Is Satan truly evil?

Satan is alive and well and living on Planet earth. We all know he is the fallen Angel . The Angel Gabriel that taunted God and was thrown to Earth. He also taunted Jesus saying that he could offer him the Nations of the earth to rule, but Jesus said “I am not of this World but will one day be the King and Messiah.

Just one example showing that Satan is evil:

John 8:42-44(KJV)
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

reply to post by DeeDee1


If you're going to buy into religion at least get your mythology right - Gabriel was the messenger of god and according to the bible isn't suffering from any kind of "fallen" condition and he even had time to pop over to mohammed and start islam. If you're going to believe a story then at least have the decency to "know" the story. I mean it's not very hard to do a quick google and check your facts out first is it, Sloppy work 2/10.

God does not create these things. These things are a result of people not abiding by God’s Laws

The perspective is drawn form the Bible. Satan is said to be the prince of earth. He is fallen. God created man as an artificial bio-mechanical life form. Reality is real to us, but the universe is created by God. It is a creation, like we create an image in a computer reality. We are 'in' the image of God.

We were tempted with knowledge by Satan in the Garden of Eden. God knew Satan would tempt us so He warned us not to partake of knowledge apart form His leading. Don't eat of the tree. Man had free will as does every creature with spirit (NOUS).

I cannot prove this, but this is my gut feeling. Satan and 1/3 of heaven fell from the graces of God through pride. Satan was banished to earth. This we know from the Bible. We also know that man has a soul. The bio-mechanical suit we wear is a vehicle for the soul. It is essentially a robot that takes care of all the functions necessary for us to ride along. Our hair grows, the rods and cones in our eyes work automatically and so on. We do nothing but observe and make choices that affect ourselves or others. We are here as witnesses of Satan's defeat. We can also implicate ourselves in the crime through pride against God.

Satan is simply the warden of a very large prison. Quiet man actually, thoughtful and he's well read. And I happen to know the idea of sacrificing children in his honour annoys him greatly.

Our job on this earth is to overcome the pride that made us fall. Satan is the one we chose to follow in the Garden. Man always has the choice between God and Satan on an individual level each day. Satan stands for killing, stealing and death. God stands one love for others and to honor, protect and defend by virtue and truth. Our actions define us in these two categories. Good and evil. The tree of knowledge of good and evil. Yes, now you get it.

Why pride?

Pride says that we are all unequal. It says that I am higher and mightier than you. It says that my need override yours. It is the teenager that fails to listen to his teacher because he knows better. He ends up failing in life and missing opportunities because of it. Pride steals from others. It steals, kills and destroys.

God, on the flip side, stands for others in equality. God ensures that we all learn His law of love form the earth and nature. Satan was our choice, but does not need to be now. We have free will with every choice we make. God allows us to live on our own merits.

In the courts of God, He is the judge. We are the witnesses. That was our job and why we were brought here. Satan is the adversary and accuser. Who is the advocate for man do you suppose?

God is in three persons. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We possess these three persons within us. We are Father (Gods light shining in a dark place), Son (Word of God on our hearts) and Holy Spirit (Consciousness). The trinity is explained more thoroughly on my blog. LINK

On judgment day, some of the witnesses will be convicted with Satan by implicating themselves in the crime of pride against God. God demands nothing form us. He offers a gift of salvation form the earth. He only requires our humility before Him in love. We show this by loving others. God is one of the others. Equality under the law of love. God offers you His kingdom if you make it past the test of pride in faith toward Him.

Here is where it really gets good from the love of God. God knows that we cannot defeat pride. Knowing this, He came here personally in the person of Jesus to defeat Satan Himself for our benefit. We all know this story of Jesus. He is then the advocate for us on judgment day against Satan. We will be acquitted through Jesus love for us. One requirement listed in Luke 10. We must love God and love our fellow man, even our enemies. The story of the Good Samaritan is the key. The Samaritan's and the Jews were enemies. Jesus defines your fellow man (neighbor) as even your enemy.

It's all in the Bible. Read it for all it's worth.

Good movie tip. I'll need to catch it. Thank you for the thread.

Originally posted by David_Reale
Ok,

So, this is nothing too serious, just a thought I had. I was watching Nick Cage's new movie, "Drive Angry", the other day, and very much enjoyed William Fichtner's character, "The Accountant". Mostly because he was kickass, fun and cool. Anyway, the Accountant (who, for those who haven't seen the movie, works for Mr Satan himself) said some interesting things during the movie, particularly this quote:

Satan is simply the warden of a very large prison. Quiet man actually, thoughtful and he's well read. And I happen to know the idea of sacrificing children in his honour annoys him greatly.

