U.S. loses AAA credit rating from S&P

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
Monday's market is gonna be a brutal demonstration of why this country made a woefull series of terrible mistakes in leadership election over the past decade and why "We the People" will be the ultimate losers in the whole game.

Any who know Me know that I seldom make predictions. I have been watching things and with the way the knife sliced yesterday, I am going out on a limb and suggest that the corpse will collapse Monday. Black Friday? Be prepared for a plummet into pitch on Monday.

Those last deficit discussions were a test from the global community! Can the US be reasonable and reduce their deficit in a meaningful way, or are the politics there so messed up, no real solutions will ever happen.

The US politicians made it clear that option 2 is the case, so the world responded with "you suck and are clueless when it comes to economics". Sounds fair to me! Maybe now they feel the pressure to not act like poo flinging monkeys and rather like true leaders.

As long as there's no revenue increases (fix corporate tax loop holes, remove the Bush tax cuts, etc.) it's pretty clear the US never really thought about reducing the deficit in a meaningful way. That means the world can't trust the US economically, and their cost of borrowing will go up. Makes total sense, you wouldn't lend someone you don't really trust money at the best interest rate

Do we have a problem here? Still no.1 in the world export market. Meaning we carry the most weight,get the most people taken care of.

Originally posted by digihome92
reply to post by Wrath5639

 

Im from the UK and i don't understand what this means accept that its bad. Will this effect theUK in any way because i understand we are doing terribly financially too.

hang on to the queen, you'll need the tourists.
might consider adds in Brazil and China, they have money.
and they can buy your silly hats.lol.
your land rovers, rolls royce, etc.

you'll adjust to selling to the countries where the citizens have more cash.
the whole world is not broke, not even all americans.

from what i understand, the financial sector provides 20% of jobs in UK, expect layoffs.
your hedge funds could be in trouble in the long run.

for an individual, same as here, pay off debt and reduce cost of living.

reply to post by Centurionx


They mostly come at night....

Mostly.

It's the boiling frog technique and everyone is falling for it. If you throw a frog in a boiling pot of water (Take everything away at once) the frog will jump out of the pot (revolution). However, If you place the fog in a cold pot of water and gradually heat it until it boils (Take away things one by one) then the frog will surely stay in the pot until it is cooked (Slavery).

M point being America, we are being cooked, slowly.

reply to post by gossipnancy


If we are numero uno in the export market, why does everything you buy say "Made in CHINA"?

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

To adopt a european model just won't work. (square peg/round hole) A fair tax, say 10% across the board would. No exceptions, no loopholes. If you make 10,000 or 10 million, you pay.
Then, and only then, would I even consider talking entitlements, funded or otherwise.

10%
you lost your mind...we could barely pave roads for that amount....much less support a standing military.

Now, a straight across the board I am not opposed to, but ya, kick it up to 30%.

However, if that was instituted, you know who would suffer the most? businesses...not because the rich are taxed though, hell, they can afford it...its because the middle and poor are also robbed of their spending power...which means they don't buy random crap, which means companys manufacture less and therefore sell less, firing people, etc.

So

You would eventually start again with the sliding scale...removing tax burdens from the middle and lower class in order to stimuate the economy with frivilous spending...everyone benefits when joe the plumber has some extra money to spend on nonsense stuff...because he does spend it...

The sliding scale progressive tax rate wasn't just thought up to punish the rich...frankly, it is to ensure the rich become richer by allowing buying power

Rich people do -not- create jobs
companys do -not- create jobs
Demand does...and thats it...demand comes from middle class with extra money to burn...every economist around the world will tell you that (that isn't just a paid liar for a corporation).

As far as the square peg/round hole. I disagree. I think if we do things intelligently, systems like northern europe can be implemented...perhaps not perfectly, but much better than the extra spending and less taxes nonsense we got going on today...
We are now a AA+ ratings society...we are doing something wrong...yet the AAA societys are all heavy social program countrys...thats just the facts. We are in this mess due to unfunded entitlement programs...


Consider entitlements...ok, so Fred gets some exceptionally cheap healthcare through the gubment...great, he saves tons of money...and with that money he saves, he purchases a bunch of stuff from the stores, which in turn stimulates the economy..
Or, he has no healthcare, and pays every single cent he makes for the next 20 years to the insurance corporations whom tuck all their money away anyhow overseas and pays little to no taxes. Sorry, that dog doesn't hunt and the rapid deterioration of the country is hard proof of that.

This crappy corporatists old world order simply is not working...its broken, Greenspan himself said there is a flaw in his capitalist model (gee, go figure, capitalism turns to greedy corporatism)..yet people are still cheering Greenspan's model while ignoring his correction.

