Ghosts of flight 401

reply to post by 2manyquestions


Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. But yes, I'd never heard of this story before I watched the documentary, but it seems that Eastern Airlines went to great lengths to suppress the story, but as another poster suggested, perhaps the story goes largely ignored as there is just too many witness testimonies to deny the events and that challenges a lot of peoples beliefs and understanding, so better to just brush it under the carpet.

But I agree it is a real shame that Eastern airlines would not allow further investigations as it could have turned up some really interesting information.

Originally posted by Ivar_Karlsen

Originally posted by destination nowYes, I read a forum discussion about that statement "No other plane will crash" and it seems that it was taken in two ways, firstly that no other plane would crash, which was obviously wrong and the other take that no other plane will crash due to mistakes by the flight crew, which the second crash was not, it was (I think) an engine failure.

I guess what Repo might have said was that no other L1011 will be lost in a crash like this.

Delta Air Lines flight 191 got caught in a Microburst.

All we've got to go on is his quote: "There will never be another L1011 crash." (slightly paraphrased because I'm too lazy to get up and look it up.) He didn't say "Like this one" or use any other qualifying statement and he specifically mentioned the L1011. There were a number of other incidents involving L1011's where they ALMOST crashed, but the only one that was a "crash" in the conventional sense of the term was the Texas crash.

I suppose we can speculate that he actually meant something else (and we ARE discussing a talking ghost here, after all), but I just don't see any evidence that can take us there. Understand that I'm not suggesting none of this happened, just that the apparition was wrong. I have the book and have read the others (Crash and "My search") and seen the movie where Ernest Borgnine played the character. For some reason I have fixated on this incident. I can just see Borgnine saying those words even after all these years. Don't know why.

reply to post by schuyler

I suppose we can speculate that he actually meant something else (and we ARE discussing a talking ghost here, after all)

This is very true... we have to take what the witnesses said and take it from there. But I totally agree that it's such a fascinating story, it really gripped me as soon as I heard about it, even to the point of authoring this thread (and I never start threads...apart for one in the rant section) and I can't wait to read the book (got some Amazon vouchers for my birthday so now know what I will spend them on!)

If you can, be sure and get "My search for" by Elizabeth Fuller. It really adds a lot to the story!

I, too, remember seeing the movie with Ernest Borgnine. I also remember being pretty creeped out after watching it. Thank You OP for posting this, Interesting story

interesting to say the least.
now i am a huge fan of ghost stories - even though from a religious standpoint they do not fit in with the rest of it...stil trying to work that one out...
but i still love to research the phenomonon (bet i spelled that one wrong!)
This story reminded me a lot of the scole experiments. Has anyone ever looked into that. I know people have put forth arguments trying to debunk scole - forgive me if i am touting something already debunked, but i think it is valid.
In scole, the mediums were in contact with people that had in this life been scientists, inventors. Over "there" they were allowed to continue their work. Thomas Eddison was one of them. They were allowed to keep working on research, and were given permission to work on ways to be in reliable contact with people still alive.
The story of Repo sounds similar - he was allowed to continue after his death what he had done in his life, and seemingly with the goal of preventing more unnecessary crashes.
Completely crappy that the airline took the parts out. If I owned an airline i would be super happy to know that i had supernatural help keeping the planes in the air!!

Thank you for sharing the story. I've read similar stories and actually have a few "ghost/apparition" stories I'd like to share.
When I was about eight years old I wanted to play out during a winter evening with my cousin Sandy but my parents wouldn't let me, so I went to my older sister's room and sat under her unusually high metal bed where there was plenty of room to sit upright. I don't know why I chose there of all places to sulk but I was there by myself for a few minutes still silently fuming when Sandy came and sat next to me, she looked unhappy about it too so we just sat there in silence for a few more minutes with a few gripes here and there. All of a sudden it was as though there were a shift in the atmosphere and I looked at Sandy and noticed right next to her, was her older sister Krissy, looking at both of us individually, me first then Sandy. She was serious, silent, almost curious looking and her mouth was closed the entire time. Sandy and I both looked from the apparition to eachother at the exact same time and simultaneously started screaming, as I was closest to the door I was about to get outta there first,not daring to look back. But Sandy, who was really freaked since she was right next to the apparition of her sister who IS alive and well by the way, put her arm in front of me and thrust herself ahead of me pushing me backwards keeping me in the room for what felt like a couple seconds. The real Krissy was out in the living room and was a bit disturbed that whatever it was, it took on her form.
Years later my younger sister and I were in my room when I left to use the bathroom, I was heading back upstairs when my sister came out of my room obviously scared as if she were trying to keep herself from panicking. She told me that she was playing with her hair in front of the mirror or something like that I can't remember exactly what she said she was doing but that she looked into the mirror and saw me standing at the doorway dressed all in red. She said that she quickly turned around whilst saying, "finally done using the bathroom.." or something to that effect, but I wasn't there so she went out of the room and saw me coming up the stairs. I was wearing a grey shirt and blue jeans and had absolutely no red on me whatsoever. Years later when the subject was brought up, my sister admitted to me that she wasn't really fixing herself in the mirror she was snooping through my stuff because she thought they were cool and interesting. lol There are other stories of mine that come to mind but it would take an awefully long time for me to explain myself. Thanks for bringing up the fact that average every-day people do experience the phenomenal.

