Out of body all in the mind?

reply to post by bauldrick


I'm certainly not going to turn to a person who plops a question mark at the end of a statement. I suppose the first grade must be hard when visiting Saturn every day.

I will probably turn to my incredibly gorgeous wife, my faith in a higher being, and if I'm lucky wonderful children and friends. What will you do? Visit the moon in your mind?

reply to post by Domo1


Maybe you should consider projecting yourself to a place where you won't feel the need to make snide comments and belittle legitimate questions regarding the nature of reality under the guise of whatever you call "science".

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


I personally have had an out of body experience, I mean to say that I have witnessed the perspective of being outside of my body. I am not saying that I have bi located but what I am saying is that I was not on drugs, I had not taken anything to induce it the perspective came when I was in a relaxed conscious state. I was able to see for a few minutes a different perspective from another set of eyes. It was indeed life changing.

Because of my personal experience I would have to disagree with the so called scientists and say that our brain works in mysterious ways and that unfortunately these scientists do not always have all the answers and not everything can be answered with a yes and a no.

Im sorry but I have had OBE's and I have also had hypngogic hallucinations and even lucid dreams. They are both very different. Even if I did feel they were halucinations it would not change anything in the slightest, the experiences and lessons learned changed my life in many ways. To me a scientist saying OBE's arent real is like saying the internet is not real. However I dont believe it is as accurate as people make out, for instance going into another room and remembering the colour of a ball then transfering that information into real life. If scientists could actually do tests on the energy they would understand how inconsistent it can be, it is entirely different to solid mass.

Anyway my point is from my own experience it is real, I have had brief converstations with beings that are way more inteligent not so much in language but its hard to explain lol. Some of the landscapes and enviroments are just stunning, it is really something people should first self induce a couple of times then judge for themselves. Honestly even if you decide they are just hallucinations it is worth practising to do, you wont regret it.

I dont practise them anymore though as I have been on a break from meditation and im no new age type person lol, I have no problem saying yes its an halucination but no evidence has made me feel it is anything other than real.

Originally posted by Domo1
Supporting someone who claims they are capable of it is akin to supporting a mad mans delusions. You're just enabling them and making them think the craziness is OK. They need to be in therapy.

Troll much ?

2nd

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

I respect everyone's opinion on this highly speculative topic, especially due to the fact that I, myself, once walked among the doubters. Being a skeptic is relatively normal for any rational dissenting person, because of the numerous -logical- explanations that science has elaborated and the many -rational- reasoning of what these phenomena uly> are, such as the thesis that these are hallucinations produced by the mind, or the theory of the heightened senses.

But how do you know for sure? Especially when you never experienced it first-hand?

It all comes down that you are dependent on a theses of a scientist, who backs his claims up with scientific data. It's fine to form an opinion out of that, it's fine to form an opinion out of the scientific explanations on this topic in general, but in some areas you will have to go further than that in order to discover your own truth -if you want to avoid being manipulated.

reply to post by SunLightyear


You do make a valid point, and i appreciate that.

I geuss, i would have to experience it first hand, to come to a conclusion. I fear however, that my mind will perceive it as nothing more than a dream.

I don't know if i would be able to connect any spiritual or mystical aspects to it.

A logical answer is what my brain will look for, but again, this is mere speculation, and might go many routes.

vvv

The study didn't prove what exactly a so called "OBE" is or isn't. It merely confirmed that a person can be totally immersed in a 3D computer simulation. Anyone who has played a very immersive first person shooter or driving game could have told them that.

Some cases of projections could be forms of lucid dreams, but among other cases there are clairvoyant anomalies. These same anomalies caught the attention of both the US and Soviet militaries and intelligence communities, leading to various projects and programs in both nations during the Cold War and afterwards.

Had the anomalous phenomena been just hallucinations and simpy mental illness, the programs would have been shut down the first year. In the US, the programs publicly and officially lasted 25 years.

