Extent of the Sexualisation of Women

Originally posted by HolyandClean
I choose not to think about sex, cause it makes me want to commit fornication, and if I start thinking about it, i'm going to call somebody up.. I don't need no more sins on my plate.

I know my words mean nothing to people like you, and yet I'm moved by my good will to try to reason with you.

I was in your place once. I was a hardcore christian, I prayed constantly, every time I had sex I was afraid of going to hell. Then I thought about it, and eventually I realized that a god that would condemn me for partaking in a natural activity with a loving partner was no god of mine. There is nothing wrong with fornication. The only thing wrong here is the person or persons who poisoned your mind with their beliefs.

I might just seem like another person on the internet, but know that I do care about you and I know what it's like to be miserable and to try not to think about sex and to worry about my salvation constantly. Nothing good will come of the path you're going down. Please think try to think for YOURSELF for once, and not be influenced by the words of someone else. Only YOU can find your true path and realize the truth. No one else, and no religion or god, can do this for you.

Originally posted by CRDDD

Originally posted by HolyandClean
I choose not to think about sex, cause it makes me want to commit fornication, and if I start thinking about it, i'm going to call somebody up.. I don't need no more sins on my plate.

I know my words mean nothing to people like you, and yet I'm moved by my good will to try to reason with you.

I was in your place once. I was a hardcore christian, I prayed constantly, every time I had sex I was afraid of going to hell. Then I thought about it, and eventually I realized that a god that would condemn me for partaking in a natural activity with a loving partner was no god of mine. There is nothing wrong with fornication. The only thing wrong here is the person or persons who poisoned your mind with their beliefs.

I might just seem like another person on the internet, but know that I do care about you and I know what it's like to be miserable and to try not to think about sex and to worry about my salvation constantly. Nothing good will come of the path you're going down. Please think try to think for YOURSELF for once, and not be influenced by the words of someone else. Only YOU can find your true path and realize the truth. No one else, and no religion or god, can do this for you.

Amen!

A great deal of the members here have demonstrated that they simply have no understanding of what this thread is about. This is getting tiring.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe what the OP is speaking of is the apparent phenomenon of conditioning females to become disgusting whores, while conditioning males to become soulless, pig bastards.

Do you get it now? Yes? Okay, let's take it from there......

reply to post by AngryOne


You NAILED it on the head, AngryOne!

A very good study for the OP and others, can be read here: Sexual violence in the media: Indirect effects on women

The above study was done over 25 years ago, and though still relevant, the situation is probably much more dire, due to the Internet, and pop/hip hop music videos (slutty/whore portrayal) culture.

Originally posted by HarmonicNights
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Here's an article on the gender aspect of the Kibbutz experiment:

www.heretical.com...

Oh, I don't believe in gender equality in these regards.
It is biologically untrue...its nonsense. Men will be men, women will be women..and all the fake conditioning of society simply won't alter tnat overall.
Some aspects can be altered...superficial things such as wearing pants, haircuts, etc

Now, about that article, what is going on here, in my opinion, isn't a sudden modesty of gender, its a discomfort with a changing body. before puberty, no issues...after puberty, again, no issues so long as its not a rapefest sort of thing...but during puberty is when people want to crawl out of their own skin, much less have others view them.

The overall point was made that, beyond a pubescent discomfort, it ultimately "equaled" each other to a degree

What doesn't suprise me is all of their lessons were undone later on in life...men and women are different...they think different, they percieve differently, etc...to say they are equal on that level is just nonsense...a woman will be a woman, and a man will be a man if given a chance...

As far as modesty being a feminine trait, well, it is to a degree as females seek out the strongest breeder and protector by nature...what does change is the definition of strength, that is individual perception...however, women do also attract men...they don't sit in a shadow and simply choose one...they sing, they shake their feathers, etc...aka, they show off their sexuality..men show off their strength...there are superfical desires for initial breeding, and deeper attributes to sway the male into sticking around for protection..both are represented in humans with exterior beauty flaunting followed by internal intellectual or emotional communication.

its a interesting study overall though...in modern society, we are just as primitive as are cave dwelling ancestors...we just have learned how to do our mating ritual more subtly...no more naked dancing by the fire followed by breeding right in the open, etc...now its hinted at...in comparison with our more primitive ancestors, we are all but puritans and prudes.

Originally posted by AngryOne
A great deal of the members here have demonstrated that they simply have no understanding of what this thread is about. This is getting tiring.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe what the OP is speaking of is the apparent phenomenon of conditioning females to become disgusting whores, while conditioning males to become soulless, pig bastards.

Do you get it now? Yes? Okay, let's take it from there......

