It all Boils Down to Faith

reply to post by TupacShakur

You made the thread, I'm participating in the discussion. What do you expect when you make a religious thread? Only the people that agree with you will post, and those who disagree will not post?

I expect open discussion, including those who disagree, what I don't expect is rudeness.

Originally posted by Watts

Actually even atheism boils down to faith. They're putting all their eggs in the basket that says "there is no god therefore I can do whatever I want because I will never have to pay for any wrong doings or face any punishment for how I lived my life.".. so really its all faith.

You don't understand atheism. We don't choose to not believe in a supreme being so that we can do whatever we want. For example, I don't believe that gods exist. I don't go around killing, stealing, raping, etc. The church I used to attend had a married couple who were the youth ministers. He is a believer in god. He had an affair. There was also a deacon who attended strip clubs. So, I could use your logic and say, "People believe in god so they can run around and do what they want then ask to be forgiven."

I'm an atheist, like many others, who doesn't say that gods do not exist as a positive claim. I just don't believe they do, but they could. Likewise, I don't believe fairies exist, or Bigfoot, but they possibly could.

Meh, now I see this has already been covered by others. Sorry.

reply to post by TupacShakur

If you were born in Afghanistan, Somalia, China, Vietnam, or Thailand, would you have investigated the religion that you are currently a part of, or would you investigate the religion that your family and peers are a part of and instilled into you from birth?

As it turns out, I was raised Baptist. I have a brother who is a Pastor of a baptist church. I had questions about the Bible that were not satisfied by the churches teachings, so I investigated other denominations, churches, and Holy Writ. Once I found the teachings that answered the questions I had in my own mind, I prayed to God and asked for confirmation, which I received through the power of the Holy Spirit. My friend, I do not expect you to take my word for it, the only advise I have for you, is to do your own investigating, and not take anyone's word for it, including those claiming to have proven their theories through science.

Originally posted by MitchL61
Once I found the teachings that answered the questions I had in my own mind, I prayed to God and asked for confirmation, which I received through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Which was......?

reply to post by MitchL61

Once I found the teachings that answered the questions I had in my own mind, I prayed to God and asked for confirmation, which I received through the power of the Holy Spirit.

What do you mean by the power of the Holy Spirit? Did you have super-strength that allowed you to lift a pick-up truck? Did you turn water into wine? You gotta be more specific dude, a vague explanation of quite possibly the most profoundly life changing event that has happened in your life doesn't really have me that excited.

Was it like a surge of energy? A prophetic auditory hallucination? A face-to-face conversation with an angel?

nd, I do not expect you to take my word for it, the only advise I have for you, is to do your own investigating, and not take anyone's word for it,

....So I should take everybodys word that the events in the Bible happened, but I shouldn't take people's word that the Bible is a book of fairy tales?

I've done enough investigating to prove that the Bible doesn't reflect reality. Noah's Ark, Jonah surviving in a fish, God creating life from some dirt and a rib, the Garden of Eden, all of that stuff is so outrageously unrealistic that I cannot even begin to take the Bible seriously.

including those claiming to have proven their theories through science.

I don't need to do the investigating, it's been done. If somebody threw out an insanely inaccurate scientific theory, other scientists in the field wouldn't just ignore it, they would publish a paper debunking those theories, find the calculations, the observations, the patterns, the facts, and the evidence that prove it to be wrong.

It's not the responsibility of every single person to fact-check science, that's the responsibiliy of the scientist that presented the theory and the other scientists that are skeptical of the theory.

reply to post by TupacShakur


you have to understand why some people are so stubborn.

They would rather die than live in a world where their magic wish granting wizard doesnt exist. I promise you they will kill themselves and others to spite a world that no longer shares their delusion.

reply to post by MitchL61


Why would anyone put their Faith in the hands of Mankind? They lie, cheat and steal.
If more people would follow what has been written to us, the world would be a much better place.
Can someone deny that fact? Just take the Ten Commandments to start. People shy away from it to justify their own actions and satisfactions. How else can they justify Adultery as an example?
IMO, We have way surpassed what we we have been taught and given.

reply to post by Hydroman

Which was......?