Originally posted by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
reply to post by aching_knuckles

 

I also don't see you providing proof, that obe's are indeed real. All i see is a negative flaming comment, while i try to keep this a debate.

vvv

That is all I have seen so far. As one who often travels out of body, I am a little insulted at those who obviously cannot do it, lacking the ability to learn how, or being too lazy to learn how, then turn and attack those who did take the time to learn. When you see your body laying on the bed, and crawl back into it for the first time, you will know it is way more that brain chemicals or hallucinations. Flame on, people, you cannot make it un-real just with that.

The source identifies the study group size of 65 students (other material indicates that some of these claimed to have had OBEs).

Further:

And now scientists have joined the sceptics, saying such events are nothing more than vivid hallucinations - and some of us are predisposed to them.

Researchers at the University of Birmingham claim they occur when “instabilities in the brain” cause people to become disorientated and lose all sense of where their body is.

"Instabilities in the brain" causing hallucinations? Interesting... Since this press release about the same study by the same research team reported.... (all emphasis below is my own)

Milan, Italy, 11 July 2011 – Although out-of-body experiences (OBEs) are typically associated with migraine, epilepsy and psychopathology, they are quite common in healthy and psychologically normal individuals as well. However, they are poorly understood. A new study, published in the July 2011 issue of Elsevier’s Cortex, has linked these experiences to neural instabilities in the brain’s temporal lobes and to errors in the body’s sense of itself – even in non clinical populations.

Dr Jason Braithwaite from the Behavioural Brain Sciences Centre, School of Psychology, University of Birmingham, has been investigating the underlying factors associated with the propensity for normal healthy individuals to have an OBE. As well as informing the scientific theories for how such hallucinations can occur, studying these unusual phenomena can also help us to understand how normal “in-the-body” mental processes work and why, when they break down, they produce such striking experiences.

Dr Braithwaite tested a group of individuals, including some “OBEers”, for their predisposition to unusual perceptual experiences, and found that the OBEers reported significantly more of a particular type of experience: those known to be associated with neuroelectrical anomalies in the temporal lobes of the brain, as well as those associated with distortions in the processing of body-based information. The OBEers were also less skilled at a task which required them to adopt the perspective of a figure shown on the computer screen. These findings suggest that, even in healthy people, striking hallucinations can and do occur and that these may reflect anomalies in neuroelectrical activity of the temporal lobes, as well as biases in “body representation” in the brain.

www.elsevier.com...

While I am not necessarily stating this is so... these studies could just as well be said to have ...

... suggested that as the seat of consciousness removes itself from the physical plane the body loses its coherent compass of physical placement which is normally restrained to the physical world......

I suppose that is as valid a claim as the other because frankly the presumption by the medical researcher is that there is a physical cause for all human experience.... a presumption that is normal for physical scientists that reject the potential for any stimuli and or reality outside their ability to directly measure.

Finally I would like to add that 65 subjects is a pitifully inadequate study sample with which to make such sweeping assumptions about an experience which medical practitioners insist has a single causal genesis; the human brain. For them - "humans" are only brains in bio-mechanical machines. Which is an assumption I feel is far too quickly accepted.

To me it's like this. There is a whole other world beyond this one in which I get better treatment, where beings are just overall nicer and more constructive, where they teach me things I'd already know of but didn't understand, it's like watching tv but all channels are good and interesting, for a few years it was even addictive for me.

In the past I wanted to share this with others hoping it would give them happiness like it worked for me even though I knew it isn't a good thing to go around trying to spread such a message. It's just the idea of a society where people just lie down after work to go to this other world inside their mind and develop that way was too hard to resist, I felt like I at least had to try besides a feeling of guilt of not letting others know or even teaching others how to.

