Obama says ending tax breaks required to cut deficit, page 1

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Topic started on 2-7-2011 @ 12:55 PM by David9176

"Now, it would be nice if we could keep every tax break, but we can't afford them," Obama said in his weekly radio and Internet address. "Because if we choose to keep those tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires, or for hedge fund managers and corporate jet owners, or for oil and gas companies pulling in huge profits without our help - then we'll have to make even deeper cuts somewhere else."

"We've got to say to a student, 'You don't get a college scholarship.' We have to say to a medical researcher, 'You can't do that cancer research.' We might have to tell seniors, 'You have to pay more for Medicare,'" he said.

"That isn't right, and it isn't smart. We've got to cut the deficit, but we can do that while making investments in education, research and technology that actually create jobs."

news.yahoo.com...

It's about damn time!!!! I don't know how this can even be so difficult to stand for when the majority of Americans think the wealthy should pay more in taxes, especially in a time of record corporate profits and exploding wealth disparity. To expect the working middle class, the poor, and unemployed to take all the pain is ridiculous.

edit on 2-7-2011 by David9176 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:02 PM by sonofliberty1776

Because the government already confiscates enough money. They need to stop spending so damn much. How hard is that to understand? If you are low on money stop spending. Stop spending on stuff you don't need and pay only for essentials. Cut foreign aid. End the BS wars. Disband the TSA. Cut the dept of education(students have gotten dumber and dumber every year since it was implemented). Cut corporate welfare. Cut all other types of welfare, it is all unconstitutional at the federal level. If the several states want socialistic redistributionism in their states, there is nothing to stop the states from enacting it. BUT at the federal level it is unconstitutional. Their powers are clearly delineated. Any powers not SPECIFICALLY GIVEN to the federal government in the Constitution are retained by the people and the several states.

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:04 PM by buster2010

I always laugh when I hear people cry about taxes then complain about the bad economy. History shows that when taxes go up the economy goes up. When tax breaks are given the economy goes down. Clinton raised taxes just a little and had a surplus Bush came in office gave out the tax breaks and everything started to go down hill.

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:06 PM by Misoir

Originally posted by David9176
I don't know how this can even be so difficult to stand for when the majority of Americans think the wealthy should pay more in taxes

That sounds a lot like democracy to me. Whatever happened to opposing tyranny of the majority? If the majority of Americans wanted all the mentally ill castrated would that be something good to stand for too? The people are definitely not the legitimate source from which to draw legal decisions as they are willing to trade someone else's rights for their own.

Besides do you think the US House of Representatives would vote in favor of these tax increases? Not a chance. They promised Americans 'no new taxes' and would hate to end up like Bush, Sr. in 1992.

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:07 PM by vjr1113

Originally posted by buster2010
I always laugh when I hear people cry about taxes then complain about the bad economy. History shows that when taxes go up the economy goes up. When tax breaks are given the economy goes down. Clinton raised taxes just a little and had a surplus Bush came in office gave out the tax breaks and everything started to go down hill.

depends who the tax breaks go to. there is no middle class anymore. the distribution of wealth is so crazy, it's laughable.

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:07 PM by TheOneElectric

Épater la bourgeoisie

For too long they have brainwashed us that this was the proper way. They convinced us that their corporations and banks were to maintain the majority of the wealth. For too long we have eaten the lies of the free market. There is no free market, for the second anyone is given the chance they shall act upon greed to eliminate competition or maximize profit. When this occurs, the free market is now controlled by the biggest dog in the room and because of the system's reliance upon greed this shall always be the case, in every practice of the economic theory.

It is time that we no longer allow them to have tax breaks, loop holes, or evasion. It is time that they pay their worth. They have more money than royal monarchs of the past, and we the middle class work as their serfs, servants, and slaves so that their wealth is kept at exponential increase.

Give 'em hell Barry. If they decide to "take their business overseas" they were not for America's interest in the first place. They were for profit and they were for greed. Our interests were never in their eyes.

