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Were the founding fathers of the USA involved in getting us where we are now?

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posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 03:54 AM
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reply to post by IPILYA
 


I appreciate your efforts. I'm questioning the root source of the information.

It's suspect that after all these years suddenly up pops documentation of this nature.

Right now, I'm not buying it.




posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 07:51 AM
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HELL NO, the founding fathers warned the future US not to go down the path it is currently going down.




This was the only answer that was needed for this topic.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 07:58 AM
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OP if you read this link from page 1-4 it is a fair amount of reading but its what you asked for & it provides some good historical information on how certain branches of the freemasons were infiltrated by the illuminati, As well as good information regarding the Illuminati.

NWO / Illuminati Agenda



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 08:08 AM
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Only if the founding fathers wrote in the constitution "states shall only use gold and silver as legal tender...up until a central bank takes the country over and the Americans pay taxes to foreign off shore banks."

The fact that that is not written into the constitution just may be an indication that the founders were NOT illuminati (although Alexander Hamilton is a bit suspect since he was the federalist).



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by Skewed
I wish I could bring them back and show them the shape of the country and see what they have to say about it and if this was their vision.


Yeah, me too. I would wager they would not be too happy with things, especially our monetary system and the central banking cartel that is running this country and most others. I am also convinced that not a one f the Founders would be please with the Patriot Act. And the size of the American government, said to be with world's biggest employer would really upset them, that all wanted a small government, one who was a servant to the people they serve.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 08:43 AM
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No... early 20th century Progressives that decided to ignore the Constitution are why we are where we are.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by HolyandClean
It just doesn't make any sense to me. Why would the founding fathers design a perfectly well balanced system, one where we couldn't get enslaved, if they were involved in the illuminati?


The Illuminati were fighting for freedom in Germany at the same time our founding fathers were fighting for freedom here. Indeed, the Illuminati called themselves "illuminati" because they believed in enlightening people.


I know they were all Freemasons, but think about it, Freemasonry must have been something totally different back then. Had to be.


Freemasonry is the same.


I mean good gosh, they fought a war to gain their independence. Why would they try so hard to protect us if they were involved in the Illuminati? Was it part of a broader agenda?


The Illuminati was a European fraternity that was based on Freemasonry. Our forefathers were not members of the Illuminati, but they shared similar values. Thomas Jefferson even published a defense of the Illuminati at the time when the Illuminati was persecuted in Germany, and its members were being arrested.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by HolyandClean
It just doesn't make any sense to me. Why would the founding fathers design a perfectly well balanced system, one where we couldn't get enslaved,


That is impossible, if thats what they did then we would not be hear today. As far as I know, this goes way deeper then most people think. America was a test set up by our founding fathers to see if we could do it. If we could handle freedom. Their will all ways be some one trying to take that freedom, remember this is the test and we let the tester's take over.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by HolyandClean
reply to post by IPILYA
 


Why was Lincoln assassinated then? I heard he ticked off the Illuminati somehow.


I cant answer that but i wanted to post this
www.meilach.com...

Every one idealizes JFK, what they dont understand is that he was in on his own death. He had to have known. It was a occult mind control ritual, to show the public and politicians that their will be no abraham lincoln in office.I am sure their is more behind it then what it appears to be. Their all ways is.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by TerryMcGuire
 


I will totally read that! I was just thinking yesterday that the disagreements between the parties and the power grabbing by one branch or another has been going on a long time. I was thinking about Marbury V. Madison and the Midnight Judges situation (google if don't know and interested but outgoing President tried to stack against incoming in terms of creating and filling positions with people that agreed with him) and the whole idea that the Supreme Court invented the concept of Judicial Review. So they bascially said, "hey we are important enough that we can decide if things go with the Constitution". That's a decent sized grab! Given that this was happening all the way back then: with Adams and Jefferson....it is what it is and likely will always be. It actually made me feel better because we think of that as the good old days and yet there they were disagreeing and having major political scandals...



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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The Founding Brothers were ordinary men just like you and I.

Do you think you could draft a document that would effectively manage America 300 years from now when we may well be travelling in space?



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 03:07 PM
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George Washington...

In 1779, George Washington instructed Major General John Sullivan to attack Iroquois people. Washington stated, "lay waste all the settlements around...that the country may not be merely overrun, but destroyed". In the course of the carnage and annihilation of Indian people, Washington also instructed his general not "listen to any overture of peace before the total ruin of their settlements is effected". (Stannard, David E. AMERICAN HOLOCAUST. New York: Oxford University Press, 1992. pp. 118-121.)

In 1783, Washington's anti-Indian sentiments were apparent in his comparisons of Indians with wolves: "Both being beast of prey, tho' they differ in shape", he said. George Washington's policies of extermination were realized in his troops behaviors following a defeat. Troops would skin the bodies of Iroquois "from the hips downward to make boot tops or leggings". Indians who survived the attacks later re-named the nation's first president as "Town Destroyer". Approximately 28 of 30 Seneca towns had been destroyed within a five year period. (Ibid)

Thomas Jefferson...