So, in short, assuming that the whole God and the Devil, Heaven and Hell thingie do exist - do y'all think it's possible that this would be true? That Satan isn't evil and corruption incarnate, but just a "man" (You know what I mean) doing his job?

Well, just a thought that was brought on by the movie. Discuss, bitte!

edit on 13-7-2011 by David_Reale because: (no reason given)

God wanted to play checkers. Satan wanted to play chess. Since God had created the game board he felt he should be allowed to decide which game they would play. Satan disagreed.

As a result God became very angry and banished Satan from the game room.

Satan wasn’t evil. He simply realized he had options and God didn’t like it. A variation of the same story can be found in the first chapter of the bible.

Satan is all the souls going backwards in time inside black holes and various vortex'

Satan is the other flip of the coin.

Satan can only drag you into shallow ideals because our lives do not appear like a journey. Our energy is simply going the wrong way. Our energies may be satanic to those who exist on other plains too.

There is no such thing as evil, except the definition that's derived from Christ's journey.

We're just people banging on around the place. we attribute our own qualities to evil things but it's not real.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

God is in three persons. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We possess these three persons within us. We are Father (Gods light shining in a dark place), Son (Word of God on our hearts) and Holy Spirit (Consciousness). The trinity is explained more thoroughly on my blog.

I was taught this is something that we can never actually comprehend.

Satan cannot be evil. People, things, places are not evil. Actions are evil, and they're only evil depending on one's interpretation of the action. Satan cannot be evil but his deeds could be perceived to be.

Originally posted by David_Reale
Ok,

So, this is nothing too serious, just a thought I had. I was watching Nick Cage's new movie, "Drive Angry", the other day, and very much enjoyed William Fichtner's character, "The Accountant". Mostly because he was kickass, fun and cool. Anyway, the Accountant (who, for those who haven't seen the movie, works for Mr Satan himself) said some interesting things during the movie, particularly this quote:

Satan is simply the warden of a very large prison. Quiet man actually, thoughtful and he's well read. And I happen to know the idea of sacrificing children in his honour annoys him greatly.

So, in short, assuming that the whole God and the Devil, Heaven and Hell thingie do exist - do y'all think it's possible that this would be true? That Satan isn't evil and corruption incarnate, but just a "man" (You know what I mean) doing his job?

Well, just a thought that was brought on by the movie. Discuss, bitte!

edit on 13-7-2011 by David_Reale because: (no reason given)

Dear David Reale.

For the sake of argument I will assume that we are discussing the Devil of the Old and New Testaments as opposed to the Koran. I will further assume that we are assuming that the bible is a fairly accurate account of things, if we do not make these assumptions than I need to know what assumptions we are making. What we know of Satan is limited.

We are told that he was the most beautiful of all the angels, that one day the angels will be under the direction of humans, that Satan revolted and was thrown to the earth. Once on earth he was made sort of the leader of the human leaders. We are told that he attempts to prove that we do not love God; but, are selfish (Job). We are told that he walks the earth trying to show that we are not worthy. We are also made aware of the fact that Satan is not the intelligent, he didn't recognize Jesus positively and attempted to bribe him.

What then is Satan's motivation in the world. Firstly, to prove that we are unworthy of being loved by God and that he is more deserving. It says he accuses us day and night before God. Doesn't sound as if he is our friend. He wants to have us under his thumb and prove that he is better than God by having us worship Satan, that is what it says his plan is.

In the movie you say the man claims that Satan is just the warden; but, in the bible he seems to like that role. Now, how does he treat his inmates? Let's see he eggs people on to be disobedient to God and to allow demons to take over their lives. He believes in entrapment. He is beginning to sound like a petulant, spoiled, narcissistic child. Is that evil?

Sin is anything that falls short of perfection, that does not equate with evil. Evil is the love of money; but, money is just a icon, an example. It is greed, caring more about yourself than others. The inverse is explained by the greatest love which is to give oneself for others. He does not give himself for others, he uses others. His number one concern is being first in God's love. Yep, the qualifies as evil.