reply to post by chrissiel123


Thanks. Yes, I can understand why people are sometimes reluctant to believe these stories, but there is just so many reliable witnesses it's difficult to dismiss. Like you though I can't believe that Eastern Airlines went out of their way to hush it up and stop the hauntings...I would have been encouraging it so that we could learn more.

I haven't heard of the scoles experiment, can you tell me anything else about it. Thanks

reply to post by destination now

oh, you haven't heard of scole!!! It is such an interesting topic, be you a believer or skeptic, it is a fun subject matter.
Two couples onebeing a medium (maybe all of them, but i scpecificaly remember one) was in touch with a spirit, who gave them location and instructions on how to build and design their lab, with the purpose of conducting experiments to see if relieble and stable communications between both sides could be established. there was a basement of a house in scole, england, that had "lines" running under it, making it the best place there to try. They sealed the basement to eliminate 100% percent of light, painted it pitch black, and held dceances there. as they continued their meetings, the connection became stronger adn stronger. They began seeing lights and orbs moving and darting around the room, while all four were holding hands. The spirit team understood about the skeptisism of us here, so gave the medium team guidance on how to keep it away.the medium team began wearing glow in the dark wristbands so each of them would know that the four of them were not leaving the circle to make these lights appear. Then things appeared to them, solid objects just dropped onto the table in front of them A silver shain, a newspaper, etc, out of nowhere, but each item had a special significance to one of the four in the medium team. They were given instructions to bring cameras into this lightfree room and were told when to snap pictures, or else leave the camera on the table and it would be heard taking pictures by itself. rolls of film, still factory sealed and leave them on the table during these sessions, with the entire group taking the sealed package to a developer to be exposed. They got some strange looks when they asked the guy there to develope an unused roll of film! But the film indeed contained writing, pictures of "over there" a shot from the headline of a newspaper from the 1940's, and the signature of T.Eddison. They were given instructions on how to set up a tv and a mirror and video camera in a way to magnify the white noise screen images they were told would be there, adn they filmed some very clear images of faces, one of them being an entity named Blue, that was not or never was human.
they have invited many scientists, skeptics and such - nasa people too i believe - one of them brought the requested unopened film, but brought it in a locked box and held it in his lap the entire time, and accompanied them to the developer, where he unlocked the box himself and handed the film over - it too had exposeures on it.
They have tried to set up the experiments in other places to give proof, not very successfully - apparently the scole location was the best they could find, which meant that when asked to verify their research in controlled locations they were not always able to, and this has fueled the main skeptic debate about them.
I am not saying i am a sucker and elieve them, but after looking through all they have done, and their creepy pics, it is hard to say it has to be a scam.
they eventually were told by the spirit team that their permission for these experiments had expired and they had to devote their time to other things, and the scole experiments stopped for a time. last i heard they were trying to get the team back together.

here is a link to a page of links containing the photographs they have shared with the public:

www.thescoleexperiment.com...

there used to be a beautiful image, of the place where many on the other side go to vacation. t blurryn and surreal looking - it appeared to be a great lake, with pyramids in the center. ic ant find that pic today.

as i said before there are still skeptics of the scole experiments, you can google to find their reasons why it could be faked - i think the main one is that they were not abele to re-create the results outside of their basement. they said it had to be there because of the energies. i am not 100% sold on scole, but if anyone wants to discuss - i am in. it is a fascinating topic. maybe should have a new thread here. it was mentioned on ats many years ago, but nothing recently.

