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A question for believers or 'OSers'....

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posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 03:51 AM
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Originally posted by sir_slide
Isn't it one of the most important government buildings in the world?


Not really, it is just a government office building, why should it be more important than other government office buildings?




posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 03:53 AM
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What i dont understand is..... if 9/11 was commited by naughty terrorists and the os is true ( which i dont believe btw) why isnt america demanding the ppl who were employed to protect you who failed be held accoutable? Its just not acceptable imo you cant just say ah well america wasnt prepared ah well they will be next time thats just pathetic



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 05:20 AM
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It was obviously Israel, who did it, Weather America knew about it or not, 2 men that was thought to be muslim, was spotted at the Washington bridge cheering and jumping up and down as the first plane impacted, they was later arrested and found to be Israeli,

Bin laden Was dubbed in on those videos of confession it was alqedia, bin laden was never seen, after 2001 and no body can prove he was filmed after 2001, even his body disappeared faceless when america claimed to have killed him,



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 05:23 AM
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Binladen was used as a scare crow



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 07:12 AM
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You said it in your thread title. Believing is an act of choice. You can believe in a god and that explains everything or you can trust in science, which means we have yet to work out gravity.

Some people want to believe in the OS because its a nice story, just like WWE and Hollywood. The sceptics are more keen on working out what tricks the magicians used.



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 10:22 AM
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I think people believe the main points of the OS because it’s backed up by respected news outlets and the evidence presented by people in respected positions.
None of the evidence presented by the truther side comes from respected sources. Or the conclusions drawn by the truthers are flawed.

Much like your report of missile batteries protecting the pentagon. It is flat out wrong. And your conclusion that the Pentagon should be protected with active defense systems is also wrong.

According to you it was tested and it failed? Just when was this missile fired? And since it failed it must have missed its intended target drone. And since it missed its drone it must have fallen somewhere in DC. So who’s house was blown up by this errant missile?

Just who would give the OK to fire a live missile in one of the most heavily populated areas on the east coast? This is just another example of the silly premises the truthers use to prop up their beliefs in some grand conspiracy.

To my knowledge there are no active missile batteries protecting anything in the 50 states. We are not at war with any country that might attack up from the air. The military could not justify the cost to congress. And they are not going to use their regular funds for this purpose at the exclusion of other projects. Now ask yourself just when was the last attack from the air on US soil? Uhh 1941? So why do we need them now? Do you want to pay more taxes for this purpose?



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by Cassius666
 


What is the "OS"? That AQ hijackers hijacked four aircraft, crashed three into buildings, and a fourth into a field, causing the greatest loss of American life since Pearl harbor? yeah I do believe that. Because I know that there are very bad people out there that hate America, hate the West, hate anything that offends their beliefs, and are willing to die for their beliefs. To believe that only our "govt" can create such things and cause such things to happen to their own people for whatever cause, is foolish, naive, and totally ignorant. Take a good look at the violence in the Middle East.

Do I believe there was a conspiracy or some sort of cover up after 9/11? You betcha. Do I believe we were not told the whole truth? Oh yes, completely! Do I believe that our govt or govt members, or President, or VP, or some guy with a mop, in collusion with the Illuminati, Satanic Numerologists, NWO, Jews, Zionists, reptillians, Commies, Mickey Mouse Club, organized, planned and executed a Rube-Goldberg style event of faking airliners being hijacked, faking crashes with missiles and teams of stealth ninjas planting evidence, faking TV news reports and videos, rigging up kilotons of of a mix of super-dooper high powered explosives and super-dooper high power magical paint-on thin-layer supernanothermite in two occupied 110 story towers in complete secrecy, faking a crash site, faking a hijacking then shooting it down then faking a crash site and killing the passengers on a different plane and chopping up their bodies to throw into the debris, rigging up a burning leaning 47 story in record time in complete secrecy and detonating it silently, having numerous firefighters including the fire commander and police in on it and sacrificing their fellow brothers and sisters, and keeping the list of thousands complicit in the act quiet and secret all these years? HHHEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLL NOOOO!

Was there gross incompetence in our intelligence agencies prior to 9/11? Yes. Was there a cover up of this negligence, incompetence, stupidity, red-tape bureaucracy? Yes definitely. Did some one drop the ball? Yes. Should they be held responsible? Yes. Should we focus on impossible and stupid controlled demolition ideas and secret govt agents running the world, instead of finding out who ^&!$#)@ up royal in the intel world? No!



