Capitalism Is Bad. Time For Change?

Hello ATS

So, with all the fuzz about economies falling, politicians failing their citizens, large corporations exploiting people all around the world in the name of profit and ''good business'', would it then be time to get rid of the monetarian system and replace it with a moneyless society - a step up on the evolutionary ladder?

Debate away

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Fail.

That would be like looking at GMO food and saying "Food is bad. Time for change?"

Zietgiest communism strikes again

reply to post by VikingDude


Markets crash because they are unregulated.
Your politicians fail you because they are corrupt.
Large corporations exploit people for profit because they can - thats what they do!

Kick it like Germany does these days ... but I guess that would be socialism

reply to post by VikingDude


There's nothing wrong with the concept of capitalism. That is, allowing the freedom of business, goods, services, to interchange, for people to work for money, to spend it as they like, for people to form their own businesses. Capitalism in structure is the best system for a democratic society. The issue really comes about when we take capitalism to the extreme. When people argue that just because systems the likes of communism have utterly failed and have stripped freedoms, away, we should do the exact opposite. Unregulated capitalism, this idea of a libertarianist society, it looks great on paper, but it's completely apart from reality. Capitalism needs restraint in certain circumstances.

Maybe one day, when civilization has evolved more so beyond the social and political tripe we see through the tea parties and other groups, we'll be able to have a society invisioned with little need for regulation, but that time is still to come. We need to taking care of our vets, our elders, we need to give an option to those americans who will not be covered by any private insurer, we need to enforce laws such as against fraud, unfair practices, we need to be sure that businesses do not pollute or damage our environments for the sake of their financial gain.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by VikingDude

 

Unregulated capitalism, this idea of a libertarianist society, it looks great on paper, but it's completely apart from reality. Capitalism needs restraint in certain circumstances.

All we ever see is regulation in favor of the big corporations because they are the ones with the lobbying clout to make it happen and assure a lack of competition. When this happens there is no longer a capitalist system in place. Its called fascism.

Originally posted by Gravity215

All we ever see is regulation in favor of the big corporations because they are the ones with the lobbying clout to make it happen and assure a lack of competition. When this happens there is no longer a capitalist system in place. Its called fascism.

That's true. Capitalist society has essentially become like a fascist dictatorship, although it can be quite subtle when it wants to be. It hides under the veneer of liberty, but in reality, the government is controlled by corporate pressure. They are what is really controlling the economy.

But in all political ideals, there lurks the threat of corruption. Socialism in particular has been tainted by the corruption of communism, which is unfortunate.

reply to post by VikingDude




Yes.




1.1 billion starving on the planet today would also agree if they had access to a computer..

Not talking about communism here. Socialism is the word

Communism stripped away people's freedom and rights, yes. But that is communism. Socialism, when mixed with democracy, is a much more prudent system. If you want to help people, why are you capitalists then?

Anything in an extreme turns destructive and decrepit. Moderation is where the cool part is at.
Have a bit of this and a bit of that,instead of a whole big pile of just this, and you might find a better experience.
Everything is good in small amounts and balanced with it's opposite.

Originally posted by DeepThoughtCriminal
Socialism in particular has been tainted by corruption, which is unfortunate.

Another one who mixes up Socialism and Communism......

The Ferengi here explains things:

Originally posted by Bluesma

Originally posted by DeepThoughtCriminal
Socialism in particular has been tainted by corruption, which is unfortunate.

Another one who mixes up Socialism and Communism......

Yes socialism is just a nanny state where u cant take a dump without some power mad bureaucrat filling out forms in triplicate and giving you approval.

Where you have to do whatever the state tells you because its in your own good, whether you want it or not. Yay socialism. IMO socialism is basically the same as communism with thousands of little dictators instead of a single one.

reply to post by Bluesma


No, I don't mix it up. What I meant to say is that socialism has been tarred with the same brush as communism, so most to most people it is exactly the same thing, when they hear "socialism" they hear "communism" and therefore corruption etc.

Originally posted by Observer99
Fail.

That would be like looking at GMO food and saying "Food is bad. Time for change?"

Fail. The very name CAPITALISM says it all. "You are going to make something on this." You are going to CAPITALIZE on a situation no matter how dire, desperate or extreme and you are going to figure a way to CASH IN.

This doesn't consider anyone else in the equation.

This doesn't consider what is best for the planet, for the region or the community.

This doesn't take into consideration and provide for what people need.

CAPITALISM is holding SHINY OBJECTS up and saying "Look at this! Buy me!"

