U.S. loses AAA credit rating from S&P

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers.

The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises...but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States...

No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken. This clause basically refers to a tax on property, such as a tax based on the value of land,[2] as well as a capitation.

yeah i read it and money is property and sounds like what i said cant take property aka money from one person and not take it from others.

Not sure what your seeing.
Duties, excises, etc...they are uniform, but the taxes are progressive.
the tax based on the value of land is also approprately exercised...

If it was currently unconstitutional, it would simply not be enacted...remember, the constitution includes all amendments, you can't simply pick and choose...
But ya, I am not seeing any issue your seeing...wording is important, don't try to pretend you know the "spirit" of the law, law is details...read the actual wording..if a word is left out (in this case, taxes), then it was intentionally left out.

reply to post by SaturnFX


what i see is half the country paying taxes and a minority group(around 9 million) are constantly being nickled and dimed for the majority.

people yell at the bush cuts but theres over 3 trillion in middle class tax cuts and hey we all know the poor doesnt pay taxes.

the current system of american taxation is nothing but unconstitututional.

taxation without representation all those millionaire and billionaires and those people who employ the middle class.

everyone pays a fat tax and noone gets out of it.

Originally posted by DrakeDarc
I have a feeling the Survival forum is going to get a lot more action in the coming weeks. Seems were making 2012 happen unconsciously. Its sad. I hate self fulfilling prophecies, its sad... I just hope something happens to put us back on the right path to a greater world...

YUP, come on America we come from tough stock from all over the planet, we are survivors,

Get off your duffs and make it happen.[

In my opinion this is just another Bankster hack job.
I mean who is S&P in bed with anyway.
Who did they conspire with in the mortgage fraud scheme.
So they down grade the US and guess what.
Now the Banksters can reap billions off higher interest.
If the Banks had raised the rates on their own there would have been a nationwide condemnation.
This way they can do it underneath the smoke screen.
I'm not saying we as a nation don't deserve the AA+ rating.
I'm just saying this is their motivation.
It's now US or Them.
Lets get rid of them shall we?

No Bankster job at all. We don't do our homework so we will have to pay more interest in the future. Higher probability of default, higher interest rates. Where is the bankster "job"?? The solution is easier...let's just don't send our kids to war. Do you guys know how much the DOD budget accounts for the deficit?

The bailout has totaly corrupted everything with economics.

Originally posted by shaq76
No Bankster job at all. We don't do our homework so we will have to pay more interest in the future. Higher probability of default, higher interest rates. Where is the bankster "job"?? The solution is easier...let's just don't send our kids to war. Do you guys know how much the DOD budget accounts for the deficit?

Have you seen S&P's track record lately.
Enron, Worldcom, Bear sterns. Lehman bros.
These crooks were not down graded by S&P.
Why?
There is money to be made here.
Follow the money and you will find the motivation.
No Bankster job It's ALL a Bankster job or have you been off planet for a while?

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Currency devaluation has several adverse consequences on a state and so historically has rarely been a preferred strategy. According to economist Richard N. Cooper writing in 1971, a substantial devaluation is one of the most "traumatic" policies a government can adopt – it almost always results in cries of outrage and calls for the government to be replaced.

Open civil war is on the horizon!

George Soros knew S&P was going to downgrade America's credit rating. Last week he decided to return money to outside investors in his $25 billion hedge fund. He's was getting ready for the mayhem that will follow. He's didn't get rich being stupid.

Iconic billionaire George Soros has decided to return money to outside investors in his $25 billion hedge fund after more than four decades at the helm. While most of the assets under management are his and will remain active -- and we can't blame the man for downshifting at the spry age of 81 -- his decision is yet another building block in the new world investing order.

George Soros, speaking last summer at a conference in Vienna, offered, "The collapse of the financial system as we know it is real and the crisis is far from over. Indeed, we have just entered Act II of the drama."

Sun-tzu once said, "If your enemy is superior, evade him. If angry, irritate him. If equally matched, fight, and if not, split and reevaluate." As we navigate this socioeconomic maelstrom, an increasing number of people are weighing their options -- and some of the smarter folks are either going dark, as Stan Druckenmiller did last year. Or they're painting themselves a darker shade of gray, as per Mr. Soros.
Y! Finance article

Watch what Soros does and you'll know in what direction things are heading.

There was a lot of speculation about the reasons legendary money manager George Soros recently announced he was shutting down his hedge fund and sending investors their money back.

If one of the most successful hedge fund managers of all time is hanging it up in current market conditions, what does that say for the future of all of the open-end mutual funds and exchange-traded funds that have "alternative" or hedge-like characteristics?
Source article

Here's another person paying attention to George Soros' money;


Ahhhhh the maddness!

Originally posted by guessing
I am sad. sad that my children will not know what it was like to eat fresh food and have a roof over their heads.

I understand that once the rating slips, it is very hard to get it back.

There will have to be an earthquake or something in the next few days to divert this news.

edit on 5-8-2011 by guessing because: of all things... spelling

Sorry, how will this stop your children eating fresh food? What is the point of your post, surely you grow fresh food in your country.

Originally posted by neo96
hey what do you give the potus for his birthday?

a downgrade in our credit rating and all it took was 14 trillion dollars.

i feel so honored to have contributed i think we all should.

lets give it up for our most glorious leader

happy birthday!!! not!

soup lines form other there ----->

this is how far we have fallen and we still have a ways to go.

You are blaming Obama for a mess that started many generations ago. I know that suits you, but this didn't start in the last two or three years

reply to post by something wicked


Yes. But, the downgrading happened on the incumbent President's watch...in the history books it will be part of HIS legacy. He does so like being first...hope he enjoys this one. Methinks he'll have many more in the next two years.

