It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

It all Boils Down to Faith

page: 3
8
<< 1  2    4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 05:56 AM
link   

Originally posted by goldentorch
reply to post by Bleeeeep
 


Will have to short and sweet here.
I do not believe in God. Period. I do not have faith in there being no God, there is no evidence for it therefore it does not exist and the onus of proof is upon those making the claim.


You know that you won't have that physical evidence, so therefore you won't even explore it...

John 6:43-44...Jesus answered. "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Please just remember the above, because God is actively trying to gather his flock. If you feel someone "knocking at your door" so to speak, or that a weight is being placed on your shoulders, please just sit down and explain how you feel. Try asking some questions, then keep aware as the path will be shown to help you.
It truly is a beginning, your Life has meaning to Him. Peace.




posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 06:07 AM
link   

Originally posted by goldentorch
reply to post by Bleeeeep
 


Will have to short and sweet here.
I do not believe in God. Period. I do not have faith in there being no God, there is no evidence for it therefore it does not exist and the onus of proof is upon those making the claim.


You sir, have faith there is no god. No proof is not proof of nonexistence.

Saying you don't believe there is a god, without proof of gods nonexistence, is the same as saying you have faith that there is no god. Furthermore, if one is to say there is definitely no god then that gives them the same "onus of proof" as those who say there is definitely a god.


edit on 5-8-2011 by Bleeeeep because: added commas and refined sentence for clarity



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 06:25 AM
link   
Whoa, I couldnt have said it better myself op, if an individual is indoctrinated into one flavor of Kool-Aid at an early age, that will be your drink of choice. Thus, "FAITH" should be the root of all evil and not money; as blind faith has led many of billions to bath in our own ignorance, when truth was so easily thrown out, and myself at one time am not excluded from the grasps of this injustice as "Schools, and Religion," kept me blinded for many years.

Nice thread



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 09:20 AM
link   
reply to post by MitchL61
 


Well what proof is there of any god to exist, the only thing is the religious texts like the bible or the koran, but these are all made by men, which by your own reasoning, are lying.

On the other hand, there are alot of evidence for global warming, for example the north pole ice caps which are now mostly sea water, where there previously was ice. Now this is tangible proof.

So i choose to believe in evidence, nothing else, and from there i base my belief or opinion.

This is also called science.



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 09:51 AM
link   

Originally posted by MitchL61
I prayed to God and asked for confirmation, which I received through the power of the Holy Spirit.


Just out of curiousity; in what form did this confirmation come to you? Was it verbal, or more of a sign from nature or the stars? Did your lights flicker or cupboard doors flap? I ask this not in an attempt to mock you, but to try to understand.

I've been looking for answers, but God has been silent. I've been told in order to understand I must have faith, but how can I be sure that I'm putting faith in something real and not just reinforcing my own delusions?



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 11:14 AM
link   

Originally posted by MitchL61
reply to post by TupacShakur
 



If you were born in Afghanistan, Somalia, China, Vietnam, or Thailand, would you have investigated the religion that you are currently a part of, or would you investigate the religion that your family and peers are a part of and instilled into you from birth?


As it turns out, I was raised Baptist. I have a brother who is a Pastor of a baptist church. I had questions about the Bible that were not satisfied by the churches teachings, so I investigated other denominations, churches, and Holy Writ. Once I found the teachings that answered the questions I had in my own mind, I prayed to God and asked for confirmation, which I received through the power of the Holy Spirit. My friend, I do not expect you to take my word for it, the only advise I have for you, is to do your own investigating, and not take anyone's word for it, including those claiming to have proven their theories through science.
edit on 06/03/2011 by MitchL61 because: (no reason given)


Why don't Christians ever investigate with unbiased sources?

As a matter of fact, they will rarely DISCUSS religion with unbiased sources; they only want to 'confirm' with their pastor (duhh), their religious friends( who will be in the 'Amen' corner), or god (?)



