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Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by JROCK2527
Just.. shoot them in the head..
It's not like we're going to be fighting Wolverine or the Teminator.
That's the answer to your question.
Originally posted by LittleBirdSaid
Originally posted by Shadowalker
There isnt any debate. 9mm for the ladies
.45 for the gents. .40 S&W for the metro gents.
Um - I'm a lady quite comfortable with the 45,
Thank you.
That said I am shopping right now OP so I appreciate your post.
Any gun is only as good as your accuracy, which requires practice and vigilance about safety.
If you can't use the gun in a safe (to you) way - with some measure of accuracy it doesn't matter what you shoot.
The 9mm has the advantage of cost efficiant ammo - which makes this a good purchase for those who need range time, and plenty of it - and most of us do. The 45 is a big, bang fun shoot - but more costly to practice with. I am going to explore the 40, which might be a nice compromise.
edit on 19-7-2011 by LittleBirdSaid because: (no reason given)
I fully understand knockdown power,.
Originally posted by schuyler
Originally posted by Lil Drummerboy
a 22 long will go through Kevlar
why the need for anything else?
Because a .22 doesn't make a very big hole. The fact that a .22 can penetrate Kevlar is not really the issue. .45 hollow point expands upon impact and DOES make a very big hole. You can confirm this by looking at gellatin ballistics. You can click on any caliber on that web site to see the results in both penetration and size of the hole. If the object is to stop the threat, a big hole is much more likely to bring about the result you desire. A .22 doesn't even begin to compare with the larger calibers. For paper target shooting, small game hunting, and expense of round, a .22 is great and great fun, but it's not what anyone would want to depend upon to stop a real threat.
Originally posted by mandella1099
A woman in Atlanta recently made a home invader "good" after shooting him seven times with a .22 rimfire handgun - go figure....
Originally posted by guppy
Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by JROCK2527
Just.. shoot them in the head..
That is a very ignorant statement.
If you shoot them in the head, then you better have a clear explanation to the cops, jury, your peers, and the public.
After you survive your engagement with a criminal, the battle isn't over. You have to worry about what the cops see when they arrive to make their report. Then you have to worry about criminal court. After criminal court, you then have to survive civil court. The family of your opponent may be justified to win against you since you decided to "assassinate" your "victim" because you're a blood thirsty animal who is dangerous to the public. Trust me it has happen.
There is one way you have a chance of not losing in both courts. It is when your target is behind cover and you had no choice but to shoot him in his exposed head. Even then, it is not a guarantee win in both courts.
Originally posted by LittleBirdSaid
Originally posted by Shadowalker
There isnt any debate. 9mm for the ladies
.45 for the gents. .40 S&W for the metro gents.
Um - I'm a lady quite comfortable with the 45,
Thank you.
That said I am shopping right now OP so I appreciate your post.
Any gun is only as good as your accuracy, which requires practice and vigilance about safety.
If you can't use the gun in a safe (to you) way - with some measure of accuracy it doesn't matter what you shoot.
The 9mm has the advantage of cost efficiant ammo - which makes this a good purchase for those who need range time, and plenty of it - and most of us do. The 45 is a big, bang fun shoot - but more costly to practice with. I am going to explore the 40, which might be a nice compromise.
edit on 19-7-2011 by LittleBirdSaid because: (no reason given)
Corporal Mark Coates was shot and killed after stopping a car for weaving in traffic on I-95 near the Georgia border. During the traffic stop the suspect began to struggle with Corporal Coates and they both fell to the ground. The suspect fired a .22 caliber handgun into Corporal Coates' chest, but the round was stopped by his vest.
Corporal Coates was able to force the man off of him and return fire, striking the suspect five times in the chest with his .357 caliber revolver. As he retreated for cover and to radio for backup, the suspect fired another shot. The round struck Trooper Coates in the left armpit and traveled into his heart. The suspect survived the incident and was sentenced to life in prison.
Originally posted by MikeNice81
First of all, "knock down power" is largely a myth. Sorry guys and gals but even 500lb/ft of force is enough to knock a person down. To see the myth disproven you can look up a great experiment on Myth Busters. Even the vaunted 12 gauge barely knocked the target back.
Originally posted by MikeNice81
Second, in the real world there is nearly 0% difference between the effectiveness of all three major LEO calibers. In the nearly 60 OIS reports I have read they all perform the same.
60 reports? 60 data samples are not enough to prove a theory. Ask any scientist. It is like using Mythbusters to solve your problem. You will need at least 1000 data samples for near real-life statistics.
Originally posted by JROCK2527
so what gun wuld that be? if you dont mind me asking.
Originally posted by EyesWideShut
reply to post by guppy
With .45 , I stick to 230gr FMJ's & JHP's... I never understood why someone would run 185gr .45 when 180gr .40 out performs it. The reason I use a .45 is because I like a big slow moving round. I practice with Hardball & I run Gold Dot JHP's for social work , or Hornady TAP +p's.
Originally posted by MikeNice81
reply to post by guppy
I run 147gr bonded hps in 9mm. I don't see anything wrong with 16" of penetration and .56" expanded diameter. Plus I know if I need to shoot through barriers I can.
Originally posted by MikeNice81
I had never heard of BMT. I am not a big fan of frangible bullets though. A lot of them either don't perform as advertise or work too well. I would be interested in seeing if BMT works any better.
Originally posted by MikeNice81
I think my previous comment came across wrong. In my head it sounded more playfully pompus. Rereading it, the tone wasn't there.