The horse is dead, stop trying to ride it...talk like an adult about the issue and stop looking through the blinders of neoconservate idealism already...or at least get some better pom poms if you demand on being just a cheerleader of a failed team.

reply to post by burdman30ott6
How can a country have any credit rateing when the tax taken in is 100% of the money owed out.Also if a government has proven to the people that it is incapable of spending cuts looking into the face of credit down grades,what makes people think they will use a tax hike to correct the problem??

How about asking the credit raters what they think is enough.If they can down grade a countrys rateing they must know what it would take to reinstate it.

Originally posted by Vortiki
reply to post by gossipnancy

 

If we are numero uno in the export market, why does everything you buy say "Made in CHINA"?

Ah, but made in China by American corporations

Originally posted by Vortiki
reply to post by gossipnancy

 

If we are numero uno in the export market, why does everything you buy say "Made in CHINA"?

Numero Uno in exporting jobs most likely.

Condoleezza Rice - when only AAA will do.

"Condoleezza Rice for President in 2012. Join this group of supporters from everywhere on the world wide web."

Rice for President Yahoo Group
groups.yahoo.com...

Whoever proposed a 10% flat tax is INSANE!!! Your solution to the deficit is to further reduce tax income? Really?

Who's gonna take care of roads? Or airport security? Who's gonna pay the cops and firemen saving you from harm? Because the 10% won't cover that for sure

Can people PLEASE start reading up on economics, because ideas like the 10% flat tax are a prime example of a failing education system

Hate to sound all doomsday'y but the Hopi did kinda predict the downfall of America.

I stilll say its all because of the slice from DOD. Yes the global markets showed there dislike to the War on Terror losing funding. Did you know were funding two DODs now. SOCOM has turned into its own DOD. It gets its black budget, its own purchasing agents, its own lobbist, its own R&D department, even its own contractors(Xe and so on) to fight its only war the War on Terror which is in 120 countries. The regular DOD uses the braches of the military and does nation building and war in Iraq and Afgahnistan. SOCOM is using the private contractors omany countries as its own private army. France, Germany,Uk, so on. With the debt deal that put DOD on the chopping block put those countries income in jeopardy. Not to count all the nation building of other countries in jeopardy. The EU showed there fear and it came to our stock market following there drop. Obama jumping on the phone with France and Germany should hint at what to look at. Two key players of the wars and the secret wars. I list those seperately beause they are DOD and SOCOM. The next deal that is suppoesed to be made about the debt will not happen and they know it. And when it does not happen the DOD is on the chopping block again. And do you think the US will give up its own DOD for the worlds SOCOM DOD? They don't think so either. The War on Terror money will be cut and nation building money will be cut. Crashing markets in many countries do to the money being in 120 countries.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Whoever proposed a 10% flat tax is INSANE!!! Your solution to the deficit is to further reduce tax income? Really?

Thats just Beezer...I think he posts things just to get a rise out of people.
I am thinking he is less rush limbaugh and more stephen colbert frankly, some things are simply outlandish and clearly, painfully flawed...which means, considering he is a clever chap, that he can't be taking himself seriously.


Anyhow, yes...the difference between a developed nation and a 3rd world hellhole nation is a comprehensive strong tax policy (and trademarks). With that in place, a nation grows. When that fails, so does a nation...That much is pretty clear.

The debate is now over entitlement programs verses tax rate...simply put, if you put an entitlement program in place, it raises the general quality of life across the board, but it must be paid for, period. Somewhere along the line, we forgot that as a nation and now are going down the same path as some other nations that tried to install mega programs for a better nation without paying for it...
I support entitlement programs, I want to see the USA become a great nation by any standard, I want our poorest to be likened to a rich person in 3rd world countrys...I want the nation to be the shining city on the hill and all that, and with that desire, I see the need for a strong progressive tax policy.

I think 40/20/0 is a good practice for all personally...

Can someone please explain what this exactly means for the US and its people, in layman's terms?

reply to post by jhn7537

Simple explanation.
They raised your interest rates on everything.

I'm looking into an interview, by a British government minister, on the BBC earlier. Trying to find the transcript.

Vince Cable (Minister for Business) mentioned the 'Special Drawing Rights' of the IMF as an alternative to the Dollar, as a reserve currency.

Originally posted by jhn7537
Can someone please explain what this exactly means for the US and its people, in layman's terms?

edit on 6-8-2011 by jhn7537 because: (no reason given)

the USA is a household
We just maxed out the credit cards and was late on a payment...our credit rating dropped, now we got to pay more interest overall.

So ya, there you go...

You want a loan to buy a house, you go to a bank, the bank borrows money also to loan to you...the bank has to pay more interest, therefore you pay a lot more interest...