reply to post by chrissiel123


Never heard of this incident either, but sounds interesting. The NASA guy who brought a brand new package of film in a box, which he kept on his lap and then accompanied them to the developers,.... was he present throughout the development of the film? Who's to say that the camera shop or person who was developing these films wasn't switching cartridges when they weren't looking? All it takes is a second of slight of hand. I'm thinking that unless he himself brings the film and he is the only person to ever handle the film from beginning to end, there will be questions of authenticity. It's difficult to say with these things. I've had plenty of experiences myself. They seemed very real to me, but it's funny how skeptical I am when it comes to other peoples' stories.

reply to post by 2manyquestions


I cant find the reference right now to the nasa scientist, except a part that says he was beyond satisfied as to the legitimacy of the experiment. But i have a copy/pase (sorry it is a bit long) that describes how they went about conducting their experiments, and the measures taken to try to keep tampering out of the question:

"We were, (until April 1996) receiving what can only be described as 'individual' or 'separate' images, that appeared at intervals along the length of the films. These images were extremely diverse in content, some from many different areas of our planet and some from what has been described as other areas of existence or other dimensions of life! (perhaps an after life) ? To me, the important thing here is, although these early images were a type of communication in themselves (and of course a very important one) you always had the feeling that 'they' were showing us what could be achieved, sometimes giving us glimpses into another world. The communication itself seemed to be limited to some extent to a Pictorial and sometimes abstract form, in other words, mainly pictures and seldom words. This is in no way a criticism, but an observation of what was happening, up until this point in time.

It was, to our astonishment, during a session in April 1996 that all that changed. That particular experimental session was in itself very different to our normal sessions, as we had three eminent gentlemen from the S.P.R. (Society for Psychical Research) as our guests. There were other experiments in Progress at that time (some experiments are over a period more than one session) and we had of course hoped for a successful result on the Polaroid film, but none of us were prepared for what occurred on that occasion. At that time, for security purposes we were sealing the films in their containers and asking our guests to sign over the seals. Some would even place secret marks of their own on the seals without telling us, something in fact we welcomed in the desire for greater evidentiallity. After this memorable session the seals were checked and the container opened by one of our guests, the film remaining in their possession from then on. The processor was prepared and checked and the film placed in position ready to be developed. The unit was then closed and processing took place, this usually only takes about two minutes after which the unit bleeps on completion.

When this film was removed from the processor and examined, it would be a gross understatement to say that a tremendous amount of excitement broke out, as everyone wanted to see what had occurred. On closer inspection it became obvious that due to the quantity of information on this film, that notes should be taken, in detail for research purposes, prior to having the film sent away to a photographic laboratory for copying and enlarging. (It is our policy now to have all films copied as quickly as possible due to the fragile nature of these Polaroid films). As everyone studied the film hoping to understand, even if only a small part of what had been written on the film, one of our distinguished guests commented "I think this is history in the making". I'm sure you can all imagine the excitement that evening. None of us there, I am sure, will ever forget it.

The film used was a Polaroid Polapan slide film, which has produced white (lettering) on a blue background. The affected area covers approximately 13 inches (330mm) in length and is more or less covered in writing over this area. The words (all legible) are written lengthways, not across the film. Here it is, in order as it appears on the film;

a) A quotation in French ;
"Ce n'est que le premier pas des coute" ('this is but the first step')

b) An eight character word in Greek about 1 1/4 inches (32mm) long.

c) A six-line poem about 8 inches(203mm) long.
This refers to the planets, Earth and the Sun.

) Greek characters (22) approx. 2 1/4 inches (54mm) long.

) A signature, written in reverse and yet still it could be authenticated.

f) Another signature, again in reverse but as yet not identified

This film became known as the 'Diotima' film."
taken from the scole website. Again, not saying this is all 100% true, but it is interesting reading. if it is a hoax, it is an elaborate and expensive one, and many experts will have been made fools of!

reply to post by 2manyquestions


sorry for the double reply - tried to edit my prev reply, but was over the time limit. May have gotten my data mixed up as I cant find teh nasa dude with the box. There were nasa dudes, but i found this page with mention of a german couple that held a box of photographic film and refused to let anyone else handle it. When developed, they discovered a german poem, written in old style german (circa late 1800's) the style was believed similar to the man that translated the koran to german and was also a famous poet, but the poem does not exist in his anthalogy. if you click on this link you can actually see the film negative with the poem on it.
www.thescoleexperiment.com...

reply to post by chrissiel123


Wow! Had a quick look through it and it seems fascinating, though I'll need to take some time to read it all properly, but I do understand why people are sceptical when the experiments could not be replicated anywhere else, but overall it seems like more proof of an entire dimension that we just do not understand.