Eventually everyone is cash strapped except those who are selling something people are buying, and when you get that big you can always come up with another version or improvement of that or you can take the consumer hostage with replacement parts, maintenance contracts and all manner of protection because this thing IS GOING TO FALL APART once you get it off the showroom floor.

Consumer gets the shtty end of the stick. Consumer fails.

This sort of a system will eventually play itself out as it is doing today in a fashion where you are either the scammer or the one being scammed.

Capitalism was a good idea when it was considered unscrupulous to de-fraud the public.
It worked as long as mankind had integrity, honor and pride. Those things are gone.

Originally posted by DeepThoughtCriminal
reply to post by Bluesma

 

No, I don't mix it up. What I meant to say is that socialism has been tarred with the same brush as communism, so most to most people it is exactly the same thing, when they hear "socialism" they hear "communism" and therefore corruption etc.

You are right. It is sort of an inflammatory word usually used as part of a political speech. Protect free market capitalism! So the rich can continue to take full advantage of the poor and squeeze what little money they have out of them. People don't see it that way. They are blind or should I say BLINDED by the status quo and they actually fall for the line of crap....anyone can make it here in America...land of the free. Just try and get your product on a supermarket shelf - space is already taken up by major corporations. It is a PRIVATE CLUB and even great ideas don't stand a chance UNLESS YOU ARE ALREADY PART OF THE OLIGARCHY.

A rare few great ideas sneak through and the rest have to wait for money to start up. They fail and fail and fail again and there are those who CAPI8TALIZE on this very failure. Hell why give up a system like this if you are making money on it.

Giant corporations and mega conglomerates...you will take CAPITALISM out of their cold dead hands. If they have to kill their GOP lackeys, spokesmen and beneficiaries and get new GOP reps, or even try to trap a stray DEM to uphold this FREE MARKET CAPITALISM ideal and their interests... they will.

Money has been the best motivator to get people off their lazy asses and build magnificent societies for the past several centuries. Not sure if we would manage without that motivator. I don't think so.

Originally posted by -PLB-
Money has been the best motivator to get people off their lazy asses and build magnificent societies for the past several centuries. Not sure if we would manage without that motivator. I don't think so.

Doing the right thing...that's a motivator. Praise (collective acknowledgement of a success or a good thing done) is the best and cheapest motivator. Ask any kid.

If you changed what you value, ie money to something more substantial like the planet and it's people....the whole paradigm would change.

What should we do with the people who for one reason or another cannot "get up off their lazy asses" say maybe a vet who has lost legs or a handicapped person who no longer has parents to care for them? Shouldn't there be a way for these people to contribute. If your system is all about money you will not incorporate THEM. They will slow you down.

You are right in that it is ingrained and attached to us like a scar...this lust of material wealth.
That is because it is lorded over everyone. Who wouldn't want to be the master rather than the slave and that is essentially the system. A little of each. Masters and slaves. This has worked throughout millennium but now your slaves are revolting.

The only thing about capitalism that causes problems and needs to be regulated are the capitalist.... There was a time when there was a free market with safeguards, ethics and rules but nowadays corporations are places where no one is held liable for anything and can practice business in a Machiavellian manner with no reprisal from anyone that has the credentials to do something.... They own the courts and legislating bodies as well... I know good and well that it wasn't near as bad as it now is before 1980 though it had been slowly heading toward this for long before.. .

Originally posted by VikingDude
Hello ATS

So, with all the fuzz about economies falling, politicians failing their citizens, large corporations exploiting people all around the world in the name of profit and ''good business'', would it then be time to get rid of the monetarian system and replace it with a moneyless society - a step up on the evolutionary ladder?

Debate away

Mods: Please move this topic if it's posted in the wrong forum

VikingDude - You have a terrific question here and one I think deserves great consideration. The system sucks. But as another poster pointed out this word CAPITALISM is imbued with all sorts of hidden meaning and when you use it in an argument this way people look at it as the OPPOSITE OF COMMUNISM.

Of course that is wrong and makes no sense at all but what can we do?

We can use different words to mean the same thing.
You can find a way to attack the entire argument and make the case but strike the word CAPITALISM from the paper and this idea will gain in popularity.

It will gain in popularity until the Mega Corps and Conglomerates get a hold of the plan. They send in their troops to fight it using a platform saying this is essentially COMMUNISM! "My opponent who criticizes free market capitalism is in favor of COMMUNISM."

And it all goes around again until someone says "what is this we're eating? It isn't even food! How did this happen?" ENOUGH.