Do you have a relationship with the creator of the universe?

Originally posted by randyvs
Why fear you time of dying? Why fear anything as long as it isn't a shark.

I hate Sharks.

Why can't non-believers feel this way? And I hate sharks too. I thought I touched one this summer while swimming in the ocean.

Originally posted by randyvs
Basically I came to a point in my life, where there was no fear, only freedom.

I felt that way after I realized I was an atheist.

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by Stovokor
.what good are you as a mod?

I have no idea why they have kept me for so long.

Obvisouly a reckless oversight that needs to be corrected.

Originally posted by AQuestion


Do you really hope to chastise me for not forcing my beliefs on other and tell that I am acting unbiblicly? Wow, where are you coming from? It seems that you have a box to fit Christians into and if we fail to fit in then we are not following the bible; but, it is a straw man, you decide what I must believe, no thank you.

I'm not chastising you. I'm trying to figure out where you draw your beliefs from. No, I don't believe you should force your beliefs on anyone. Yet, when I was a christian, I thought it was good that if I saw someone down and depressed or sick, to offer to pray for them, or maybe tell them about this god.

reply to post by randyvs


Dear randyvs,

You said, "Anyway I most likely would never have gone beyond bolting up, if not for my faith. my belief in God, told me there isn't one damn thing to fear, because the only thing that is going to happen, is what's supposed to happen. Nothing more nothing less. Why fear your time of dying? Why fear anything as long as it isn't a shark. I hate Sharks."

Okay, I also hate sharks and have vertigo. I love and believe in God; but, I fear I will make a mistake. Iron walking is really challenging and I applaud you. I am not afraid of dying and could never explain my vertigo to you, heck, I have flown a see through ultralight; but, I cannot get over my fear of height except in a plane. Stupid, right? I guess I fear that I might jump, test the limits. I am sorry, I am off the topic or maybe it is just something that can be questioned of me. Be well.

reply to post by Hydroman
There's a lot of freedom in just embracing the fact that we are part of a big, complicated wolfpack.

Originally posted by AQuestion


I am sorry, I am off the topic or maybe it is just something that can be questioned of me. Be well.

Off topic discussion doesn't bother me.

I feel like I do have a relationship. I'm going to ask that it get stormy and rainy across much of the US and cooler. It's way too hot and dry. Within a couple of weeks hopefully a lot of cooling rains will come to a lot of the central and southern US. I haven't asked for this so I'll see how it goes. Just don't blame me if tornadoes start happening along with floods and severe weather. It was all of you that asked for something in my opinion.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by AQuestion
I did not say that those who are good and do good will be saved, how you can quote that for me. None are good but God, that is what my bible says, why put the words of some pastor or whoever that you don't believe in my mouth?

I suppose there is a lack of communication going on here. I asked you about people who do good things for others who aren't christians. You said, " it means that they have the heart of Jesus and will be appreciated for such a thing" What does that mean? He will appreciate you, then throw you in the fire? I don't get it.

Originally posted by AQuestion
I will answer you in order. It does say that none comes to the father except by Jesus, it didn't say by knowing his name, now, his name is powerful; but, can he love people who do not know the name, the deaf for instance or is it a spelling question in which case I would ask if the illiterate could know Jesus. It is by knowing his heart and being in accordance with loving one another.

This came up because I said that non-christians, those who don't follow jesus, can do great things for others, such as feed the hungry. Most of them may not even believe in Jesus. They can still love one another without Jesus in the picture.

Originally posted by AQuestion
Same for the second sentence (you were taught a lot of wrong things by your church), it says whoever believes in Jesus, again not his name, his heart. It says that many who come to him and say Lord, Lord, will be turned away and that he will tell them that he never knew them, how does that mean that if you know his name and story you are saved? That is not what it says.

Again, wow. Whoever believes in Jesus's heart will be saved? What? So, they may not have even heard of Jesus, nor the gospel, but can be saved as long as they believe in his heart? That is new to me.

Dear Hydroman,

I have not used the quote function much because I was chastised and corrected by moderators for doing so; but, I have used it this time and I think for a good reason. I want to answer you and refer to what you said.

Firstly, I did not say that those he appreciated would be thrown in the fire, please I am not one of those who preached garbage to you, I am not a preacher and I don't follow the traditions, I follow the bible. You skipped what I said about Moses being saved and not knowing the name of Christ. I said, it is about knowing the heart of Christ, the person and not the name. Christ loved the world so much that he gave his life for us, he loved the world, that means all of us. Anyone who loves all of us has the heart of Christ, I do hope that clarifies; but, perhaps you disagree.

