U.S. loses AAA credit rating from S&P

Originally posted by SaturnFX
The horse is dead, stop trying to ride it...talk like an adult about the issue and stop looking through the blinders of neoconservate idealism already...or at least get some better pom poms if you demand on being just a cheerleader of a failed team.

Okay. I'm typing in a deeper voice.
10% would work, if you cut entitlements. If you cut government spending. If you cut earmarks,redundant departments, and waste. The tax code could be 3 pages long and it'd be easy enough for a congressman to understand.
Square peg/round hole. Okay. There is not a single country that fit into a neat definition or classification. Each country is unique. America? They think differently, were raised differently, have a different mindset than most europeans. Just taking/adopting another countries model for America is a failure before the inception. Capitalism works the same way. In each and every country hat America has brought free market to, there have been adaptations, adjustments, and customizing.
America is in for a rough time. How it emerges from this will define it for years/decades to come.

WOW!

(Reuters) - Business minister Vince Cable on Saturday backed China's call for a new stable global reserve currency in light of the United States losing its AAA long-term credit rating from Standard & Poor's, but said for the moment the U.S. dollar still remained key.

Cables says new reserve currency sensible

Big move. First officials outside the BRIC's to recommend a possible change to the international currency regimes. Cable goes on to mention the use of SDR's

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Two thoughts I have been tossing around tonight while I was salmon fishing & meditating on the week's news...

1. Legal action needs to be brought against every member of Congress, the Senate, the treasury, Federal Reserve, and Obama himself for actions in violation of the 14th Amendment. News flash worthless DC supernothings: You just caused a whole lot of questions about the validity of the US' debt. Every US tax payer should right now be questioning exactly why there is any validity in the jacked up interest rates you supernothings have brought down on us.

2. WHERE IN THE HELL IS THE PRESIDENT!?!?!?
Someone needs to inform him that part of the figurehead position he begged the American voters to elect him to is actually standing at the head of the crowd putting forth the illusion of being a strong figure. Unfortunately, we've got another absentee act pulled off by a US president during a time of great upheaval. Why am I having flashbacks to the early days of the Macondo oil disaster when Obama was nowhere to be seen? I realize the guy has difficulty speaking without his teleprompter, but how long does it take his squadron of speech writers to prepare a few words of encouragement for him to majestically deliver to the pleebs over the airwaves? Oh wait, that's right... he's frollicking with family and donors at Camp David AGAIN and cannot be bothered with the day to day triffles he was elected to deal with.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

and they yelled at bush for sitting in that kids classroom what nerve they have i say

I think they're gearing up for the introduction of the petro dollar.

reply to post by SaturnFX


One of the key things is fixing tax loop holes. When you say 40/20/0...do you believe they will really pay 40%?

Why do companies like Exxon get MASSIVE tax breaks, when they continue to make billions and ship jobs offshore? Since getting those tax incentives, they haven't even created new jobs, they shipped more off-shore. And before anyone says "it keep fuel prices low"...have you looked at the price of oil since those tax incentives kicked in? LINK

What's happening right now in the US is almost criminal...it's a redistribution of wealth on a massive scale.

Who got more money since 2000:

1) The top 1% had a drastic reduction in taxes...this added almost $3 TRILLION (!!!) to the deficit between 2000 and 2008 alone. And since those tax breaks are still in place, we now added another trillion or so to it since Obama came to power. It's the largest single policy contributor to the deficit!!

2) Another $3.9 trillion (!!!) were shipped over to defence contractors and the military lobbyists.

And the US solution to this?

Cut social security (self funding until at least 2035...money YOU paid into your whole life), and spending in ridiculous areas such as the FAA, therefore directly endangering not only the safety of the US people, but also harming consumer spending. Harming consumer spending in a time of economic trouble is like shooting yourself in the foot...investors realize this now, which is another reason why the stock market tanked on Friday.

In short, it's pretty clear US politicians are by now all bought, all of them. They don't have the best interest of their country in mind, and tbh, I don't see this changing anytime soon...not unless the people wake up and stop buying into clueless slogans anymore.

Originally posted by infinite

WOW!

(Reuters) - Business minister Vince Cable on Saturday backed China's call for a new stable global reserve currency in light of the United States losing its AAA long-term credit rating from Standard & Poor's, but said for the moment the U.S. dollar still remained key.

