California`s June Oddity

Originally posted by AnotherYOU
reply to post by incrediblelousminds

 

science and predictions in the same argument are sort of asinine

the only way science can "predict" anything is by coorelation with past events and observation of the same phenomenons that trigger it.

yet you claim these changes are new and caused by us.

so wich one is it?

There is no dichotomy. I stated that climate change models have predicted larger amounts of precipitation for years now. And now we are seeing that very same thing. Now, this does not mean it is solely or definitively climate change at work. But if one makes themselves familiar with the actual science, and not the punditry you are emulating, one would note this is very much in line with those predictions.

You arent arguing the science. You are denying the existence of it.

Is the extreme la nina pattern the pacific northwest is experiencing completely unprecedented? Of course not. But it is out of the ordinary. It's noteworthy. And it's noteworthy that some of the attributes of this unusual weather pattern are indeed in line with what climate change models have predicted for some time now. A increase in extreme weather patterns. Temperature extremes. Heavey rainfall from an increased amount of moisture in the atmosphere. This is all fact. And while no one can say for sure if it is indeed just climate change at work (and, indeed, no one is) to use this thread as an excuse to blindly dismiss actual science with nothing more than pundit catch phrases is absurd. You clearly haven't the slightest understanding of what you are even arguing against, because you can't even argue the science on it's own merits.

Again, you're denying the existence of gravity by claiming Newton was a communist.

I still want to know who is in charge of this massive, worldwide 'scam' - how each of these hundreds of thousands of meteorologists, geologists, particle physics phd's, climateologists, and atmospheric scientists worldwide will make millions, each, in cash by 'sedans that get 40 mpg' and 'carbon taxes' by studying and producing papers on man-made climate change.

Come on - There are hundreds of thousands of doctoral level scientists from hundreds of accredited institutions worldwide who say man made climate change is a fact.

So how will this 'scam' enrich them exactly? Who is coordinating the scam and enforcing compliance? Come on- I have been hearing that Climate change is a scam for 3 years now without one solid reason for these hundreds of thousands of scientists to promote such a thing.

On the other hand I do have proof that Exxon Mobile, the American Petroleum Institute and other carbon fuels industries have been spending millions of their billions in profits these past 10 years on a campaign of climate change denial.

Union of Concerned Scientists Exposes ExxonMobil Funded Organizations & Spokespeople:

The Union of Concerned Scientists, in their expose titled: Smoke, Mirrors & Hot Air - How ExxonMobil Uses Big Tobacco's Tactics to Manufacture Uncertainty on Climate Science (2007) show how ExxonMobil waged the most successful and sophisticated global warming denial campaign since that of Big Tobacco's campaign against the dangers of smoking. In their 64 page document, they show that ExxonMobil:

Manufactured uncertainty about climate change by raising doubts about even the most certain science.

Used a tactic known as information laundering by using seemingly independent front groups that pretended to be doing science but were instead just waging public relations for the company. Virtually all of these front groups publicize the work of the same people and these people typically serve as board members or scientific advisors for each of these groups. This tactic creates the illusion that there are many organizations and many people with doubts about global warming.

Funneled about $16 million to these front groups to manufacture this uncertainty.

Paid guilt-less scientists to cherry-pick data and misrepresent peer-reviewed scientific evidence whereby these scientists then used this misinformation to persuade the general public and the media that there was still no scientific consensus.

Shifted the focus away from global warming action by questioning if the data was "sound science".

Used its extraordinary access to the Bush Administration to block regulation and to shape governmental communications about global warming.
Full information and Dollar amounts here: www2.sunysuffolk.edu...

Originally posted by AnotherYOU
reply to post by kro32

 

actually we are overdue for another ice age, not coming out of one.