The next question is whether or not he should be put in hell forever. It is a choice that he makes. In the bible, in the end of Satan's time on earth, we win. He could apologize or stop from his plan, he knows the consequences; but, he chooses to go to the abyss rather than be under us. I believe the abyss is to be separated from others (a biblical definition).

I see Satan as an older sibling who is jealous of the younger sibling so he is always telling Dad when we have done anything wrong and even blames us for what he does. Does that sound like a good older sibling to have?

reply to post by jeramie

Exactly, the lord of the old testament is Satan, he played god and Satan at the same time.


We take the bible.

We got this:
Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

Compared to this:
Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Same guy.
I think the Lord of the old testament is Satan and the Lord. I find him to be the Lord of the underworld.

While god is something else, we find out in the old testament that the notion of the creator is mixed with lords and other concepts, it's because the bible is mixed and comes from many books, but because of translation and other factors all these god's are merged into one. We also find out from Jesus what god really is, you made a good point.

Well, there is a big family.....the second oldest brother rebels against his parents....he got sent out of the house along with a few brothers and sisters who support his rebellion......you tell me if he is bad or not.
My opinion, this is a typical family quarrel......evil and thing like that only because we see it in our own perspective.....for all I know,,,,God could close this ant farm and open another one in some distant planet....or give this to his once beloved son to end the family quarrel.

That thought mostly comes from the paradox with the following:

There are three views on the trinity. Each presents a paradox to reason. Modalism says that God is one, but acts in three modes over time. Another says that God is in the form of three persons. The third says that God is one and Jesus was just a man.

My perspective shows that modalism and the trinitarian view are one view with no conflict. The unitarian view is simply incorrect.

I see God as one person, but represented in three persons of the trinity. The three persons are Light (particle and wave as one aspect), Son (Logos/Jesus/Word that spoke existence) and Holy Spirit (Consciousness). We also have these three in the form of body (material), mind (Creativity and Nous) and spirit (Consciousness). We are also one person. The trinity is the mirror between, constantly allowing us to see God and Him to see us. It is a mirror, as in a reflection. This is how we are 'in' God's image and in the image of God at the same time. This is v. 27 in Genesis 1. This unites the paradox of modalism and the trinitarian view. It also makes sense from a physics standpoint as well. It allows us to see How God came in the flesh to save humanity. More detail in these links.

LINK LINK
LINK

Originally posted by squandered
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

God is in three persons. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We possess these three persons within us. We are Father (Gods light shining in a dark place), Son (Word of God on our hearts) and Holy Spirit (Consciousness). The trinity is explained more thoroughly on my blog.

I was taught this is something that we can never actually comprehend.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


I'm not quite sure how that post relates to the topic in question - is satan evil. Your post is just an atempt to spread your beliefs about God and religion and adds nothing to the topic in question.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
That thought mostly comes from the paradox with the following:

There are three views on the trinity. Each presents a paradox to reason. Modalism says that God is one, but acts in three modes over time. Another says that God is in the form of three persons. The third says that God is one and Jesus was just a man.

My perspective shows that modalism and the trinitarian view are one view with no conflict. The unitarian view is simply incorrect.

I see God as one person, but represented in three persons of the trinity. The three persons are Light (particle and wave as one aspect), Son (Logos/Jesus/Word that spoke existence) and Holy Spirit (Consciousness). We also have these three in the form of body (material), mind (Creativity and Nous) and spirit (Consciousness). We are also one person. The trinity is the mirror between, constantly allowing us to see God and Him to see us. It is a mirror, as in a reflection. This is how we are 'in' God's image and in the image of God at the same time. This is v. 27 in Genesis 1. This unites the paradox of modalism and the trinitarian view. It also makes sense from a physics standpoint as well. It allows us to see How God came in the flesh to save humanity. More detail in these links.

LINK LINK
LINK

Originally posted by squandered
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

God is in three persons. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We possess these three persons within us. We are Father (Gods light shining in a dark place), Son (Word of God on our hearts) and Holy Spirit (Consciousness). The trinity is explained more thoroughly on my blog.

I was taught this is something that we can never actually comprehend.

edit on 13-7-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

Dear SuperiorEd,

I like what you posted, if I may give a slight variation. We by our most fundamental nature are emotional experiences. More than thought, we live as emotions. We use thought to explain and/or justify our emotions and the actions that we take based on them. If I am happy, I am still me. If I am sad, I am still me and I am still me when I am anything in between.