I'm apprehensive to say. Just because I found for myself God's true church on earth, it doesn't mean that everyone reading this is going to be convinced it is. That's my point. Everyone must find their own path. The only thing I would say is, the truth is out there, if you earnestly seek it. God will lead His servants to you.

reply to post by mugger


thats funny because the 10 commandements never stopped those inbred mouth breathers from beating their wives and making black people their slaves.

Strange that all the while hitler was painting the virgin mary he has the greatest faith he was doing gods will.

reply to post by TupacShakur

I've done enough investigating to prove that the Bible doesn't reflect reality. Noah's Ark, Jonah surviving in a fish, God creating life from some dirt and a rib, the Garden of Eden, all of that stuff is so outrageously unrealistic that I cannot even begin to take the Bible seriously.

I believe God has caused many books to be written. I don't buy into many of the stories in the Old Testament either. I hesitate to tell you all that I do believe because I don't think you will take it seriously and actually pray sincerely to know if it true or not. Jesus said "..don;t cast your pearls before swine, lest they turn again and rend you". I love you, and I believe you are my brother/sister. I would never tell you that I received a witness of the Holy Spirit if it were not true. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, in my mind, is an unpardonable sin.

reply to post by Watts


No atheist I have ever met or interacted with thinks like this. We are good because we are good. We do not want or need an invisible sky spirit to keep us on the straight and narrow. When we screw up, we take responsibility for it and we don't blame it on the devil. We are not tormented by visions of naked children, and we don't spend a lot of time coveting our neighbors wife. We recognize that there are about 3.5 billion people in the world that we can covet, if that's what we are into, so we make it a point not to muck up our own nest.

I am happy for the faith of the religious person who is haunted by evil thoughts and desires, and who believes that an all powerful god exists that will judge them and send them to hell if they misbehave. For the majority of humans, no inner mechanism exists to keep them from raping and murdering their neighbors, so I thank FRANK every day that religion exists to keep a lid on their antisocial deviancy.

reply to post by MitchL61


You're right. Its all about faith.

Science is the systematic steps taken in formulating a solution or explanation. Science is not faith, but believing any solution contrived through science is faith. By believing said solutions to be accurate is to put faith in the formulation of the solution and its calculation. Many atheist I've met, seen on television, or read opinions of on the internet put blind faith in scientists and their solutions and yet they argue they are not religious.

The faithful continue to try pin the term faith on Atheism because that is their whole mindset. The lack of faith as it is understood in the vernacular rather than any intellectual pedantry means Atheists do not have any singular focus of idolatry for them to focus their assault upon nor take up arms against.
For is Atheism not simply the application of accepted formulae to observable phenomana. Empiricism if you will. However as this strategem applies accross numerous fields and the faithful's minds are rooted in singularity it makes the Atheist an invisible target. No banners nor idols upon which to wage their war upon, a constantly shifting target as things are proven or disproven, new discoveries, new ideas, new constructs and creativity.
Considering the vernacular again and the faithful's claim of Atheism as a faith, IF that was conceded then to form any argument you would have to understand WHY the Atheist's think like they do. Evolution is the obvious primary battleground.
We are not evolved from primates we are a primate. Start there and check out the evidence to understand why a great number of Atheist's think that way.
Check out what they think caused the Japanese earthquake and Tsunami.
Check out why they think the age of the Earth is more than 4 billion years older than the faithful's belief.
Check out why they think the tides wax and wane.
Check out what they think. However I would hurry because it could different tomorrow.

I have a question.

Is your faith a personal choice,
can we choose what we have faith in,
or is faith based on feelings/awareness?

For me faith is more or less based on how i perceive information. Therefor faith becomes a reaction to what i am aware off.