Just because we cannot always see, hear, touch etc elements in these unknown dimensions, it doesn't mean that they do not exist and experiments like the scole ones and the large number of credible witnesses in the ghosts of flight 401 case, seem to point towards the existence of these dimensions (calling them dimensions for want of a better description)

I just hope that there can be further, serious investigation into paranormal phenomena in the future, so that we can understand more about it

reply to post by destination now


yes, the two cases do have similarities, in that in this other dimension - given that both cases are true - spirits were encouraged to continue working because it gave them purpose and joy, and were allowed to help people over here at times. It is unfortunate that the airline destroyed the evidence, choosing not to investigate it first. With Scole, they tried their hardest to investigate everything, inviting as many skeptics as they could, allowing their basement room, table equipment, everything to be examined to their skeptics' satisfaction. As I said before, if it was all a hoax, it was not an easy one for the group to pull off. They actually taught other people in different places with similar energies how to conduct their tests, and some of it worked. the one picture that really got to me and produced an emotion and i cant find it now, was the picture of the pyramids, where they would go for vacations and rest. it was so pretty and surreal. i wonder how many other cases like these two are out there that we do not know about.

oh wait - editing here, to add a link to a page that has the photograph of the pyramid! It is small, lower quality than the one i had seen years ago. This pic, like most of their pics, were exposed to no light, the images put their while the roll of film was still sealed in its factory packaging an then immediately developed. how can images like this come from nowhere? Even as a skeptic i have such a hard time disbelieving this story.
Here is an interesting excerpt from the page i found the picture on, stating that the group actually did manage to get their experiments to work outside of scole - this one was in californis in a school basement gymnasium:

"The Scole team travelled to California and demonstrated their results in nine separate sessions. One was a "scientists session" for NASA and representatives of Stanford University. The Scole team did not know who was going to attend or where the session would be held, and before the demonstration began the scientists searched the room, a basement gymnasium. A Native American materialized during the session, dancing and chanting, and drums which were mounted high on the wall began to beat. Then familiar spirits appeared, calling some of the scientists by name though their identities were unknown to the Scole team, and explained to the group that the area was an ancient sacred site, and the peoples who had lived there long ago were influencing the session.

"Interestingly," the Solomons write, "some of the astrophysicists later started a group of their own." "

the pic and article are here:
rigorousintuition.blogspot.com...

The response to one of my posts strikes me as kind of interesting. I had stated that the flight engineer himself stated in one of his appearances that there would never be another crash of an L-1011, but there was, in texas, when over 100 people were killed. I wasn't implying that there was no apparition. I was simply stating that as it turned out, his prediction was wrong, period.

Yes this was the reaction. Note: one was a PM.

1. Well, he actually meant another crash of an Eastern Airlines Flight and the second crash was a Delta.

2. Well, he actually meant if he was there to protect the, but when they took the parts out, he could no longer control the situation.

3. Well, he meant a crash due to pilot error, but the crash in Texas was not ruled pilot error.

I just wonder why people are adding things to his statement that he did not say in order to keep the idea alive that his statement was still true. His statement was that there would NEVER be another crash of an L-1011. He DID NOT mention the name of the airline. He DID NOT indicate he had any control. He DID NOT mention pilot error. All those things were added for no reason. They are not supported by the evidence in any way.

I am a firm believer that there is a paranormal aspect to reality, but when we get in these situations I am also a firm believer that we must go where the evidence takes us. We should not add stuff in or make stuff up just so that we can speculate that maybe that's the issue. You may as well make up your own story entirely if you want to do that. It's just that you cannot get there from THIS story, and you're doing it a disservice to do so.

reply to post by schuyler



I totally agree, there seems to be no dispute as to what Repo allegedly said (saying allegedly because as you pointed out before these witnesses were recounting the tale of an apparent apparition of a dead crew member talking to them) and I think there are enough credible witnesses to the strange events on various Eastern Airlines aircraft following the tragic accident of flight 401, that there is certainly no need to embellish any of it.