Des

Link: S&P: U.S. Faces Further Downgrade Beyond AA+

“If you get to $4 trillion mentioned by the President in an April 13 speech, by the Bowles-Simpson commission and by Congressman Paul Ryan, that along with economic growth would’ve done the trick” to preserve the triple-A, he told Cavuto.

S&P officials in Europe "concurred" with S&P’s decision. All agreed "we were looking for $4 trillion in cuts" a source close to the matter says.

By 2021 though, around 80% of expenditures will be for Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Defense and Interest on the debt, up from less than 70% today, he says. “Perhaps the super committee will now be pressured to tackle some of the more systemic issues in the deficit,” Greenhaus says.

Ouch.

Sometimes reality is hard to swallow.

Why do I want to suddenly punch someone in the face?



Wait! S&P agrees with Paul Ryan? Tea-Party is winning the debate?



Holy crap. This is the best slap in the face of Obama that I have ever seen.

Heres another reason most people over look the DOD chopping block and its cost as a result of the down grade. The cost are not all in the budget. Heres a quick look at how to hide the DOD budget from the budget.

www.ng.mil...

(except members of the Reserve provided for elsewhere),

The DOD gives a 25 billion dollar budget to reserve and national gaurd. 500 million each state. Not in the DODs budget. But thats not all of the cost no. The states also pay for that unmentioned budget.

www.ebudget.ca.gov...

All Funds: 2011-12*
Total Dollars $157,580
Total Personnel
Years 768.5

Major Program Changes
Programs
3-Yr Expenditures & Personnel Years
Infrastructure Overview
Printable Budget Documents
Additional Information

General Government
* Dollars in thousands.

$157,580 does not seem to be much until you read the foot note of add three zeros to the dollar amount. Califorinias cost $157,580,000. No womder states are broke. So the states whole cost added with the $500,000,000 from the federal government. $657,580,000 dollars for the war on terror and wars by the DOD per state. $32,879,000,000 if you multiply that by 50 states. So you 33 billion hidden right there, and the cost of alot of that comes from the budgets of different states not the federal government. That does not even touch the agencies like FBI,CIA and so on. Or even the cost of your local city police or sheriff departments. Or even the 58 billion I showed you earlier that the USAID took over from the DOD. And don't forget the DOD budget was raised as they hid there cost in other agencies or even in the budgets of states. The War on Terror is breaking the piggy bank.

So now you know why the graph shows a leveling off of the increase in military spending. Its not its just being shifted as the cost keep getting bigger.

HOSED and Plugged:

We heard if the R's and D's did not get the debt ceiling raised we would see our credit rating lowered, and we would see a 2nd recession run.

The Sorry Ba_____d's had a cheese eating agreement before the deadline. A deadline that most people did not want anyway. Most said let the chips fall and we will do what is necessary to make the US economically better.

They made their agreement before the "drop dead date". They got their debt ceiling raised so they could borrow and spend more money. Fed it to us saying it is a good deal, we got tax cuts in exchange for letting them spend more money> BS BS BS

We got HOSED. We got a down grade in credit ratings, which is what the DEAL was to prevent.

We are watching our 401Ks and savings head south like in 2008. All the time remembering "WE GOT TO AGREE TO RAISE THE DEBT CEILING OR ELSE WE WILL FACE UNIMAGINED HARDSHIPS" BS

We got HOSED> To bad we cannot make congress take a 55% pay cut immediately and revoke their health care and savings to match what the general population has. To bad we cannot cut the presidents salary to $0 for allowing this to happen. He should have said no raising of the debt ceiling, lets fix our problems. He now has the opportunity to immediately pull us out of this hole. Start immediately allowing all drilling everywhere to commence. We all go to work, we get cheaper energy, and we temporarily solve the mess we are headed into.

The time is now to take care of our own. But most likely no one will do anything but run off at the mouth.

Maybe the Aliens will land and we can at least move on to a more interesting and less depressing topic

Originally posted by BlackOps719
It finally happened.

Never thought I would live to see this. Bad......just bad.

This may be the beginning of the end.

We knew this a long time ago and i think that this is done by the same reason we all feel.
The US finally HAVE to start changing the tax policy and cut spending on every part of the budget.


The downgrade, S&P said, "reflects our opinion that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the administration recently agreed to falls short of what, in our view, would be necessary to stabilize the government's medium-term debt dynamics."
It's those medium- and long-term debt problems that also worry economics professor Laurence J. Kotlikoff, who served as a senior economist on President Ronald Reagan's Council of Economic Advisers. He says the national debt, which the U.S. Treasury has accounted at about $14 trillion, is just the tip of the iceberg.
"We have all these unofficial debts that are massive compared to the official debt," Kotlikoff tells David Greene, guest host of weekends on All Things Considered. "We're focused just on the official debt, so we're trying to balance the wrong books."
Kotlikoff explains that America's "unofficial" payment obligations, like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid benefits, jack up the debt figure substantially.
from npr.org
m.npr.org...
Could be 211 trillion??

reply to post by sliceNodice


honestly most people don't even know this is happening

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
reply to post by deadmessiah

 

Name ONE thing that is made in China by an American corporation??? go on just ONE!

How about the funniest thing in addition to the others listed.

www.fmaa-usa.com...

$2.5m worth of flags per year.

woohoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

best news i have heard all day china today says the us can no longer borrow from them.

theres that silverlining the us has to sink or swim on its own.

This doesn't surprise me. The value of the dollar and our economy has been slipping for a while now so it was only a matter of time before this happened. Hell it was only a few days ago that we were on the verge of a default. Technically we still are considering the fact that they've only put a band-aid on the wound instead of actually disinfecting it.