Faith is not a choice, faith is a reaction.

No mather how much i try to believe in God, If i cant feel a connection there will never be any true faith.

reply to post by goldentorch


Although faith has become synonymously attached to a belief in god, faith does not belong to a god based religion. Faith simply means to believe that something is true even though there is not 100% proof that said something is true.

Saying you have faith in god or god's word is not some super mysterious religious phrase. All it means is that you believe in god, what god says, or that god will be able accomplish whatever it is that you believe god to be able to accomplish. If you have faith in yourself then it means you think you will be able to accomplish what you have faith in yourself to be able to do.

This is why atheist are indeed people of faith in regards to religion and gods. They have faith that there is no god because there is no evidence of god, and moreover, many put faith in science and scientists to be able to explain away the existence of god. Much to an atheist's dismay, there is and never will be evidence to prove that god isn't real.

I put my faith in Jesus; He is the only way to God.

reply to post by Kingalbrect79


"Just be glad you have someone else to blame when you make mistakes, it must be pretty easy to get away with anything then right? "

With this statement and belief, you show that you do not understand Faith. Jesus Christ is not someone to BLAME when one makes a mistakes, he's the one Who's guidance we seek in helpng us follow His Father's Word and Will.
There is a huge difference. We ourselves are to BLAME because we are human. And he understands this.

I shared this Native American tale last night on a thread, and I think the message is warranted here.
"*I have heard the Cherokee story a couple times now about when the Prophet was with them. It was said that there were many tales, but most were as all the other nations. The one that was unique to the Cherokee was one in which the Healer was troubled by the events of the future. His twelve disciples (all tribes say he chose twelve for his special training!) were following him through the woods for fear any danger would come upon Him. At one point, the Healer came across a fawn that was lost in the woods. The Healer asked him where his mother was? The fawn turned his head and looked down a path. Not far away was the mother, the victim of a huge cat. She had given her life to save her young.

The Healer knelt down beside the dead mother and started stroking the body. As His hand passed over the wounds, they healed up, leaving no marks. The deer then started breathing and rose. The disciples were upset at this and asked Him why he was wasting His energy on the animals. The Pale One said, "There cannot be too many good deeds. Such is the manner of compassion. A lost lamb is my Father's business, as important as saving a nation, if one need not choose between them. More precious in my Father's eyes is a good deed than the most exquisite jewel.". www.wolflodge.org...

So, when He traveled the World, thousands of years ago, leaving His Father's word in many of the Native South and North American legends, as well as our Holy Bible you can darn well know that a large percentage of this world knows the Truth. His Word is to help us on this journey. And at the End of this journey, I certainly hole that my Life counted for something to Him.

reply to post by jeramie


You might like to read an excerpt of He Walked The Americas at www.wolflodge.org... It's fascinating, inspiring and full of Faith. Praise Him.

Originally posted by spy66
I have a question.

Is your faith a personal choice,
can we choose what we have faith in,
or is faith based on feelings/awareness?

For me faith is more or less based on how i perceive information. Therefor faith becomes a reaction to what i am aware off.

Faith is not a choice, faith is a reaction.

No mather how much i try to believe in God, If i cant feel a connection there will never be any true faith.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

I think you're hitting on a good point.
Faith can certainly be an emotional inspired belief, but I think we still have control over faith.

I'd say my faith in the existence of god is 70% emotional attachment and 30% illogical conclusion. The reason I say illogical is because I use an existence of god to explain into existence other things such as aliens, ghosts, magic, and miracles. Also, we have a universe filled with matter and yet we've never seen any matter spontaneously come into existence. It's illogical for me to think that the absence of spontaneous matter is proof of its nonexistence, but I see it as proof nonetheless.

reply to post by Bleeeeep


Will have to short and sweet here.
I do not believe in God. Period. I do not have faith in there being no God, there is no evidence for it therefore it does not exist and the onus of proof is upon those making the claim.