Tax the rich, for the back of the middle class has been broken....NAY, NAY I SAY
I must correct myself! The lie of the middle class has been revealed. There is no such class, there are only two of us in this room. The haves, and the have nots. Let us take back from those who profit from our tireless labor and blood. Let them share our burden and understand our woes.

Let justice reach their gold plated halls of decadence and avarice!

Tax them, and tax them damn good.

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:11 PM by David9176

reply to post by Misoir

Whatever happened to opposing tyranny of the majority?

As opposed to the minority's tyranny that has had control of our country for how long now??

Misoir, ending tax breaks for those who don't need them is hardly tyrannical...especially when it those who helped tank our entire economy in the first place.

edit on 2-7-2011 by David9176 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:14 PM by buster2010

Originally posted by vjr1113

Originally posted by buster2010
I always laugh when I hear people cry about taxes then complain about the bad economy. History shows that when taxes go up the economy goes up. When tax breaks are given the economy goes down. Clinton raised taxes just a little and had a surplus Bush came in office gave out the tax breaks and everything started to go down hill.

depends who the tax breaks go to. there is no middle class anymore. the distribution of wealth is so crazy, it's laughable.

Your right even Reagen who gave huge tax cuts to the rich raised taxes 5 or 6 times. So it's time to say to the wealthy your decades long ride on the gravy train needs to come an end.

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:15 PM by Misoir

reply to post by David9176

"Every country has the government it deserves" - Joseph de Maistre

If you want to strip the minority of majority power then please, be my guest. But do not strip them of their rights at the same time. Two wrongs have never made a right.

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Mahatma Gandhi

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:16 PM by Rockdisjoint

Originally posted by buster2010
I always laugh when I hear people cry about taxes then complain about the bad economy. History shows that when taxes go up the economy goes up. When tax breaks are given the economy goes down. Clinton raised taxes just a little and had a surplus Bush came in office gave out the tax breaks and everything started to go down hill.

Only if you're using GDP......

Raise taxes for the rich to 100%, middle class at 95%, and the poor at 90% and our economy would look beyond amazing. Although we would all live in misery.

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:19 PM by lifeissacred

It's about time! Though something tells me nothing will come of this speech, I've never trusted Obama to get anything done, not that it's entirely his fault but he isn't exactly taking charge of the situation.

However if Obama manages to get something like this done then it will make up for his dismal performances elsewhere.

edit on 2-7-2011 by lifeissacred because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:21 PM by TheOneElectric

reply to post by Misoir

No rights are being taken away from them. It is about sharing the burden of taxes. The rich do not pay the same percentage of their income as the poor when it comes to taxes in the United States.

www.washingtonpost.com...

washingtonpost.com > Business Buffett Slams Tax System Disparities TOOLBOX Resize Print E-mail Reprints By Tomoeh Murakami Tse Washington Post Staff Writer Wednesday, June 27, 2007 NEW YORK, June 26 -- Warren E. Buffett was his usual folksy self Tuesday night at a fundraiser for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) as he slammed a system that allows the very rich to pay taxes at a lower rate than the middle class. Buffett cited himself, the third-richest person in the world, as an example. Last year, Buffett said, he was taxed at 17.7 percent on his taxable income of more than $46 million. His receptionist was taxed at about 30 percent. Buffett said that was despite the fact that he was not trying to avoid paying higher taxes. "I don't have a tax shelter," he said. And he challenged Congress and his audience to see what the people who "clean our offices" are taxed, to loud applause. A populist tone permeated the 70-minute talk with the billionaire investor and philanthropist in Manhattan on Tuesday night. The talk, given to about 600 Wall Street bankers and money managers, raised at least $1 million for Clinton's presidential campaign, the Associated Press reported. The event comes as public frustration has grown over executive compensation and disparity in pay. It also comes as Congress debates changes to the tax code that would decrease take-home pay for managers of private-equity firms and hedge funds, pools of money for wealthy families and institutional investors. The rich can take advantage of tax loopholes, including one that allows those managers to pay the capital gains tax rate of 15 percent instead of the ordinary top income tax rate of 35 percent. Buffett said that he and other privileged Americans must do more to help the less fortunate.