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 11:18 AM
link   

Originally posted by NeoVain
reply to post by MitchL61
 


Well what proof is there of any god to exist, the only thing is the religious texts like the bible or the koran, but these are all made by men, which by your own reasoning, are lying.

On the other hand, there are alot of evidence for global warming, for example the north pole ice caps which are now mostly sea water, where there previously was ice. Now this is tangible proof.

So i choose to believe in evidence, nothing else, and from there i base my belief or opinion.

This is also called science.


I agree


We chose to dwell in facts (evidence, tested theories), while Christians dwell in 'faith (ignoring evidence)



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 11:22 AM
link   
When the facts do not match the belief system, ignore the facts.

Christianity, 101

Another thing that frustrates me is that when I engage in 'debate' with a Christian, they usually tell me that my historical/scientific facts are 'my beliefs' (???)

It is truly obvious that one must suspend logic, ration, reason, and critical thinking when discussing this topic while defending their 'faith'.



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 11:25 AM
link   
reply to post by MitchL61
 



I believe God has caused many books to be written. I don't buy into many of the stories in the Old Testament either. I hesitate to tell you all that I do believe because I don't think you will take it seriously and actually pray sincerely to know if it true or not. Jesus said "..don;t cast your pearls before swine, lest they turn again and rend you". I love you, and I believe you are my brother/sister. I would never tell you that I received a witness of the Holy Spirit if it were not true. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, in my mind, is an unpardonable sin.
So basically what you're saying is even though there are many parts of the Bible that are incredibly unrealistic and even you know that they're BS, you still believe in it because there are some good morals? The same could be said for any fiction book.

Also, yesterday after badmouthing God and religion in this thread, I had a fever of 102.4 for absolutely no reason. Maybe Gods out to get me lol
edit on 5-8-2011 by TupacShakur because: To edit my post



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 11:39 AM
link   
reply to post by MitchL61
 


When you boil down faith you end up with the exact same thing if you were to boil down water.

An empty pot!

IRM



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 11:42 AM
link   

Originally posted by Watts
Actually even atheism boils down to faith. They're putting all their eggs in the basket that says "there is no god therefore I can do whatever I want because I will never have to pay for any wrong doings or face any punishment for how I lived my life.".. so really its all faith.


Wrong.

You simply don't understand what atheism is.

Also, beliefs do NOT require faith as is stated in the OP. Religious beliefs require faith but most of what we believe is based on things other than faith.
edit on 5-8-2011 by traditionaldrummer because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 11:44 AM
link   
Why is it that the conversations about religion usually get initiated by the religious person, but then as soon as they see that you are not apart of their 'group', conversation is over and they have nothing more to say?

TupacShakur said it best a min ago when he made the statement about their faith not being strong enough to debate.

Conversations usually go like this:

"What church do you 'belong' to?" (I'm a black southerner, so its expected of me to 'belong' to a church)

"None"

'What? You don't believe in god? (No, I don't feel pressured to capitalize the 'g', by the way)

"How is my non-church going status equate in my belief in a god? But no, I don't, by the way."

"What happened? What made you turn against him?"

"Research and critical thinking"

"oh......." (with a nasty look on their face)

"But since you've brought this up, lets discuss it. Lemme ask you, are you a christian?"

"Yes"

"Are you sure?"

" Of course"

"Great. Then surely you can tell me about the origins of Christianity, ya know, like when and how it was formed."

".................huh?.............."

"Ya know, the history of your organization."

"I don't know, but I know that Jesus died for my sin.....(yaddah yaddah yaddah)

"How can you be so sure of that, when you don't know much about the religion itself?"

"Because I was brought up in Chrisitianity and.....

"So what unbiased sources have you used to investigate?"

"I don't need to investigate. You are not supposed to question god."

"What?? You mean to tell me that you have joined an organization, probably have paid millions of dollars to its cause, dedicated your life as well as your children's) and you have NEVER questioned it????"

"This conversation is over. I don't discuss religion."

"WTH?"



Its truly amazing.......



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 11:48 AM
link   

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
You sir, have faith there is no god. No proof is not proof of nonexistence.