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by kaya82
 


Great!! Who do you want to hold responsible? The politicians who voted to kill funding for the missile batteries that we had around major cities in the 50s and 60s ? Maybe President George Bush (41) for cutting our Contintental Air Defenses after the Cold War, when the world was finally going to be at peace? Or the Senators and Congressmen who agreed with him and used that money for social programs? Possibly Bill Clinton for not stopping the drawdown or not killing Osama when he had the chance in the late 90s? Or do you just want to blame the generals who had to operate under the restrictions imposed on them by the politicians and also operated under the same stupid idea that we were invincible on our home turf?





Welcome back to 1941 and the post-Pearl Harbor witchhunt......



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by GenRadek
 


Therein lies your fallacy. On one hand you aknowledge there are people with little scruple, especially if they can rationalize breaking some eggs by achieving a greater good. On the other hand those people are exclusively found outside America.

A false flag operation is just that, a false flag operation. It does not equal a conspiracy.



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by sir_slide
 


Nice post.

Official story believers, do you believe that fires scattered randomly throughout WTC7, as well as falling debris damage isolated on one side of the building, can cause a symmetrical, free-fall collapse?

For the building to collapse symmetrically, the steel columns would have to be severed symmetrically, and the idea that fire could do this is insane. If the symmetrical failure of the columns was off by even 2 seconds, the building would not have fallen straight down.

I'm always told it's an assumption that explosives were used to bring down the towers, because there was fire damage in the building and it looked pretty bad. However, there is a MASSIVE assumption used by official story believers: the assumption that fires scattered randomly throughout the building caused the core columns to fail symmetrically within milliseconds of each other, meaning that they burned for the exact same amount of time at the exact same temperature in a symmetrical orientation.

The odds of fire and falling debris causing that to happen are astronomically slim; the odds of explosives causing that to happen in a controlled demolition are almost 100%.

WTC7 vs Controlled Demolition:


WTC7 free-fall collapse:



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by sir_slide
 


Pentagon is at its basic function AN OFFICE BUILDING !!!

It would have little more defenses than a large corporate headquarters

The only weapons on site are those carried by the guard force



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by TupacShakur
 


Until you wake up to reality and understand that it wasn't scattered, random fires and it wasn't just lightly damaged, you are never going to get away from your delusions about WTC 7.


Once you do wake up, you will start to realize how wrong most of the rest of your ideas about 9/11 are.



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by sir_slide
Do you flat out believe the official story for 9/11? Do you believe there is no evidence to support any other theory?

If you answered YES to either of those questions, then I am interested in what you think of the following points:

Mohamed Atta (one of the main hijackers) was a coc aine snorting, vodka drinking hedonist who spent much of his time prior to the attacks motor boating strippers and doing lines of coke off them. He had even gone into the world trade center building completely out of his mind demanding blue prints for the building and generally acting deliberately suspicious. Few problems here. Extremist Muslims, especially martyrs are likely by definition to be incredibly religious, well needless to say Atta's behavior does not seem to fit here, it seems more like the behavior of a deranged hedonist. This doesn't fit.

The hole that was left in the side of the pentagon. We are told that without a doubt, a Boeing 757 slammed into the pentagon. Well sorry but the hole is absolutely tiny and anyone who payed attention can clearly see that a Boeing 757 would make a far larger hole, and there would also be a great deal of debris laying about. Donald Rumsfeld was also seen clearing the Pentagon lawn after the 'attack', pretty odd for the secretary of defense to do that. I would also like to know how people think that the hijacker who apparently flew the pentagon plane, who could barely handle a single engine Sesler according to his American flight instructor, was able to make such difficult maneuvers and actually successfully hit the pentagon.

The pentagon is one of the most protected and secure buildings in the US. It has missile defense systems that automatically take out incoming targets, as it is a military zone and an absolute no fly zone for a 30km perimeter. So what happened? Do you really think that a 757 could make it all the way to the pentagon without having any issues? Norad's missile defense systems would have shot it out of the sky before it got anywhere near the pentagon.

Building 7. How can a building that was not hit by any plane, apparently had no explosives in it and only some tiny fires on a couple of floors collapse demolition style, in free fall? People may say that it was damaged when the towers fell. Why didn't other buildings collapse like that then?

The exercises taking place on that day. Military exercises were taking place that day that predicted the exact same situation that was took place on 9/11, a lot of fighter pilots and so forth thought that the actual attacks were an exercise so they did not respond to the threat out of confusion. Strange that, not really relevant but the same thing happened on the day of the London bombings.

The explosions. Many many people have said they heard explosions on the ground and in the basement, witnesses saw their friends killed by exploding walls in the basement. So if we listen to the hundreds of witnesses claiming to have heard explosions, then who planted the explosives, video evidence has also revealed explosive flashes occurring as the towers fall. So do you believe there were no explosives? or that the terrorists planted them and the commission was just too lazy to investigate it or?