I separate the trinity by the three basic emotions in the same way that I see a difference between colors. I see demons and angels as limited in emotional breadth and humans as much more complicated emotional beings. We are all human; however, we choose to work within a range of emotions and intensities. We are humanity (one), a reflection of all possible emotions (God) and working from our limited understanding of the rest. Our basis is one; however, our variety is endless and distinctive to us. Be well.

The aspect of Satan is related to this in that it becomes an issue of what aspect of the totality he is, my answer is that he is limited and selfish.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Let's face it.

We haven't heard Satan's side of the story. God's books tell us Satan is evil. But of course it does. It's his book. And yet God goes on to do some horrible things in that book. Satan's big act was to torment Job, but only with God's permission.

I say we need to hear Satan's side to really know.

I object. Hostile witness your honor. This witness has made it known, through out this community, that he is an atheist. Therefore, by his own admission, he lacks a belief in God. By which I believe, renders his testimony
as biased, if not invalid.

Of course there may be the off chance, the witness is in truth a Satanist and like many he chooses to hide behind atheism. For fear of any reprisals from his peers.

Objection sustained let the name of" Traditional Drummer " be stricken from every document.
From every monument and every obelisk. From the book of death and the book of life.
Also let his name be stricken from all text.
From every girls locker room and every bathroom.
Also let no one speak his name that we may blah bla blah bla blah bla. Sorry.

I'm not atheist but are they not allowed to talk about the bible because they don't believe in god? I mean I read a lot of books I know that are fiction, I guess if I don't believe in the story I'm not allowed to talk about it either..... oops..

reply to post by randyvs


Dear randyvs,

I have not read all of the witnesses posts; however, based on your statements and the fact that the witness can respond to them, I make a tentative finding in your favor. The witness cannot claim to be both a atheist and then say that Satan may have a defense. The only out is for him to say that there is a Satan and no God ever existed, in which case he cannot claim that God is bad and Satan good. I do however disagree with your requested punishment, instead I say his words, all of them, will live on forever so that others will know of his insincerity. So it is written, so it shall be.

Originally posted by jheated5
I'm not atheist but are they not allowed to talk about the bible because they don't believe in god? I mean I read a lot of books I know that are fiction, I guess if I don't believe in the story I'm not allowed to talk about it either..... oops..

Dear jheated5,

It is unclear who you are responding to. Having said that, I will answer from my perspective. You don't need to believe in God to answer the OP's question, you need to believe in Satan or at least answer it as a hypothetical. It is illogical to say that one does not believe in the bible or God and then go on to say that God is evil and Satan is good. Beyond on that, if you don't believe in either then what does it matter to you? You could be like many of the unpleasant on this site and ramble on endlessly about how believing in God is like believing in the tooth fairy and then go into a long explanation of why the tooth fairy is evil; but really, don't you have better things to do with your time?

I personally am more than happy to discuss God all day, if your an atheist why would you want to have such a conversation with me? I truly do not understand why atheists bother posting to religious questions at all. I don't bother posting on issues that I don't care about or believe in. If I post a thread to Christians, aimed at them, specifically them, then I will get numerous knee jerk responses from atheists telling me God does not exist and is a fairy tale, what is the point other than to intentionally create a problem and drama.

I am not saying your intent is to do these things, I am talking about what goes on here. The OP asked if Satan was evil, it does make some assumptions. Firstly, it assumes that there is a Satan. Secondly, it assumes there is such a thing as evil. As a consequence, answers that there is no Satan and/or that there is no evil are somewhat unresponsive. Those are opinions and not answers to the question.

It would be the same if an atheist started a thread that said, "As there is no God, can there still be an ultimate good and evil". In answering, I would say, "While I believe there is a God, for the sake of the discussion I will assume that none exists. Therefore as a hypothetical, can there be an ultimate good or evil in a universe with no ultimate answer?" I would then give my answer to the question. In that situation I would have identified my underlying beliefs and worked within the constraints of the question asked, that is both respectful and responsive. At least that is my opinion. Be well.

No, Satan is not evil.

Satan is only a temptor, and according to the Book of Job, Satan tempts mankind with the permission of God! So whatever Satan does, God ok's it. God created Satan and ok's his actions, who's worse?

Satan is NOT ruler of the Hell. This is not stated as such in the Bible at all. It is a myth incorporated into Christianity by the book "Paradise Lost" by John Milton.



"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."
[Deuteronomy 24:16]

Nothing is Satan's fault, we are responsible for our own actions. Satan does not do evil, we do.