Wrong. We're not due for another ice age for thousands of years to come.

and a global increase in temperatures is an indicator of an ice age, the poles melt, thus slowing down the oceanic currents, thus cooling the planet.

neat domino effect

A global increase in temps is an indicator of a global increase in temps, not an indicator of an ice age. An ice age would begin with an overal drop in temperatures. If you're referring to the thermohaline circulation shutdown, that's still speculative and we are currently seeing accelerating global WARMING.

and it makes me sad that proof to you is reading "peer reviewed" cliche data, but never questioning who funds and who capitalizes on those same studies.

in a court of law that would be considered "hearsay"

What are you even talking about? Your argument applies MUCH BETTER to yourself and other deniers. Though... you deniers do tend to fail on having decent peer-reviewed data/studies to back up your claims. You've been debunked time and time again, your "sources" and "scientists" have also shown to have DIRECT FINANCIAL TIES TO THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY and right-wing politicians. How much dirtier can you get? You really can't get dirtier or more suspect. The global body of climatologists/climatology are actually quite unhindered by corruption or conflicts of interest. Their interest is pure study unfettered by politics. Deniers and right-wingers have turned a scientific discussion into a political debate which only enriches oil companies who have zero interest in saving the planet or switching to renewables.

prove me you believe global temperatures have been rising by maybe stepping outside of the house everyday, for a change. not by saying you read it somewhere.

accept external views always yes, but think for yourself please.

Local weather patterns are NOT enough to detect GLOBAL CLIMATE changes, especially to a layman. Telling someone to ignore vast scientific data/knowledge based on decades of research and climate observation and replace it with walking outside and making a decision on global trends based on local weather is both incredibly stupid and intellectually insane.

if those data studies tell you to jump off a brigde, you probably won't question it, will you?

since it's been peer reviewed.

Bad argument, doesn't apply. Facts are facts, and scientists are quite the OPPOSITE of telling people to jump off bridges. In FACT, what they're saying is, "PEOPLE, STOP JUMPING OFF ECOLOGICAL BRIDGES, DONT YOU SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING??". And yes... people DO see what's happening, even WHEN they step outside and see erratic/extreme weather patterns and new weather records being set. 2010 was the hottest meteorological year on record, 2011 is still in the top 10 hottest years on record EVEN WITH the current La Nina effect (which is recurring like El Nino, but has a cooling effect unlike El Nino's warming).

Had some real crazy weather here in Pennsylvania yesterday. First off the storm came from the north and this usually doesnt happen. Early in the day it showed on radar than it should have been pouring but there was very little rain. Then around 8 ,if I remember correct, it started to rain a lil but we had terrible thunder and lightning and usually this only happens when its real hot or real cold with the other making its way towards us. Plus the farmers were a month late on planting the corn this year because we had so much rain the feilds were 2 wet. It has been 1 crazy year 4 weather!!!! I got a question about harp....could this be causing some of this weather??
I was also wondering if they are playing with the weather....why??? Maybe 2 radiate us since the rain will collect the radiation from japan and drop it all across america??? Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated...ty ATS members and have a great day!!

Originally posted by potential_problem

Originally posted by kro32
No the temperature is definetly going up world wide even if some specific locations get colder the overall temperature is rising. That's just a matter of taking temps around the world and you won't find a scientist who will debate that. It's just a fact.

Please, give me scientific data for temperatures from last 40000 years then.
You may provide stones with cline writings, even.
Only fact is, that Earth is dynamic, living being, and say thanks to Ford for bleeding it out.
Funny ecologists GO HOME.

edit on 5-6-2011 by potential_problem because: (no reason given)

Here ya go:
www.climatedata.info...

reply to post by reesie45


I'm in Carlsbad down near San Diego. It's been cooler and windier than normal, water temps are in the mid 50's....should be around 62 or so. Odd but not unheard of.....weather is cyclical and people's perceptions are just that - perceptions. We simply don't know if this is a 5 year, 50 year, 500 year, 5000 year, whatever part of the cycle. Nothing to be alarmed about.

Originally posted by SunnyDee

Originally posted by kro32

Originally posted by reesie45
reply to post by kro32

 

Yeah but now they are saying its climate change is there a difference between global warming and climate change? I heard that in some places its getting colder so instead of the earth warming its getting colder. everything is so distorted anymore.