So here is just a few things worth mentioning.

So believers and 'OSers' what do you think of these things? Do you choose to ignore them to fit your idea of what happened, deny these realities because of the grim realization that the government may have actually let this atrocity take place? Even if you don't believe it was orchestrated by the government, do you not think that they may have had prior knowledge? which has been proven by the way. If they did have prior knowledge and did just let it happen, that is almost just as bad. Even if they didn't orchestrate it, can you not believe that they may have assisted? Pulled a few strings and turned a few blind eyes so that it could happen?

I want to know how when people see the points I am about to put forward, how they can still defend the OS so consistently. Do these things not matter to you? If so it seems you're basing your judgment on a small section of the information available and are not making an informed decision.

Cheers in advance.


edit on 14-8-2011 by sir_slide because: (no reason given)


Did you see ATTA do those things? (any links)

The Pentagon walls are designed to resist explosions thats why it did not look the way you thought it would!

Who said tiny fires they burned for several hours also stucture was designed for a open foyer that proved to be a problem(like the tube in tube design of the towers) also one elevation had damage done during the tower collapse.

So there was a military exercise in London? (links)

Many structural components will make very large explosive like sound when they fail! people were under stress almost any loud noise could have been confused as an explosion!



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by wmd_2008
 




posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by samkent
 


Fair enough.

Just for the record, I didnt say it was tested and failed????????? Nothing of the sort.




We are not at war with any country that might attack up from the air


ahah really?

I don't really see your argument as holding any water. It seems very flawed, can you please provide me with some information? I really appreciate your response, although you're not helping your cause by speaking so authoritatively....



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by thedman
 


I will have to disagree, it is one of the most important military related government buildings in the world, next to the Kremlin. Come on???



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by TupacShakur
 


Thanks for the response TUPAC! Was waiting for you to appear. WTC7 is just a giant alarm bell, its interesting that no one seems to be addressing the point.



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by GenRadek
 


I don't see how you can be so middle ground? Either they were complicit or not?

What do you think about the points raised? Please address them as I'm very interested in your opinion!



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by Cassius666
reply to post by GenRadek
 


Therein lies your fallacy. On one hand you aknowledge there are people with little scruple, especially if they can rationalize breaking some eggs by achieving a greater good. On the other hand those people are exclusively found outside America.

A false flag operation is just that, a false flag operation. It does not equal a conspiracy.


Ah yes, the ol' "if some one person somewhere else can do it, then why not everyone else, and therefore, EVERYONE is guilty until proven innocent," routine.


So, How many people did AQ require to train, finance, and then hijack four aircraft and crash them? How hard would that be?

Now, how many people would it have taken to pull off 9/11 if it were to be done the way 9/11 truthers believe it to have been done? Remember, you must account for every person that would have needed to know the plan to do it, including but not limited to: the fire dept, police dept, Port authority, generals, soldiers, pilots, ticket handlers, baggage persons, inspectors, demolition crews, first responders, eyewitnesses, TV news broadcasters, investigators, FBI, CIA, NSA, NTSB, foreign security agencies, foreign national intelligence agencies, fighter pilots, maintenance workers, air traffic controllers, ASCE, NIST, President staff and cabinet........... these are about the ones I can remember off the top of my head. So yes, please, can you give me a list of all the evil people in the US that would be willing to do such a thing? because hey, if some fanatical Islamic jihadist that is willing to strap a bomb to his chest and blow up a busload of nuns in the name of Allah and Sharia, and cut off heads of unbelievers, then surely every politician, public official, security official, official official, is going to be capable of doing the same right? So give me a detailed list. I got the ball rolling for you. Keep going. Lets see how far down the rabbit hole you are willing to go until you realize that it is utterly absurd?
edit on 8/14/2011 by GenRadek because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by kaya82
 


Great!! Who do you want to hold responsible? The politicians who voted to kill funding for the missile batteries that we had around major cities in the 50s and 60s ? Maybe President George Bush (41) for cutting our Contintental Air Defenses after the Cold War, when the world was finally going to be at peace? Or the Senators and Congressmen who agreed with him and used that money for social programs? Possibly Bill Clinton for not stopping the drawdown or not killing Osama when he had the chance in the late 90s? Or do you just want to blame the generals who had to operate under the restrictions imposed on them by the politicians and also operated under the same stupid idea that we were invincible on our home turf?





Welcome back to 1941 and the post-Pearl Harbor witchhunt......
What are you rambling on about? So ur totally happy that good old america wasnt equipped enough to stop this? So you dont think anybody from your government should be held accountable?



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