I am very disappointed in your second question, why would you would you want people to go to hell because they didn't get the memo? You ask if people who never knew the name of Jesus or read the bible could be saved, do you really believe that God would condemn them? Why would you even think of such a God? The fact that God loves us all is new to you? Your church did you wrong. Do you not know that it says that nobody can deny that they saw God, that he was in the stars and in people and in everything, do you think he only was in these things after Jesus was on earth? You were told some really silly things by these people as you now say these things were silly; but, don't assume I believe the silly people that taught you. We are in agreement, you were taught things that are wrong, don't ask me to justify them.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by AQuestion


Do you really hope to chastise me for not forcing my beliefs on other and tell that I am acting unbiblicly? Wow, where are you coming from? It seems that you have a box to fit Christians into and if we fail to fit in then we are not following the bible; but, it is a straw man, you decide what I must believe, no thank you.

I'm not chastising you. I'm trying to figure out where you draw your beliefs from. No, I don't believe you should force your beliefs on anyone. Yet, when I was a christian, I thought it was good that if I saw someone down and depressed or sick, to offer to pray for them, or maybe tell them about this god.

edit on 4-8-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

so you really didn't help?

with real help? not just platitudes? aspirin, get to a doc?

not saying you should be a one man intervention but dam..

Originally posted by AQuestion

Firstly, I did not say that those he appreciated would be thrown in the fire, please I am not one of those who preached garbage to you, I am not a preacher and I don't follow the traditions, I follow the bible. You skipped what I said about Moses being saved and not knowing the name of Christ.

Moses wasn't saved. He was sent to Abraham's bosom. After Jesus died, according to the bible, he went and preached to those who were there and brought them out. Then, he was saved.

Originally posted by AQuestion
I am very disappointed in your second question, why would you would you want people to go to hell because they didn't get the memo? You ask if people who never knew the name of Jesus or read the bible could be saved, do you really believe that God would condemn them? Why would you even think of such a God? The fact that God loves us all is new to you? Your church did you wrong. Do you not know that it says that nobody can deny that they saw God, that he was in the stars and in people and in everything, do you think he only was in these things after Jesus was on earth? You were told some really silly things by these people as you now say these things were silly; but, don't assume I believe the silly people that taught you. We are in agreement, you were taught things that are wrong, don't ask me to justify them.

I like what you believe better. I like the idea of a god who doesn't condemn those who've never heard of him. That sounds much better. But, I wonder why the gates to destruction are wide and the gates to salvation are narrow?

Originally posted by fooks


so you really didn't help?

with real help? not just platitudes? aspirin, get to a doc?

not saying you should be a one man intervention but dam..

Right. No medicine. Just encouraged them through their cold turkey phase. Took long walks with them for exercise. Tagged along with them when they went to see family so that they didn't do anything they shouldn't, etc.

reply to post by Hydroman


Dear Hydroman,

I do hope you see that I am giving you honest answers, my answers to your question, I am treating you as someone truly asking, that is what began this thread I hope. You said you had honest questions, I said I might give answers and I am still not looking for anyone to convert, that is up to them. You said, "Yet, when I was a christian, I thought it was good that if I saw someone down and depressed or sick, to offer to pray for them, or maybe tell them about this god." and again you missed my point. Firstly, I believe that tradition makes void the word of God, so do not expect me to answer from tradition. I did not say to not pray for people, please show me where I did. I said feed the hungry and help those in trouble without using that help to preach to them. Do it for it's own good, do it because you care about people not for a reward. Pray for all whether you have helped them or not, life is tough enough and nobody praying for me has ever caused me harm so I pray for others. What I was talking about was using our help as a way to sneak in some religion. Don't you agree that this is deceitful, I came to help you eat, when in our heart we are more concerned about teaching them about God then feeding them?

reply to post by Hydroman


I don't know where Christians get this idea about having a "personal relationship with Christ", it's not Biblical in the slightest. While Paul talks a lot in the new testament about letting Christ live through you and crucifying the old self (figuratively of course) I don't recall anything about how Jesus wants a personal relationship being in the Bible. The Bible more often depicts Jesus as a Prince and God as a King that we are meant to be subject to and worship ceaselessly for all eternity (thanks but no thanks).