No the temperature is definetly going up world wide even if some specific locations get colder the overall temperature is rising. That's just a matter of taking temps around the world and you won't find a scientist who will debate that. It's just a fact.

The causes and future effects are debateable however and this is how the climate change plays in. Scientists don't really know what effect that drastically rising temps will have on weather so now it looks like this may be what is playing out.

Temps in the past have risen and fallen but if you do a bit of research you'll see charts showing that we are currently heating up faster, alot faster actually, than at any time in recorded history. Geologic recorded history mind you.

We were in normal cycles until the 1920's and since than the temp has gone pretty much straight up...way out of the ordinary so it's logical to expect that kind of increased warming to have some affect on weather patterns.

I think you need to give us documentation on the statement above. The temp is not going up here in California. Not by my internal temperature gage, my backyard thermometer, my lagging garden or my closet of summer clothes gathering dust.

I llive is So. Cal. This is the second year, that I have noticed a year-round over-all cold pattern. And it's obvious to everyone here. Last year about this time, June, A friend and I worried that our combined summer vaction would be cold in July. It ended up warming up for that July trip, but it was not burning hot like in the past.

SO yeah, I think we might be heading into a global cooling period. And I don't like it.

Nope... 2010 was the hottest year on record (tied with 2005):
www.noaanews.noaa.gov...

Also, this year we're seeing a La Nina effect, which promotes cooling. It's still one of the warmest years on record.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by reesie45

 

It's called La Nina .. cooling of ocean water.. follows El Nino which is the warming of ocean waters.. this follows a cycle, has for millions of years.

Global Warming was a false attempt by Progressive to get us to pay more for "Green" items, and pay hefty taxes for "Sustainability"

Climate Change is the false idea by Progressives to replace Global Warming after it was proven to be a sham .. the end goal is still the same, taxation and corporate profits.

Neither exist.

^Utter ignorance and lies^

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by incrediblelousminds

 

You completely miss the point.. and because you miss the obvious point everything you say is dead wrong.

Climate Change, Global Warming, Etc etc etc..

These are used to bring about taxes, carbon taxes, emission regulation, $50k sedans that get an average 10 more mpg.

Everything about the "science" of "climate change" always comes back to money.. whether it's taxes or government subsidies for lightbulbs.. it doesn't matter.. it's always, always, always about the money.

The science it's self is so pathetic it cannot be called science..

Oh yes... let's focus on the little mouse in the corner instead of the GIANT ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM. The giant elephant is (quite fittingly) right-wing think-tanks and their fossil fuel backers. The mouse includes whatever silly/inconsequential examples you laid out... and there's hardly a concerted financial effort in comparison to the RICHEST COMPANIES ON THE PLANET like Exxon, Western Fuels, Chevron, etc.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by incrediblelousminds

 

Climates change all the time.. there were periods of extreme climate change.. there was a time when wine was grown in England..

WTF does that have to do with anything? Nothing.. nothing at all .. the climate changes, we adapt, but Progressives would fix it with taxes and regulation..

There is NO, not a single itty bitty tiny shred of scientific evidence to suggest HUMANS cause Climate Change.

Anyone who buys into it is a sheep.. nothing more..

Please watch:

I want to say I've experienced it that way in the past, in southern california. But living in san francisco now it's kind of impossible to gauge what "normal weather" really means...

I spend a lot of time in the Sierras. Hiked the John Muir Trail last September and just got back from climbing up Telescope Peak in Death Valley where the Sierras were in plain view as a huge weather system moved in. Totally unusual weather for this time of year. All the high passes are still snowed in, Mammoth Mtn. is still open for skiing, with good spring-like conditions. I've never seen these conditions so late in the year, in fact I just looked back at some photos from last year - on July 9 of 2010 Forrester Pass, the highest pass on the John Muir Trail at 13,000+ feet, still had a little snow but was easy to get over, when I was there in September it was completely snow free, so it probably became snow free around late July/early August. This year I won't be surprised if it has snow all summer. Temperatures out here have not been as warm as usual, plus a record snowpack, late season storms which are adding more snow are all adding up to a very short summer season in the sierras this year...