But now I've come to terms with many things, it's not that I don't care about others missing all those things and not being able to share something important to me, it's every man/woman for himself to make themselves happy. I've already wasted too much time arguing with other minds instead of spending time exploring my own mind. If people need to speak out against the beliefs of others, so be it, obviously they feel threatened by the idea itself as if it could come alive in their brain and lead a life of it's own and have no other way of preventing such a thing other than to lash out against those who do believe. In their own minds ofcourse

Originally posted by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter

 

Well, however it might be, the lack of evidence in both regards is a concern.

A while back, my dad had a heart attack, he was in a coma for about a week, and was on life support. It was a terrible time.

He made it through it though, and upon his return, he asked me what i think about obe's, because he thought he might have had one, when in this coma, or a near death experience, to be more exact.

After about a week of being back, and recovering, he told me though, that he thought, he imagined it all, and that nothing really happenned, that he merely imagined it.

So, i still am divided on this matter.

vvv

If you have not dealt with this concept in your life, it would be hard to accept, it goes against what we have been taught. The other evening, I had a guest for dinner whom is 65 and died in Israel, a practical woman, an engineer and is still crippled from her ordeal.

She was topping trees and touched a 75,000 volt wire, throwing her off the ladder, tearing out her knee plus burns throughout her body. She tells me of her being out of body that was on life support for ten days. Each day she would come back and decide if the body was going to be usable any longer, finally making the decision and re-entering it. She also later told her husband all that was said at the scene, and she was clinically dead then.

Since, she never gets upset over anything as she knows we are her for the moment and it is our choice and we make that choice each day we waken. As a side note, I have experienced first hand Obe's, they are real.

As one who often travels out of body, I am a little insulted at those who obviously cannot do it, lacking the ability to learn how, or being too lazy to learn how,

reply to post by autowrench


Mate, i merely wanted a discussion, and was flamed first.

So be it then, clearly you have allready made up your mind, and your input is appreciated.

Thanks

vvv

reply to post by Domo1


I've had 8 out of body experiences... Do I need to be in therapy too???

There is merit to the claim that the majority of such experiences are down to hallucination. However, there are some cases that defy easy explanation. For instance, persons undergoing surgery, totally unconscious, who wake up after the operation and describe in vivid detail things that they could not possibly have perceived whilst unconscious and knocked out on heavy anaesthetics.

I am not sure where I stand on this one. I do not think that our minds have the capability to leave our bodies, and I do not believe we can even learn how to do so, but I am not sure what other explanation there is!

reply to post by Domo1


well why state in last reply you don't believe and science is good and then in your next reply you say you will turn to a higher power
make your mind up do you know what you believe in I doubt very much
and also nde is totally different to astral projection you seem to have the two confused

you need to read a book called The Holographic Universe, it's a start for those who have never heard of the enormous amounts of information by scientific community and also documentations going back more than 200 yrs on a spiritual level. Really worth the read for those who have an attention span of more than 30mins.

I am among those who have experienced this phenomenon. And I have had confirmation of its reality afterward. So I know that we can see and understand things outside of ourselves. I have all the proof I need.

My question has always been: Am I really outside of my body? Or am I tapping into a collective consciousness which makes it seem as though I'm out of my body? Personally, the latter is what I favor. But I would by no means argue with those who believe in an actual seperation, because I just don't know right now.

But OBE's are definitely real in my experience.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
[
Mainstream scientists are paid to lie and even hide what they know and wont even tell us, they even deny the existence of Human Chakras, its not surprising they are calling the out of body experiences all in the mind

What on earth would be gained by scientists lying about out of the body experiences? Where's the gain? There is none.

reply to post by Hawkwind.


It's not really about gaining or losing anything on a personal level; it's about perpetuating a materialistic, purely scientific approach to the universe that leaves no room for the spiritual, suppressing the true nature of what humans are. If a scientist is paid to lie, spread propaganda, or skew results they very well may do so, as we've seen throughout history and modern times, nearly ANYONE can be bribed and/or blackmailed/threatened. I've only experienced one OBE and that alone was enough to [re]confirm my belief in the spiritual aspect of the human consciousness.