You'd think that if God wanted to have a relationship with you he'd be here on Earth rather than communicating telepathically via warm and fuzzy feelings. God manages to walk around in the Garden with Adam in Genesis, he manifests himself as a burning bush to Moses and talks to Moses on a mountain to give him the ten commandments. Nowadays what, a few slices of a toast

Anyway my story is fairly similar. Raised Christian, Fundamentalist actually but in my late teens set out to read the Bible all the way through. Drifted into pantheism and deism. Eventually ended up an atheist thanks to applying skepticism to all religious and supernatural claims.

I remember the warm and fuzzy feelings while praying, the speaking in tongues, the intense emotions. I thought it was all God of course only to later find those same feelings were possible while listening to secular music or just having an emotional catharsis. What people deem spiritual or transcendent experience is all possible without the artificial construct of religion and it's imaginary sky parent. Star and Flag

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by kinglizard

 

Dear kinglizard,

Drat, I gave you a star and I don't like to give stars to Super Moderators, they already have enough. I had an NDE also and now I am going to have to read about yours

lol I'm just a member when in discussion. Thanks for the star.

I'd love to read about your NDE if you have the time to post it.

Originally posted by AQuestion
Do it for it's own good, do it because you care about people not for a reward. Pray for all whether you have helped them or not, life is tough enough and nobody praying for me has ever caused me harm so I pray for others. What I was talking about was using our help as a way to sneak in some religion.

When did I say that I did anything for a reward?

Originally posted by AQuestionDon't you agree that this is deceitful, I came to help you eat, when in our heart we are more concerned about teaching them about God then feeding them?

I don't see why you couldn't do both. In my example, I worked for a christian drug center. Most of those who came there knew that in advance. Some left and came back, so they were aware of what they were getting in to. I don't know though, maybe it is sneaky. I'm gonna getcha!

Btw, I do appreciate your answers. I enjoy this kind of dialogue very much.

reply to post by Hydroman


Dear Hydroman,

"Moses wasn't saved. He was sent to Abraham's bosom. After Jesus died, according to the bible, he went and preached to those who were there and brought them out. Then, he was saved." Show me where it says that in the bible, that Moses was not saved. Tell me where in the bible it says that and what of Enoch, was he not raptured? Perhaps as you mention, we can be saved after we die and be brought out, where was Moses brought out from, were you a Catholic that believed in pergatory or do you believe Moses and Enoch went to help, doesn't sound very rapturous for Enoch does it. Perhaps you were told the wrong answers.

reply to post by kinglizard


Dear kinglizard,

I regret to say that I am not ready to post such a thing; but, I will read yours. I always poke the owners and super moderators to prove to myself that the site will allow me to say what I want as long as I follow the fairly simple rules. I was just playing with you. I cannot help being playful, well I could but cannot imagine a reason why I should, life should be fun especially when considering the most difficult decisions and questions. Be well.

Yes I am in him and he is in me.... Just like the cells and atoms in my body have a personal relationship with me so do I with God. Do you know how to communicate to all the atoms in your body and they you? Yet they are a part of you and you a part of them. Some of them can communicate ins some ways but we are all still learning to communicate with each other.

This is why you hear people saying we are all one. We are like atoms in the body of God who have not yet learned to communicate with the whole. WE are all energy beings and once you learn to access the network so to speak then the communication will flow.

Is your child as a baby able to communicate with you clearly or understand you when you talk to him or her? No but that does not mean you are not the father or creator. In due time the baby will learn to communicate with his or her father. And so will we learn to communicate with our father. We are as babies right now not able to communicate with the creator as of yet.

You are actually a step ahead by dropping your traditional Christian dogma and questioning all things that don't seem to make sense. That is the first step to further light and knowledge. Be patient never give up seeking truth and always follow the highest you know and the answers will come when you are ready to receive them.

reply to post by AQuestion


I'd give me hell too.

reply to post by Hydroman


Don't get me wrong, I never try to convert people never have. Biggest reason is because, I have a big enough job
just see'in myself home so to speak. Also the time of the gentiles, I believe just ended. ( the time that Christians are to spread the gospel thru out the world? ) That's all done now. So when I say something in defense of my belief that's all it is. After all, can you tell me the difference, between an actual Creator creating everything, that is existence. And the universe just farted it self together? And even though it looks as tho some greater existence than ours, even the existence that owns existence? Throw consciousness in when ever you like. Even
tho every magic show I've ever seen is never without a magician. That just because it all looks like there is simply a greater existence than ours, that was capable of creating this grandios design a designer. We still have room enough to deny there is a Creator ? How is it that belief in God has to make way less sense than well we don't know or how bout flatulence? The universe does have a lot of gas right? You should slap yourself.