reply to post by NoHierarchy


sorry im just replying to inform you i dont sit around debating or going back and forth with replies with people who dissect, pick apart and chop replies so they can take it out of context, make point by point replies, points being what you obviously pick and choose. but failing to make one clear concise argument, thats how i post here, thats how i expect to be replied to here. dont dissect me, i wont dissect you.

i also do not debate with people who virtually stroll around handing out ignorance certificates, because uh, thats such an ignorant thing to do.

also you clearly have alot more personal interest and time to sit around and basically deny, attack and bash anyone you don't agree with in this thread.
that you are invested in this particular topic, thus far was the only thing you have proven.

have a nice day

my views and points on this matter were already posted here, its my opinion and i stand by it.
as such i will no longer add imput to this thread

ill watch it go down, like precipitation

Originally posted by Sek82
Hey ressie54, and all, well I live in the Bay in CA also but I can't really comment on whether or not this low pressure system is normal or common, but this one does seem fairly unique. I think temps are a bit lower on average in California so far this year but have not compared any actual data yet so for now it just seems a bit out of the ordinary. Oh, here's an updated animated image of the low pressure system happening now off the California coast.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dae3b8782c12.gif[/atsimg]

I been watching California weather images quite a while and I can't remember seeing anything just sit off the coast and spin like that in June. Yes, we get our share of cut-off lows earlier in the year, but that sucker is just sitting there rock solid and spinning weather into California.

As a born and raised Californian, I have to say "Freaky man!"

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

Originally posted by AnotherYOU
reply to post by kro32

 

actually we are overdue for another ice age, not coming out of one.

Wrong. We're not due for another ice age for thousands of years to come.

Actually, we are still in an the 'ice age' ... nice try though.. y'all need to read a book before arguing and trying to sound smart

Climate change.

Nothing you can do about it. It's the natural process of the Earth. If we have an impact at all (which we don't), it would be dwarfed by the Earth's natural process of changing.

It's happened before, and it's happening again, or rather, it's always happening. The Earth is always in a state of change.

Sit back, enjoy the fireworks.

Just started raining in Baldwin Park.

Totally off the wall. I don't get it. Pouring, too. Not sprinkling.

Its heavy rain... what is so unusual about that?

We've also been experiencing unusually heavy rain and cold temperatures in toronto. But what seems unusual to a person isn't necessarily unusual in terms of climate records. Its more plausible to me that this is cyclical, and a result of climate change, rather then the beginning of the long awaited global warming natural disaster climax that is touted as being out to get us.

If strange conditions persist for a hundred years and reek unique and unprecedented havoc I'll believe in man made global warming. But, I'm confident it wont come to that, and [confident] that our affect on our climate is mostly negligible and insignificant to the greater global warming and cooling trend.

I say mostly, because I still think that radiation, fresh water pollution, and toxic gasses are problems best avoided. They themselves justify the push towards green energy. but, they dont affect the fundamental forces of nature.

reply to post by Forevever

have we not taken steps since 1979 to prevent it? could it possibly be, even in the slightest, that we reversed some of the major issues like melting polar icecaps and we're just seeing the minor (though severe in some places) leftovers of climate change?

If you believe that man-made GHGs are to blame, then NO! Every measurement shows that levels of CO2, methane, NO2 and other GHGs have gone up since 1979, not down.

What "steps" do you know of that could have prevented these AGW predictions?

Might as well throw in Hansen's repeated claims (since 1988) that NYC would be under water by now.

jw

reply to post by Stratus9

So you tell me- WHO has an agenda?

How about the NGOs, University programs and "independent" groups that want a share of the $100,000,000,000 that AGW advocates and the UN say will be transferred from developed economies ANNUALLY for the next 20 years to combat imaginary disasters those same groups attribute to anthropogenic global warming?

And yes, the WHO has an agenda, as does the IMF and IPCC.

jw