ATS Survey Results: The US and Eurozone Economies

Originally posted by kalunom
I'm surprised of the blame placed on the Presidents...as if the puppets have any power to control what happens in the world. It seems that is all they are good for...being recipients of blame.

Im thinking that there responsibility is that the presidents could have at least tried to do something.Even if it ment sacrificing their careers or lives.

reply to post by kellynap43


So obviously you were one of the 3.5% to view Bush as completely innocent. Says a lot right there.

pretty much what i expected same old tune perpetuated on other forums threads time and time agian.

60 percent who blame bush ok since when does the president write laws? answer he doesnt congress does.

who has made policy since 2006 to 2010 liberal polticians .

the fact that the decline of the economy began in 1935 the great push for social engineering is what has led to this disaster and its only going to get worse.

the biggest part of this downfall is due from the federal reserve and its non stop printing and devaluation of the dollar.

bush does have some blame but not 60% its not even close to that and to those who voted for that nonsense you have listened to much mainstream bs every single thing people know about bush was pushed to destoy a man and a party so that the democrats could get into power and thats a fact.

things started going down hill in 2006 the same time the democrats got into power and created a crisis to usurp more power and boy did they ever give themselves more power.

ask yourselves if things were so bad under bush why are they still the same under 3 years of obama?
nothings changed but the perception of the facts.

i am disgusted that people fall for that 1+1=5.

unltimately tho the villian here is not those evil favorite scapegoats financial or bankers.

its those people who write and enfore banking and financial law those same people who created the federal reserve and those same people who created the consumer protection agency and those people is the us federal government who thinks their own crap doesnt stink.

in short the greatest enemy this country has ever had and will ever had is its own government.

dark days are headed agian and they will get worse but if the social engineering doesnt stop this country is lost.

Originally posted by neo96
ask yourselves if things were so bad under bush why are they still the same under 3 years of obama?

Reread what you wrote there and try to defend Bush again.

Partisan politics. Bad for the mind, body and country.

At the risk of further distancing ourselves from the truth... which is what we all ostensibly want ... I think:

A: The ideologies of division obscure the culprits, and since this is "our" economy, it is correct that we bear our share of the blame..., BUT

B: Since the political paradigm (at least in America) is about the most well-marketed candidates ($$$), the polish of PR productions ($$$), and the 'selling' of fictional characters ($$$) as somehow politically 'promising' people; they (such as - but not limited to - Bush and Obama) are properly attributed blame... if you want the glory of political celebrity status, you must accept the shame of your party's complicity in misadventure.

Many people reel against their favorite sports characters, teams, and celebrity contestants being criticized or embarrassing themselves in public.... Career Politicians are the epitome of 'images' created to secure your tender loyalties.... If you start thinking of them as they are - actors - you won't find it quite as disappointing when they appear to fumble (especially since the 'fumble' was probably planned - remember: there are no accidents in politics - everything is scripted for effect.)

C. How could the Federal Reserve Bank, and the Euro Central bankers (heck all country's central bankers) possibly NOT share the blame? They (collectively speaking) secured a legislated monopoly on monetary policy and credit ratings across the globe....

This result proves at least that many of us understand the difference between incompetence and fraud.

If we, as a collection of diverse observers with no special attributes of 'expert standing' can see what is wrong... why can't they? The simplest answer is they can... and they want it this way. (Meanwhile, and most disturbingly) the actors who can directly access the critical details and information regarding what's happening... are getting richer and richer.... it's almost obscene.

Economic royalty should have been foreseen as the middle and lower class (the actual wealth producers) were shoved closer and closer to debt serfdom. Born into debt, not able to have standing without debt, and rated as reliable financial entities based on the magnitude of our debt. Yet the rich elite are measured by the magnitude of their wealth.... Are we learning yet?

reply to post by kellynap43


Bush is still being blamed because he was the one that started the massive spending and the "war on terrorism" there is no denying he is a HUGE contributor to current financial crisis. What did people expect Obama to do honestly? Take over office and quit spending completely? That would have been a mistake also that would have lead to mass military deaths IMHO.

Anyone that thinks bush doesn't deserve to be blamed or not be held accountable for his actions should really go back and study his presidency and recent history.

reply to post by Libertynotbs


Question. Who determines the budget for the year? Who approves it? Congress! Who has been in control of congress for the past 4- 5 years? Democrats! Not saying that Bush is innocent. But there is plenty of blame to go all around. Including the left. Facts hurt, dont they?

Originally posted by TreadUpon
Wow. The "Absolute Responsibility" bars are pretty tall! Everyone thinks they absolutely know who to blame...Ha! AND it's all over the place, lol...

I agree. If we were to take a step back for a moment, we could conclude that the folks over at S&P were correct. Everyone across the spectrum is to blame for our political and financial crisis.

We live in crazy times.

Originally posted by kellynap43
reply to post by Libertynotbs

 

Question. Who determines the budget for the year? Who approves it? Congress! Who has been in control of congress for the past 4- 5 years? Democrats! Not saying that Bush is innocent. But there is plenty of blame to go all around. Including the left. Facts hurt, dont they?

Facts hurt on both sides.

I would never imagine a world where chaos was thrown at us from all directions.