Saying you don't believe there is a god, without proof of gods nonexistence, is the same as saying you have faith that there is no god.


This is ridiculous. Non-belief in, say...bigfoot does not require faith. Nor does non-belief in god(s). Disbelief in deities requires a complete lack of faith.



Furthermore, if one is to say there is definitely no god then that gives them the same "onus of proof" as those who say there is definitely a god.


This much is true. Gnostic, or "strong" atheists do have a burden of proof.



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 11:55 AM
link   
This survey shows that people are losing their faith and atheism is on the rise.


The "Nones" (no stated religious
preference, atheist, or agnostic)
continue to grow, though at a much
slower pace than in the 1990s, from
8.2% in 1990, to 14.1% in 2001, to
15.0% in 2008.


And this study found that "Intelligent people are less likely to believe in God".

People's religious faith is dying, and I think that in a couple hundred years religious people will be a small minority and atheism will be the norm.



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 11:58 AM
link   
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


In an attempt to clarify for both believers and non-believers:

Non-Belief in a god [ex: "I do not believe in any god"] is a lack of belief and requires no faith. To this person, no compelling argument has been given to cause them to put faith in a deity.

This category includes:
Agnostic Theists (acknowlege the possibility of a god, believe there is some being or force that created the universe but are unsure of its nature)
Agnostic Atheists (acknowlege the possibility of a god, but cannot put faith in their existence due to lack of evidence)

Belief that there is no god [ex: "God absolutely does not exist"] is a belief that requires faith that there is no spiritual higher power or creative force in the universe. People who fall into this category are Gnostic Atheists, and are just as silly as any Theist because you cannot know for sure whether a god really exists or not. Any proof that you supply that cannot be reliably tested may simply be a delusion.
edit on 5-8-2011 by Glass because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 12:01 PM
link   
reply to post by Glass
 


You guys kill me.

Faith is the belief in something that has absolutely no proof or evidence backing it.

Atheism is the lack of faith in something that requires belief in something that has no proof backing it.

Understand?

You can't have faith in a lack of faith, that doesn't make sense.
edit on 5-8-2011 by TupacShakur because: To edit my post



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 12:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Glass
Belief that there is no god [ex: "God absolutely does not exist"] is a belief that requires faith that there is no spiritual higher power or creative force in the universe. People who fall into this category are Gnostic Atheists, and are just as silly as any Theist because you cannot know for sure whether a god really exists or not. Any proof that you supply that cannot be reliably tested may simply be a delusion.
edit on 5-8-2011 by Glass because: (no reason given)


While it's true that a positive assertion that there are no gods renders a burden of proof, I'm not sure that it's universally applicable that faith is required for their position. And, depending on how one's god is defined, one CAN know with certainty whether it exists or not.



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 12:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by TupacShakur
reply to post by Glass
 

Faith is the belief in something that has absolutely no proof or evidence backing it.



This is exactly the point I was making.

You cannot prove that god doesn't exist any more than you can prove he does.

The only reasonable answer is to be unsure, and lean in whichever direction suits you.



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 12:20 PM
link   

Originally posted by Glass
You cannot prove that god doesn't exist any more than you can prove he does.


One can prove that a god doesn't exist depending on the definition of the god. Some gods would be impossible to disprove since their believers have defined them into unfalsifiability (e.g., "outside of space and time"). Other, more worldly gods with specific attributes can be proven to be non-existent.



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 12:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Glass
You cannot prove that god doesn't exist any more than you can prove he does.


One can prove that a god doesn't exist depending on the definition of the god. Some gods would be impossible to disprove since their believers have defined them into unfalsifiability (e.g., "outside of space and time"). Other, more worldly gods with specific attributes can be proven to be non-existent.



I understand. The Titan Atlas, for example, who holds up the the sky at the end of the world, is certainly non-existent, for there is no end to a round earth nor does the sky need to be supported.

My statement depends on the assumption that "Gods" are defined by existing outside the physical realm.



new topics

top topics


active topics

 
8
<< 1  2    4  5 >>

log in

join