This must not continue. Some form of Equality must stand. I have not even begun to call for Economic Patriotism, where in which the Rich pay higher percentages of their income than the poor, no, I simply ask that they pay the same....for now.

edit on 2-7-2011 by TheOneElectric because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:22 PM by David9176

reply to post by Misoir

But do not strip them of their rights at the same time. Two wrongs have never made a right.

What rights are being stripped here? Aren't these the same entities that have using our government to hurt our rights and well being?

The Republicans better shape up on this issue, people will not forget and they will see who they stand for. You can't expect such drastic spending cuts to people who need help without the corporations paying more in taxes...many of whom are paying NO TAXES.

They are the ones who need to be held accountable and it's about damn time they pay into the system they corrupt.

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:22 PM by buster2010

Originally posted by Rockdisjoint

Originally posted by buster2010
I always laugh when I hear people cry about taxes then complain about the bad economy. History shows that when taxes go up the economy goes up. When tax breaks are given the economy goes down. Clinton raised taxes just a little and had a surplus Bush came in office gave out the tax breaks and everything started to go down hill.

Only if you're using GDP......

Raise taxes for the rich to 100%, middle class at 95%, and the poor at 90% and our economy would look beyond amazing. Although we would all live in misery.

Alot of America is in misery now so what would be the difference? So it's ok for part of America to be in misery just leave the wealthy out it? Like the old saying goes you reap what you sow.

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:22 PM by beezzer

reply to post by David9176

"Now, it would be nice if we could keep every tax break, but we can't afford them,"

Right there, from the OP's quote. We can't afford them? It's NOT THEIR MONEY!!!
Obama seems to think that it is HIS money.
Wrong.

It's my money. It's you and you and you and your money. It's not HIS!
He can't afford to take less?

It is not his money.
He is taking all of our money.
And he is building a case where he needs to take more because he can't afford not to.

Unbelievable!

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:22 PM by Misoir

reply to post by David9176

I never said it was tyrannical. What I was saying is that your basis for defending it, i.e. the majority of Americans support it, is not something I could agree with. You assumed my position was one of opposing the tax cuts when in reality I neither publicly supported or opposed it.

My personal opinion on it is mixed to be honest. During the 1920s Secretary of the Treasury Andrew Mellon set forth to formulate a plan which would raise revenue while cutting taxes and it actually worked, another benefit of his plan was that the poorer Americans paid far less compared to the tax structure before.

Link

But then we also have the comparison of the Clinton tax increases which spurred economic growth (albeit a false growth) and the Bush tax cuts which did nothing to improve the economy or revenue.

So for me I am on the fence with this issue.

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:25 PM by David9176

reply to post by beezzer

Yeah, to hell with it. Let's just let corporations do whatever the hell they want. They are doing a hell of a job. They love China so much I'm sure they'd love the same conditions here.

Let's go the opposite way and destroy minimum wage....that's tyrannical forcing businesses to pay a minimum amount. hell, that's just a hidden tax right?

I'm sick of all the bull.

Let's get rid of all safety laws too, this is tyrannical. How can we force businesses to keep workers safe? It costs them money. It's basically just another tax.

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:26 PM by OuttaTime

Originally posted by David9176

"Now, it would be nice if we could keep every tax break, but we can't afford them," Obama said in his weekly radio and Internet address. "Because if we choose to keep those tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires, or for hedge fund managers and corporate jet owners, or for oil and gas companies pulling in huge profits without our help - then we'll have to make even deeper cuts somewhere else."