Cables says new reserve currency sensible

Big move. First officials outside the BRIC's to recommend a possible change to the international currency regimes. Cable goes on to mention the use of SDR's

A new reserve currency WILL happen. This crisis makes it abundantly clear why having a reserve currency based on a single currency is disastrous. Why? Because if that country's economy tanks, it pulls the entire world economy down on a massive scale.
Last time the reserve currency was replaced (Sterling), it dropped 80% in value. THAT'S why the US really needs to get its house in order before that happens. If they're still in a crisis with a massive deficit, and then loose 50-80% of their currency's value, it will be horrible for its people. Yet most seem to ignore that completely.

reply to post by infinite


The IMF is the bank for nation building and War on Terror. The USAID and DOD both put money into the IMF for the nation building and war projects over seas. The US pulled out of Libya because we did not want to go down that road. France decided to go down that road and tried to drag the US through NATO. The US said no. France then tried to power house the money in the IMF who holds the purse strings. The US arrested Dominique Strauss-Kahn the French guy in charge of the IMF on rape charges. And theres still a fight to see who will control the money in the IMF. Christine Lagarde is being investigated now.

www.fijitimes.com...

reply to post by DoctorSatan


Don't worry about your punctuation my friend. You are correct. Apparently no one seems to have heard of the "military industrial complex". The defence contracts for the new generation of whatevers weapons needed have years to run. Cuts and taxes are in order. The taxes are to put a dent in the defict only.

We will see how many of the rich really love the USA when they have to pay up more to bring down the deficit.

.

It actually doesn't matter much what we do overall actually.

Not to go fully off topic, but it is something relevant to the whole crashing world...
Foxxcon, the worlds largest electronics manufacturer (they make things like apple products, dell products, etc...chances are you have several things made by them) is based in china and hire millions of chinese due to cheap labor

They are the microsoft of manufacturing...so, take note here...what they do is adopted by many others

Cheap labor isn’t cheap enough for the world’s largest electronics manufacturer. Terry Gou, the CEO of Foxconn recently told employees that they would be replacing human workers with one million robots over the next three years. These robots would handle many basic manufacturing tasks such as spraying, welding, and assembly.

So here is the overall issue
Robots will be taking over...the "problem" with outsourcing will soon be a distant dream...now even cheap slave labor will not be needed as all our jobs goes to machines.
in 20 years, the job market will be very slim...robots work 24/7 for free, the rapid advancement will eliminate more and more entire fields...so, we are basically arguing about the best way to create fire, some are screaming its rubbing sticks, others are screaming its flint and rock...meanwhile, the lightbulb is being installed everywhere, so us firemakers are pretty redundant now.

I did make a thread about it
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Yet it seems it wasn't important enough...here is the deal though, the system of capitalism will collapse completely, this is an absolute statement...we can perhaps degrade our existance in desperation to equal 3rd world slave labor camps to get jobs back, but we cannot work like robots...so, the game is over.

What will be the result when only a small handful of people are employed in this nation? Someone tell me please...imagine a 75% unemployment rate...what then? anyone care to answer?

reply to post by SaturnFX

10%
you lost your mind...we could barely pave roads for that amount....much less support a standing military.

You may not be dumb - but this statement is.

The U.S. spends less than 200 billion on domestic infrastructure, and less than 900 billion on -every- expense within the military (for some reason, people like to add the interest of deficit military spending to the bottom line while excluding it from medicare estimates.... even though interest is handled under a separate part of the budget).

A 22% tax increase -WITH- a tax-prebate repaid to the poverty level was designed to be revenue-neutral - with our current non-SSI revenues at about 2.4 Trillion dollars (or something along those lines).

An across-the-board 10% tax with no prebate would easily pay for our infrastructure and military while it is in the course of fighting three wars abroad.

Seriously - I know we are on opposite sides of the spectrum a lot of times, Saturn - but you are better than the statement you just made.

However, if that was instituted, you know who would suffer the most? businesses...not because the rich are taxed though, hell, they can afford it...its because the middle and poor are also robbed of their spending power...which means they don't buy random crap, which means companys manufacture less and therefore sell less, firing people, etc.

That is why the Fair Tax proposal includes a prebate. Cost of living is taken into account and the taxes spent on sustaining one's self (or family) at the poverty level are paid up front for the fiscal year. In this way, it creates a natural graded tax system where those at the poverty level do not pay taxes on food and necessities while those who -spend- more are taxed according to their amount of spending - up to about 22%. Under this system - income taxes are removed and all monies are tax-deferred until used to purchase something - which no longer penalizes those wishing to save.

Rich people do -not- create jobs
companys do -not- create jobs
Demand does...and thats it...demand comes from middle class with extra money to burn...every economist around the world will tell you that (that isn't just a paid liar for a corporation).

It's a chicken-and-egg concept. There's massive amounts of demand for food in places like Egypt. I don't see a whole lot of people there investing in creating farms. Of course - they also don't have a whole lot of extra money to spend (though you would think food would come before most other expenses).

In either case - you need someone with the resources to organize and develop a business to provide a job and a service/good that will have favorable demand (there wasn't a demand for fast food restaurants, outright - people just gravitated towards places they could get food and get it quickly).

I honestly couldn't care less what an economist says. Their view is factored into my analysis of the situation against the observable trends in the economy.

We are now a AA+ ratings society...we are doing something wrong...yet the AAA societys are all heavy social program countrys...thats just the facts. We are in this mess due to unfunded entitlement programs...

You're better than this Saturn. Don't make me downgrade your intelligence rating.

The reason our CREDIT rating has gone DOWN is because of the amount of money being borrowed against itself in our country. The federal government has authorized the government to have a debt greater than our nation's GDP.