Or arguably, how the media is connecting with the secret desires of women to be with soulless pig bastards, and men's secret desire to be with disgusting whores anyhow.

(incidently, what pic is that from? (avatar)...your last pic (The Orphan) was a pretty cool movie...you seem to have decent taste in creepy chicks flicks and looking for something to watch.)

reply to post by SaturnFX


One would think the boys began expressing their 'excitement' from female nudity and THAT is what prompted the girls to eventually demand privacy. They didn't wish to incite lust in just any male. Sure, the males would lust after them anyway but to have to be naked in front of all of them was just uncomfortable, I'm sure.

There's a far cry from making an attempt to be attractive and sexy to the degrading, pornographic things women do today in the media. They don't even do it to attract men, they mainly do it for money.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Or arguably, how the media is connecting with the secret desires of women to be with soulless pig bastards, and men's secret desire to be with disgusting whores anyhow

I can't speak for men, but where do you get the idea that women in general desire to be with 'soulless pig bastards'? Now there are women who will settle for anything due to desperation for male attention but as a general rule, the ideal male for women is NOT a 'soulless pig bastard'.

Originally posted by HarmonicNights
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

One would think the boys began expressing their 'excitement' from female nudity and THAT is what prompted the girls to eventually demand privacy. They didn't wish to incite lust in just any male. Sure, the males would lust after them anyway but to have to be naked in front of all of them was just uncomfortable, I'm sure.

There's a far cry from making an attempt to be attractive and sexy to the degrading, pornographic things women do today in the media. They don't even do it to attract men, they mainly do it for money.

edit on 6/17/2011 by HarmonicNights because: (no reason given)

Agreed with the first part to an extent...nature kicking in, women are choosy.

As far as the second paragraph though, I disagree. women have been porning out since we were a tribal species for the intent of security and provisions (primitive version of money). in a society where women are products and men own all things, shaking your booty to attract the man with the best fishing boat or hunting spear is equal to todays shaking for the security...

I think the difference is, men no longer own everything, so it allows women to seek out what they are actually after verses try to bribe a man into providing it for them. As far as cultural considerations go, this is new and feels "wrong" to us men...and perhaps on some level it is a bit unnatural (if we are no longer the end all/be all of a womans security and worth, then we feel a bit useless beyond seed donar)..but, from a intellectual standpoint, it just means we have to redefine who we are as a gender and what our purpose is for.

After all, we have a better sense of humor than chicks

(gah, did I just reduce our entire sex down to us being the clowns of the planet?)

But back on point...women have been flaunting their bits at us with the subtle promise of sex for everyone as the norm...Be it around some campfire at a village ceremony, or a bellydancer in the middle east preforming for the many onlookers to their shaking and shedding of silks, etc...its the norm.

Originally posted by HarmonicNights

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Or arguably, how the media is connecting with the secret desires of women to be with soulless pig bastards, and men's secret desire to be with disgusting whores anyhow

I can't speak for men, but where do you get the idea that women in general desire to be with 'soulless pig bastards'? Now there are women who will settle for anything due to desperation for male attention but as a general rule, the ideal male for women is NOT a 'soulless pig bastard'.

Says who?
You know...there is a lot of talk about being a respectful and nice guy in society. sure...and good luck in your endless lonely nights as everyones "friend"..such a nice guy.

Women desire confidence, a bit of mystery, conviction, etc...they want to feel claimed by a man and owned.
not all women, just women in general as their biological drive.
Do women ultimately want the nice guy...yes, but not overt nice guys...they want someone whom is, by action and class, nice...but by their exterior, a bit of a warrior...either physically or intellectually. Confidence and conviction I say again.

Now, the extreme of that is your typical thug life nonsense, or egotistical pigs...in the same way men in general want a sexually attractive and alluring female that arouses them...the extreme of that is of course the "disgusting whore"...its only when extremes happen do such words come into play.

But then again, one person's view of extreme may be another persons perfect fit...that jersey shore idiot may seem like a classless pig to you, but to the person next to you...perfect fit. alternatively, you may find the james bond type sharp and confidence man to be your ideal, but the person next to you may see a classless womanizing emotionally unavailable pig...etc...perception..however, the general traits stand true. Confidence in strength (some sort of strength) is what women desire (for breeding considerations)

reply to post by TechUnique

I have to admit I was disgusted at myself when watching a film earlier. A woman was crawling along the floor, tense scene, guy with a chainsaw about to kill her and everything. I noticed that I couldn't stop looking at her behind and even found myself fantasising about having sex with this person I'm never going to meet.

Congratulations your normal.