"We've got to say to a student, 'You don't get a college scholarship.' We have to say to a medical researcher, 'You can't do that cancer research.' We might have to tell seniors, 'You have to pay more for Medicare,'" he said.

"That isn't right, and it isn't smart. We've got to cut the deficit, but we can do that while making investments in education, research and technology that actually create jobs."

news.yahoo.com...

It's about damn time!!!! I don't know how this can even be so difficult to stand for when the majority of Americans think the wealthy should pay more in taxes, especially in a time of record corporate profits and exploding wealth disparity. To expect the working middle class, the poor, and unemployed to take all the pain is ridiculous.
edit on 2-7-2011 by David9176 because: (no reason given)

It would be nice if it worked out they way we would imagine it to be. I can see this having 2 scenarios.
1- The wealthy will shut up, pay their taxes and learn to be model companies/individuals.
2- The 'targets' of this plan relocate to another country leaving us high and dry, and holding the bill - including their share of delinquent taxes. Or their US accounts will be moved offshore.

He is right that we need to invest in our future, but his idea of jobs and our idea of jobs are vastly different. His paradigm of 'growth' is to go deeper in debt to fund overweight banks and loan loan loan to smaller banks, who will HAVE to loan loan loan in order to maintain asset/profit projections. In their ideology, it is more of a global consolidation of UN resources and law. I mentioned in another thread about Obama's last act of futility of 'green jobs and renewable energy' where our prospect of wind turbine energy was outsourced to China. It just happened again with the San Francisco bridge. China is building it in modules to be assembled here. Again, the money/jobs were sent overseas. Why? Because we (Cali) could not afford it from scratch? Oh that's right, we jumped through our asses to strip down the WTC wreckage and get it to China asap. So we get to buy it back at a higher cost. But we're saving money right?

I did electrical work at an international engineering firm that built modular petrochemical & pharmaceutical plants in shippable modules, to be re assembled at another location. Basically turn-key. Most of those projects ended up in other locations outside this country. Puerto Rico mainly. They paid us well to build them, but since they are assembled in another country, they pay no taxes.
Presidents have been talking about tax cuts for decades, but in the end, the lobbyists/PACs/SIGs always get their way, since they sponsor our puppet presidents and congressmen. The rich continue to dodge taxes and hide in tax loopholes, and we get to bail them out. Any future intent to raise the debt ceiling would be greatly detrimental to positive healthy financial growth. Their concept of credit is based on leveraging debt and synthetic assets using the Fractional Reserve Banking (or Money Mechanics). For them to increase the debt ceiling by $1T dollars, they would leverage over $10T in vapor credit and ethereal assets, backed by 'dark pools of liquidity'.

Sorry so long winded, but I have zero faith in our govt 'doing the right thing'. They've become patsies to global financial institutions and capitalist corporations with ugly distorted selfish agendas. I don't think Obama is the primary liar, but I do think he's a loyal mouthpiece for chocolate starfish like Soros and Govt Sachs.

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:27 PM by sonofliberty1776

How about asking "the poor" to pay ANY taxes. Currently almost half of the electorate pays no income taxes at all. Most of them at the lower end of the scale. Thus, by default, the rich pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes. We definitely need a fair tax system(if we have to have taxes at all, which I oppose). Either the "Fair Tax" or at least a Flat Tax. Where every single person pays the exact same percentage on every single dollar earned(regardless of how it is earned).

EDIT: With no deductions or loopholes of any sort, for anyone.

edit on 2-7-2011 by sonofliberty1776 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 2-7-2011 @ 01:27 PM by buster2010

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by David9176

"Now, it would be nice if we could keep every tax break, but we can't afford them,"

Right there, from the OP's quote. We can't afford them? It's NOT THEIR MONEY!!!
Obama seems to think that it is HIS money.
Wrong.

It's my money. It's you and you and you and your money. It's not HIS!
He can't afford to take less?

It is not his money.
He is taking all of our money.
And he is building a case where he needs to take more because he can't afford not to.

Unbelievable!