In 1807, Thomas Jefferson instructed his War Department that, should any Indians resist against America stealing Indian lands, the Indian resistance must be met with "the hatchet". Jefferson continued, "And...if ever we are constrained to lift the hatchet against any tribe, " he wrote, "we will never lay it down till that tribe is exterminated, or is driven beyond the Mississippi." Jefferson, the slave owner, continued, "in war, they will kill some of us; we shall destroy all of them". (Ibid)

In 1812, Jefferson said that American was obliged to push the backward Indians "with the beasts of the forests into the Stony Mountains". One year later Jefferson continued anti-Indian statements by adding that America must "pursue [the Indians] to extermination, or drive them to new seats beyond our reach". (Ibid)

Abraham Lincoln...

In 1862, President Abraham Lincoln ordered the execution, by hanging, of 38 Dakota Sioux prisoners in Mankato, Minnesota. Most of those executed were holy men or political leaders of their camps. None of them were responsible for committing the crimes they were accused of. Coined as the Largest Mass Execution in U.S. History. (Brown, Dee. BURY MY HEART AT WOUNDED KNEE. New York: Holt, Rinehart, Winston, 1970. pp. 59-61)

Source: www.dickshovel.com...
There is a lot of information on this sourced page dealing with Mt. Rushmore and its slap in the face to The American Indian.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


You are a professional liar. I've did enough research to know Freemasonry worships Lucifer, or Satan the devil. Heck, even Albert Pike admitted it in his book "Morals and Dogma".

Freemasonry has a great influence over what happens in the world today. According to some insiders, you have to be a Freemason in order to get deeper into the church of Satan.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by HolyandClean
reply to post by JoshNorton
 


You are a professional liar. I've did enough research to know Freemasonry worships Lucifer, or Satan the devil. Heck, even Albert Pike admitted it in his book "Morals and Dogma".

Freemasonry has a great influence over what happens in the world today. According to some insiders, you have to be a Freemason in order to get deeper into the church of Satan.


I don't think I have ever laughed this hard on here on ATS before... thanks.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by HolyandClean
You are a professional liar.
Well, that would imply
  1. that I'm lying, and
  2. that I'm getting paid.
Neither is the case.

I've did enough research to know Freemasonry worships Lucifer, or Satan the devil. Heck, even Albert Pike admitted it in his book "Morals and Dogma".
And I assume you have a page number to back that up? And that you've read the entire page, so you're not just taking one sentence out of context?

I can wait.


Freemasonry has a great influence over what happens in the world today. According to some insiders, you have to be a Freemason in order to get deeper into the church of Satan.
I really don't think a theistic Satanist would enjoy lodge very much, to be honest. I've met some very friendly Satanists here on ATS though, and if they ever wanted to join my lodge, I'd more than likely be willing to sign their petition.

But Freemasonry doesn't have nearly the influence it had 50 years ago. You realize we haven't even had a Mason in the White House in 34 years?



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by HolyandClean
I've did enough research to know Freemasonry worships Lucifer, or Satan the devil.


What does your 'research' tell you about someone who thinks Satan is make-believe? I put him in the same category as the Tooth Fairy (and just as relevant).






edit on 1-7-2011 by AugustusMasonicus because: Networkdude has no beer.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by HolyandClean
I've did enough research to know Freemasonry worships Lucifer, or Satan the devil.


Wrong.


Heck, even Albert Pike admitted it in his book "Morals and Dogma".


Wrong.


According to some insiders, you have to be a Freemason in order to get deeper into the church of Satan.


Since the Church of Satan only accepts atheists, wrong again.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by IPILYA
 

So you think that every organization that is worldwide or corporation that has made it is NWO?

reply to post by IPILYA
 

Abe Lincoln was black?

reply to post by HolyandClean
 

You are ignorant and I highly doubt you've actually read "Morals & Dogma", but rather are pulling a quote from some anti-Masonic, religious fanatic site. Pike was speaking about enlightenment, not some Babylonian king from the book of Isaiah.


Freemasonry has a great influence over what happens in the world today. According to some insiders, you have to be a Freemason in order to get deeper into the church of Satan.

You mean according to Bill Schnoebelen, who is the true "professional liar".



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 09:12 AM
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Free Masonry formed out of the logical evolution of the working class to wrest concessions from the owning ruling classes of the ancient world. A workers union of sorts. It worked fairly well for quite a while which is the exact reason the ruling and owning classes infiltrated the union and wiped their arses with it which in effect also follows that same logical evolution. This is completely evident by just looking all around ourselves in every day life.



posted on Jul, 1 2011 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by IKTOMI
 

Now we're going into the realm of Operative Masonry versus Speculative Masonry. How did the "ruling class" wipes its ass with it? What exactly did they do?



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