But that's not all I noticed. I also noticed that I along with most males think like this all the time. ALL THE TIME. Now If you are male and you reply saying this makes me a disgusting person then look in the mirror because this is what the majority of males are like.

Speak for yourself I personally don't think about sex all the time only about 65% of the time. And I'f I wanted to I could probably even go to 10% of the time or even lower, or none at all, though that would not be healthy or sane in this sexually oriented world.

Why is the world like this?

Biology, evolution, propagation of species, genetic differences propagation, people like sex, etc etc etc, why even ask why? Its pretty obvious why he world is like this.

This is all due to the thorough objectification of women through the media and even partly due to the principles of archaic religion. It has been programmed into our heads. Women are objects. Women are good for nothing except sex.

First it's nature, second its all programming in one form or another throughout the ages. In fact this current age in really not the most sexualised or objective sexualisation of women that it has been. Compared to some in the past such as ashur/assyria or Babylon or any number of ancient civilizations what you experience now is really pretty tame.

But yes there is always programming going on, and as you can see its everywhere. And yes there are agendas at work, for any number of reasons and goals that use the primal natures of humans to achieve those agendas, male and female sexuality being one of those primal natures.

When you see a woman on T.V is she 'Physically unattractive' ? Usually not. But guys? They can be the ugliest people going and still represent a corporation or media outlet on T.V.

Sex sells and males are usually the ones that buy, its biology. Though females are more sexual then males, they are also more materialistic, so its not as simple with them as it is with males. That's why at least male oriented sexual things will not usually sell to females unless there is materialistic or social gains, hence the guys on the pictotube usually represent a corporation, or media outlet, and such, basically monetary influences.

Basically only males are stupid enough to give everything they have for a little poon tang. And like I said those with agendas know and use this fact and other facts to achieve there agendas by way of programming using things such as the media. I mean it's not only salesmen that know this, not by a longshot.

It's kind of been used since the begining of civilisation even in the earlier civilizations such as ashur and babylon they knew this little fact. Just look at history bro most things never change that much, even back then they knew the basic natures of males and females and used it for gains, such as military supremacy in the land.

As in you control the females then the males will come, read the epic of Gilgamesh even in that, the first part of the tale is that they send a whore to seduce and bring the so called wild man Enkidu to the city of Gilgamesh named Uruk. The part in the tale of Gilgamesh with Enkidu and Shamhat, is a representation of that.

On the grander scope it really it was quite simple and it went like this, build shiny cool powerful city= females come from across the land, because females are attracted to power and shiny things and cool cities, to put it in mild layman terms. And were females go males follow, because nature dictates it so, after all males think with there other head.

And really the first cities got started like that, some of them were nothing in reality but the first pimps and ho's, type of places, like that whole whore of babylon thing or the camp followers and the whore goddess of ashur that they worshiped, "forgot her name" or what they used to call her. But whatever it was another age so it don't matter now.

Really it was a very primal place back then, I mean just think about it. Even today with the whole religions like Judaism or Christianity or Islam's influence/programming on people to get them to quit doing all that hanky panky and all kinds of freaky stuff, that they did. Even with all those thousands of years of programming it still barely change the basic instincts of men and women.

And yes to answer your question, its still going on today, with this oversexualization of females that there trying to push. It to has a purpose, same as it had back in the time of Gilgamesh and ashur. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Now do you wonder why you got turned on by a female in a horror flick? It's simple to put it in two words....sex sells.

Women have to deal with periods and childbirth bro. That stuff is not for me.

I should think so... bro, after all your not female...Or are you?

reply to post by SaturnFX


There have always been women willing to do pornographic and degrading things, but it is now a mainstream thing to do in the media and is no longer stigmatized by as many people. Whoring yourself out does not guarantee protection and security. Most men will have sex with these women, but never marry them. "Shaking your bits" at men is merely a sexual invitation. The more and more fatherless homes there are, the more women with low self-worth there will be.

A book that deals with this subject is "Sexual Suicide" by George Gilder. It was written back in the 70's and predicted how a post sexual "revolution" society would turn out.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Says who?
You know...there is a lot of talk about being a respectful and nice guy in society. sure...and good luck in your endless lonely nights as everyones "friend"..such a nice guy.

A man who doesn't act like a psychopath is not automatically a feminized pansy.

Women desire confidence, a bit of mystery, conviction, etc...they want to feel claimed by a man and owned.

But you've been speaking of women making sexual invitations to men by behaving in 'pornographic' ways. Sexual invitations are not a marriage proposal or any type of attempt at creating a stable relationship.

Do women ultimately want the nice guy...yes, but not overt nice guys...they want someone whom is, by action and class, nice...but by their exterior, a bit of a warrior...either physically or intellectually. Confidence and conviction I say again.