Where have all the centralist politician gone to?

reply to post by XJMatt


I dont really pay attention to too many left wingers from California. Because they are left wingers from California. Enough said.

But please inform me who was responsible for the budget and approving extensions of military spending and efforts from 2002-20011? Congress. Not the president. Who has been in control for half of that time? Democrats. Please try to keep up. Like I said in previous post. Enough blame to go around for everyone. Step away from NBC for 5 minutes and you may learn something.


One more thing. Obama has spent more in his three years than every single president combined. Ouch.

Originally posted by Section31
Where have all the centralist politician gone to?

They are there but are castigated by their own party. Not "....wing" enough for their liking. Romney comes to mind.

Originally posted by kellynap43
I dont really pay attention to too many left wingers...
>snip<
One more thing. Obama has spent more in his three years than every single president combined. Ouch.

You seem to have fallen prey to the ideologically bankrupt madness wherein your automatic assumptions immediately classify anyone not "right wing" as a left winger.

Your statement on spending is false. Obama's increase in government spending has only been just over 5% of the GDP. There have been much higher increases in government spending under several previous presidents.

Only an American would think you can have a survey where you lump all European countries together. Plus the UK is actually not in the eurozone - which will help us a little.

It is really a hypothesis that many of us have no money, no job and no future from what we can see?
I would submit it's a self-evident fact at this point.
Trickle down economics really do work! - If you know that the supposed pyramid is actually inverted.
I'm afraid the next step will actually be a severe contraction of money and credit furthering the spiral down of the middle and working classes.

Originally posted by Maxmars

This result proves at least that many of us understand the difference between incompetence and fraud.

I think this sentence cuts right to the heart of the matter.

reply to post by kellynap43


Not really an "ouch" nor am I a left winger, apparently you should make fewer assumptions. Of course obama would spend more then bush, remember that Obama had to assume all the debt that bush created/helped to create , assume control and responsability for the war/s bush startled, assume all of the bush tax cuts, hand out bailouts to help the companies bush allowed to run rampant and all on his first day in office....

As I stated bush deserves a WHOLE LOTTA BLAME period no ifs and or buts...

Maybe you should do as I stated and go reread what his presidency was responsible for and recent history.

I usually. Don't make a point of listening to people from any state with a denial complex and no facts .... and that would still be true even if ibwasba so called left winger

reply to post by neo96


Neo, my friend, we have to get past this left vs. right crap.

Yes! The Democrats are to blame, they screwed it all up! But at the same time the Republicans are just as much to blame as anyone else.

We must be able to step back and realize that the political ideologies that we hold so dear are not sacred cows anymore. We must be more interested in the truth of the matter, rather than finding ways to point fingers even when we are the ones that are wrong.

I've been wrong many times and I am glad to admit that. You also must take that step to admit your faults......otherwise we just look like fools!

reply to post by sheepslayer247


pretty hard for me to not be a "partisan"

the creation of fannie and freddy and mers and the manipulation of suprimes aka mortgages all the while saying no no everythings just fine here and then created more control over that market.

the simple fact is business cant do nothing without the governments nodd now those same people who created those things is the party in power and added more power.

thats why i place a large part of the blame on them presidents come and go but congress and their laws are forever.

i never intended to post in this thread after my first post i just wanted to say my piece and move on aint nothing here that says any one of us have to agree with each other.

Its funny how people blame the credit crazed people for the state of the economy so much. If people had good jobs going in to debt with credit cards wouldn't happen nearly as much.The state of the economy forces people into debt. The government when in recession encourages people to go into debt to help stimulate the economy.

Something i can't understand .......Years ago i would stand in a queue with my bill and

the equivilant cash to pay my bills, which had subtracted the present units from the previous

units leaving the total units used @ x amount. NOW the units all have different costings and

are so complicated that it is impossible to understand and although you have no new appliances

the units you consume increase by the months. Competetion was SUPPOSED to keep the

costs down, however they are 'all in it together' and increase their prices in 'tandem' and

are making MEGA PROFITS year on year. Added to this the consumer pays a 'tax' for 'the

green issue and for modernising and improvement, many years ago the gross profits were

used for this leaving companies with a more acceptable nett profit.

Why does the head of a council get paid (in some cases) twice as much as the Prime Minister

i'm sure this wasn't the case 40 or so years ago. It has been reported that when asked they

say their job is a very important and difficult and "they are worth the expense"..BUT they are

only head of a small council (even a large one is much smaller than the country) and the Prime

Minister is head of he WHOLE country! After all they are only glorified accountants and there are

thousands of women running 'home budgets' much more efficiently.

Then there's Brussels and Strasburg fabulous EXPENSIVE buildings and office's, untold

expences ( very expensive wall papers, furniture lighting, carpets et al) bleeding the ordinary

people with tax's to pay for all this luxuary. None of this extravance is needed to know the

math to balance the budget! It could even be done from home, after all how many GOOD

COMPETENT ACCOUNTANTS could be employed on the salaries, bonus's and expences of

these overpaid overfed bureaucrat's ( or in the words of some ATS'ers ) 'TPTB'. After all

if an accountant doesn't do a good job he can be sacked, not so easy to get rid of the heads

of state once they get their' feet under the table' I say cut from the top ..........

"too many chiefs and not enough indians!"