Perhaps you don't quite understand how money works in America - or anywhere else - but every time the government "borrows" money, it effectively prints more money without a marked increase in taxable economic activity. When you compare the relative prices of food and precious metals to housing prices and the like - you often see a correlation - IE - the price of gold goes up at roughly the same ratio as the price of food - though gold is more subject to microeconomic activity (rising and falling considerably within weeks even though the annual average trend shows little change). In either case - the point is that the dollar as fiat currency is levied against our productivity.

When Congress authorizes an increase in the debt ceiling - what they are doing is authorizing there to be more dollars floating around in the market with no real change in the actual productivity in America. For a short duration - that can stimulate economic activity as the economy has yet to adjust to the inflation of the dollar. However, over long periods of time and after being adopted as a standard practice, it simply leads to inflation - where you need two dollars to buy a loaf of bread as opposed to one - because there are twice as many dollars floating around out there without there being really any change in how many loaves of bread are made, how much iron ore is mined and exported, etc.

So - what congress just did was write yet another check that it cannot cash. In the REAL world - what is being done is looking at our economy and saying: "If this keeps up - the American Dollar will not be worth more than the paper it is printed on." It is, essentially, saying that America's government cannot be considered a responsible and trustworthy financial institution.

It is not an effect of unfunded entitlement programs. It is an effect of spending far more than we take in. Nothing more - nothing less.

However - I will say that healthcare spending on behalf of the federal government has increased several fold over the past 20 years - while military spending has remained about the same as it always has through history (around 4% of GDP). So - if you want to stop and ask yourself: "what are we doing, now, that we didn't do in the past 200 years of being a country...?" - it would be the expansion of entitlement programs as part of the federal budget.

Which would seem to indicate that spending (on entitlement programs - though the fact they are entitlement programs really isn't much of a factor in the overall credit rating) is what got us into this mess.

The logical fix for this is to prioritize and decrease spending.

reply to post by SaturnFX


do you have a problem with the us constitution saturn?

all taxes must be uniform throughout this land followed by property rights and minority rights.

no person is above the law everyone pays and thats the law.

AA+ is still very good

Greece is at CC, even though USA has almost same debt per citizen

Click here for more information.

reply to post by deadmessiah


Name ONE thing that is made in China by an American corporation??? go on just ONE!

For those who aren't really sure what's happening to the economy and why, here are a few GREAT videos that explain just that...they're recent too!



The above video explains EXACTLY what's going on...

reply to post by Aim64C


A tax on consumption makes sense to me in general terms. I have looked at wikipedia but I really need to have someone explain this in greater detail. Tax is never that simple as all manner of exceptions and tinkerings arise due to the government intervening.

I need to know exactly how the prebate would work hopefully with some figures.

The simple fact for me is that it seems like a new idea. The old ideas do not seem to be working...

reply to post by SaturnFX


As your post reiterated to: 1 million jobs in China will be replaced within the next three years. China is indeed on the way to its own rude awakening. When you can no longer have slave labor and the slave doesn't eat, the slave will get mad.

As for the USA, I read the Cable link...I see how no one mentions the last line of the article...

"In the short run, the United States dollar is the key international currency and although, frankly, the American legislators made a terrible mess of things a few weeks ago, they have now got back on track, they have undertaken to manage their debt in a prudent way,"

ATS is the doomsday website and so many of you fail to remember that we did not go into default. Now of course there is more writing on the wall that is relevant to an economic collapse but there is hope.

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
reply to post by deadmessiah

 

Name ONE thing that is made in China by an American corporation??? go on just ONE!

Mhhhh...iPods, iPhones, iPads, Macs, most LCD screens, tons of other electronics, your underwear most likely...

I still think the plan was to have a democrat (Bill Clinton) abolish the Glass & Steagall Act of 1932, which saw to the regulation of the stock market. By having a democrat abolish regulation with a republican following him into office and start a war, then another democrat come into office after that and bail-out everyone, there is mass confusion as to whose fault this is. All according to plan.


Edit - And not to forget.....all great powers must come to an end. It just sucks for us we had to be here for it.

Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by burdman30ott6

 

What?

Suprise!!! Hoodwinked again!

I thought this was the reason for the Super Congress?

Remember, Obama pleaded....

With the clock ticking, Obama warned of the dire consequences of failing to raise the debt ceiling and said the U.S. is in danger of losing its AAA credit rating over political squabbling.

“We could lose our country's AAA credit rating; not because we didn't have the capacity to pay our bills -- we do -- but because we didn't have a AAA political system to match our AAA credit rating,” he said.blogs.abcnews.com...

You mean to tell me that the Super Congress creation failed already...in premise?

The Zionists said the same thing when they created the Federal Reserve, it was suppose to give us more economic safety and stop any economic depressions to happen. Of course, these same people after gaining control of our economy, made the Great Depression happen. This is how Jews work, they create a problem just to give people a solution, like what the have done in everything single Revolution, like the Arab one.