I'm not seeing how that equals a soulless pig bastard.

Being a 'thug' or 'whore' are not signs of confidence. They are usually emotional and mental weaknesses playing out as a result of a dark past.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Or arguably, how the media is connecting with the secret desires of women to be with soulless pig bastards, and men's secret desire to be with disgusting whores anyhow.

(incidently, what pic is that from? (avatar)...your last pic (The Orphan) was a pretty cool movie...you seem to have decent taste in creepy chicks flicks and looking for something to watch.)

So the ideal man is a pig, while the ideal woman is a whore? Is this REALLY what people consider desirable? I mean, REALLY? Hmmmm.........well personally, I consider the aforementioned to be repugnant. But that's just me.

Anyway, my current avatar is from the Silent Hill movie.

Originally posted by AngryOne
So the ideal man is a pig, while the ideal woman is a whore? Is this REALLY what people consider desirable? I mean, REALLY? Hmmmm.........well personally, I consider the aforementioned to be repugnant. But that's just me.

I think the point I was trying to make is...

ok, so back in the day, a ankle showing, or a show of stocking in general was considered very wild and "whorish"
Alternatively a man whom even spent more than 2 seconds eyeing that woman was consided a pig.

Were they whores and pigs? no..lets get real...it was just some loudmouth prudes judging them because, by their standards, they were..not because they actually were.

As time goes on, the stocking became the leg, then the naval, etc etc...eventually people will realize that the human body is not a dirty thing, but until then, there will be those that judge anything beyond what they find acceptable to be whorish or pigish, and anything equal or less to be perfectly fine and tame...but its a sliding scale.
what you personally may find conservative and acceptable, no doubt, someone is judging you as whorish or pigish...and who is right? well, to them personally, they are, but ultimately nobody...its personal taste and judgement of morals will ultimately (and rightly) fail.

Originally posted by TechUnique
reply to post by neo96

 

Nah I understand your point mate I was just making another. Thoughts get put into peoples heads through the media and some of those thoughts can manifest into actions.

Like I said I agree with you both.

That's utter nonsense. Japan has some of the most perverse forms of entertainment in the world and they are not sporting higher numbers in crime.

Originally posted by boncho

That's utter nonsense. Japan has some of the most perverse forms of entertainment in the world and they are not sporting higher numbers in crime.

Indeed

however...Japan is a bit...interesting.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e6ec2fcc6158.jpg[/atsimg]

Clearly violence doesn't increase due to sexual liberation, however...something appears to become affected.

Whereas I find Japanese freedom and lack of repression very appealing.


Penicillin--花园キネマ[Hanazono Kinema](PV)


D - Ouka Saki Some ni Keri PV


D / 7th Rose [PV] HQ


Asagi (D) - Corvinus Asagi has one of the best male voices I've ever heard.

In one way this is appealing, but its also a corporate ownership and exploitation, a lack of Freedom to be yourself.

However, its also written into contracts, so its exploitation as well.

Surrprisingly this isn't Gay, though Japan has Gay, Bi, the whole spectrum.

This is due to a lack of taboo in certain explorations, things we think are wrong were considered normal play growing up historically.

But its also a reaction via the women, to the chauvinism, and lack of help in their homes.

It began to be reflected in music, from their booming Manga industry and the Gay toons, which are very romantic stories actually, were initially mainly illustrated and written by women.

So Japan, like Hollywood has its own exploitation and sexualitzation of its artists.

I really don't buy into the whole idea that humans are as neat and box fit as scientific theory would like to think which includes our understanding of nature. I think our science is not necessarily free from bias. And no I don't outright reject our Science, ofcourse.
Ask indengenous peoples around the world and you will see a profound difference between our understanding and theirs of themselves and of nature as a whole.
We know little of our past, we know not what swims in the deep nor what lay beyond our solar system yet we say such and such as if we do...and above all, do we really have the self Gnosis we think we do?
So I don't think how we portray men and women in media is so simple as just a bunch of biological processess...I think a multiplicity of things are at play here into the reasons for it...some more deep and some more shallow and some more in between. *shrugs*

reply to post by CRDDD


1. No you have not, I am not a Christian.

2. There is nothing wrong with having sex with someone you love. It's just having sex with someone just to have sex with them, and be done with it that's the sin. Or having sex with someone else while you are married. If you are having sex with a girlfriend, or wife, you are fine. Cause once you have sex with someone, they become your spouse in the eyes of God. At least that's what the scriptures say. And once you marry someone, you have to stay with them until death, unless they commit adultery with someone else, then you can divorce.