I am not sure of the chronology of events (still waiting for book to arrive) did the Texas crash happen after the salvaged items were removed? If so, I suppose we could speculate that perhaps if the paranormal activity had continued unchecked, that the accident may have been prevented. However, if memory serves me correctly, the subsequent crash of the L1011 (caused by a microburst...thanks to the poster that refreshed my memory on that) albeit tragic, had various important implications for weather detection and flight safety in the form of doppler radar being utilised on all commercial jets, which has potentially saved many other lives since.

It's a pity that the poster did not just post their thoughts on the thread, then we could all have had a discussion about the implications of what Don Repo apparently said.

reply to post by destination now


The Texas crash was 1985, so we have well over a decade of separation between the two. Wasn't 401 in the 70's? I think so.

To refresh the storyline: The issue is that parts from the crashed plane were salvaged and re-used on other airplanes in Eastern's fleet. That's pretty strange right there, isn't it? The incidents happened on airplanes which had some of those parts installed. One, as I recall, was a microwave oven door where he appeared as if on a TV screen. When they finally figured out the pattern the parts were quietly removed and the incidents stopped.

The reported statement was that there would be no more L-1011 crashes. With the benefit of forty years of hindsight, we know that is not true. I do not think we can credibly add anything to that statement. That's a big problem in paranormal research: People make stuff up, then you spend time dealing with made up stuff and often can't discern the difference between made up stuff and real stuff. That's how mythology starts.

But we can deal with the statement. Taken at face value, why would he have said that? There is no evidence he was being deceptive. He must have thought it was true. That means he either thought he knew on his own, or he was told. I am of the opinion that one does not gain access to all the knowledge of the Universe when one passes over. It's a learning process. Extrapolating from hundreds of other recorded incidents, there isn't any evidence that people become instant geniuses. We also know the statement is untrue, which is additional evidence that he did not have the knowledge personally. We are left with the idea that someone told him and he believed it well enough to repeat it. This then becomes a cascading series of extrapolations that knows no end. My conclusion is that somewhere along this line someone was either mis-informed or intentionally deceptive. How that happened is anyone's guess.

This is by far the simplest explanation. To get anywhere else we have to torture the explanation, speculate wildly, or make stuff up. My question is: Why is that necessary? Can it not simply be a falsehood? What compels any of us to have this statement be true? In other words, why is it necessary for the original statement to be true? It doesn't shake the story a bit. He was just wrong. Meh? Happens.

And stop with the PMs. What's up with that? If you have something to say, by all means make your case.

reply to post by schuyler

And stop with the PMs. What's up with that? If you have something to say, by all means make your case.

I have only ever talked about what I know about the case...I stated in a previous post that my research on Don Repo's alleged apparition's words had come from a forum where there was speculation about what he meant when he said that no other L1011's would crash, and have on several occasions within the thread agreed that it is probably best to stick with what he allegedly said and accept that it is strange enough an occurance without having to embellish it.

I have never sent you a pm until this morning after I read your post...here is the pm I sent you in full for the whole of ATS to see!

Flight 401 thread

Hi

Thanks for making such a valuable contribution to the thread, it is really good to get input from someone as knowledgeable about the incident as yourself.

However, I am sorry that you received pm's disputing what the alleged apparition said and basically trying to argue their case in private, they should have posted their opinion on the thread to encourage proper discussion, so thank you for posting it up anyway.

I have ordered the books by John Fuller and Elizabeth Fuller and am looking forward to reading them when they arrive, so thanks for suggesting the 2nd title as well as the first.

Thanks again for all of your input to the thread, it was very enlightening.

So thank you again for your contribution and I am sorry if I offended you in anyway, I was genuinely grateful for your input and I believe I have always agreed with your opinion on this strange, yet unexplainable subject. As such I will not send you anymore pm's.

I posted this thread because I found the story to be compelling, and as there was no other thread on the subject except for one or two references on other threads, that I thought ATS readers may be interested. I am looking forward to reading the books, but feel it is probably counter-productive to continue participating in the discussion, as I have no wish to offend anyone, and it would seem that the by the very nature of the topic it may cause further discourse as to what was said/meant by the alleged apparition of Don Repo and I would rather draw my own conclusions and keep them to myself.

A fascinating story, I thought you might find this interesting also :-

The most convincing cases demonstrating the survival of the human personality after the demise of the physical body.

www.aeces.info...

reply to post by Ivar_Karlsen


It's quit possible that he ment that no other plane infused with the parts from flight 401 would crash.. as these apparently were the planes they were haunting... I might be wrong about that though. Were the planes that the sightings occured the ones with salvaged parts?