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Ancient Aliens Debunked?

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posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:36 AM
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Islam has a similar take on Adam and Eve

In Islam the Devil is referred to as Iblis (Arabic: Shaitan, a word referring to evil devil-like beings). According to the Qur'an, God created Iblis out of "smokeless fire" (along with all of the other jinn) and created man out of clay. The primary characteristic of the Devil, besides hubris, is that he has no power other than the power to cast evil suggestions into the heart of men and women.
According to Muslim theology, Iblis was expelled from the grace of God when he disobeyed God by choosing not to pay homage to Adam, the father of all mankind. He claimed to be superior to Adam, on the grounds that man was created of earth unlike himself. As for the angels, they prostrated before Adam to show their homage and obedience to God. However, Iblis, adamant in his view that man is inferior, and unlike angels was given the ability to choose, made a choice of not obeying God. This caused him to be expelled by God, a fact that Iblis blamed on humanity. Initially, the Devil was successful in deceiving Adam, but once his intentions became clear, Adam and Eve repented to God and were freed from their misdeeds and forgiven. God gave them a strong warning about Iblis and the fires of Hell and asked them and their children (humankind) to stay away from the deceptions of their senses caused by the Devil.
According to the verses of the Qur’an, the Devil's mission until the Qiyamah or Resurrection Day (yaum-ul-qiyama) is to deceive Adam's children (mankind). After that, he will be put into the fires of Hell along with those whom he has deceived. The Devil is also referred to as one of the jinns, as they are all created from the smokeless fire. The Qur'an does not depict Iblis as the enemy of God, as God is supreme over all his creations and Iblis is just one of his creations. Iblis's single enemy is humanity. He intends to discourage humans from obeying God. Thus, humankind is warned to struggle (jihad) against the mischiefs of the Satan and temptations he puts them in. The ones who succeed in this are rewarded with Paradise (jannath ul firdaus), attainable only by righteous conduct.
Bahá'í Faith




posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:50 AM
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Originally posted by Required01

So all the WRITTINGS and DRAWINGS of man/beings coming from the sky, "GODS" from the sky, model aircraft 1.000's of years old, carvings in egyptian times of choppers, planes and subs is not "evidence" of what may have been alien visitation?

correct. no evidence. just speculation.


By your statement, the Big Bang is also a speculation, how stupid does it sound that NOTHING exploded into SOMETHING and created everything we see now in billions of years? LOL the AAT sounds way more plauseble that the Big Bang sorry.


wrong. you cant compare this scientific theory with the attempts of AAT.


Religion is another cup of tea? Where did you get this from? The church? It's a very very old BOOK translated over a dozen times. By people who guessed and interpeted the most of a language partially or not known. Not even to mention about the intended manipulation of the translations in order to control the population. Religion as we know it is out-dated. Even the Pope says ALIENS are a possibility.


I´m not interested in religous theory.how do you come to that..



Definition of Theory:
....
6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

assumption, right. Not scientific.

Däniken is fraudulent and wrote his books for commercial porposes.
Sitchin is proven wrong, debunked ( in your words)

cheers



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:53 AM
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What happened with Sitchin?



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 07:17 AM
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Originally posted by anti72
correct. no evidence. just speculation.


Wrong, that is 'documented' by people from the past as to what they saw, or you can call it a "eye whitness account" if you like. With your way of thinking the bible is one big speculation as well. You may call it speculation, but you know very well that it's more then that. People drawing disk shaped UFO's in the sky 6,000 BC?






wrong. you cant compare this scientific theory with the attempts of AAT.


A theory is a theory, no matter if it is about a flying car or the existance of mankind. Nothing is proven, everything is speculation, guesses and idea's of people. You cannot prove the big bang theory is valid, hence it's still a theory.


I´m not interested in religous theory.how do you come to that..


Maybe reread your own post? That was a direct quote from it "Religion is another cup of tea"



assumption, right. Not scientific.



3. is the definittion that goes with AAT, since aliens and the possibility that it they have visited in the past, is widely accepted. And that there is so many anchient writings, drawings, etc that points towards it.
Scientific, is something that can be TESTED over and over, writings, drawings, and artifacts from the past, like the golden airplane (witch was replicated and proven to fly!) can be tested and shown what it can.

So you dismissing this as a wild guess, is not valid. Exactly the same can be done with religion and the Big Bang theory. All people 'thinking' they know something only to prove later on it might very well be different. This happened already in the past, and will happen in the future. What HARD evidence do you have of the Big Bang? Yes exactly nothing, thank you.



Däniken is fraudulent and wrote his books for commercial porposes.
Sitchin is proven wrong, debunked ( in your words)


My words? Am i the OP? No i am not, nor did i use the word "debunked" in a reply adressed to you. So don't try to put words in my mouth.

But since you are so against the ATT and it's nothing but non-sense, tell me this. How where the pyramids build? Or what where UFO's doing on the Jesus painting?



Or a UFO in the Mother Marie painting?




posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by Required01
 

there have always been mysterious things happening through the ages that does not mean ´alien´ proof.


Use ATS search function, there are hundreds of pages of this stuff, debunked all over, many, many times and years ago...I´ve read many of these and there is still no proof. just opinions.
like Däniken, he is just asking..
..he knows why.

besides, you still would have to prove it is in fact ALIEN and not just an artists vision.
impossible.

even today it is easier to think that UFOs and Aliens are something different than extraterrestial and have to do with TPTB, ergo NWO, military-industrial complex..etc..





edit on 16-8-2011 by anti72 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by anti72
reply to post by Required01
 

there have always been mysterious things happening through the ages that does not mean ´alien´ proof.


Use ATS search function, there are hundreds of pages of this stuff, debunked all over, many, many times and years ago...I´ve read many of these and there is still no proof. just opinions.
like Däniken, he is just asking..
..he knows why.

besides, you still would have to prove it is in fact ALIEN and not just an artists vision.
impossible.

even today it is easier to think that UFOs and Aliens are something different than extraterrestial and have to do with TPTB, ergo NWO, military-industrial complex..etc..





edit on 16-8-2011 by anti72 because: (no reason given)


LOL, I expected an answer like this, not able to explain.

A perfect example of a non-believer, that cannot make another contructive post explaining my questions.
Thanks for your reply.
edit on 16-8-2011 by Required01 because: typo



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by ButterCookie
 




They drew circles around all of the 'heavenly' characters, when they were more than likely helmets for breathing purposes ( like our astronauts)


This is simply ripping the halo out of context to repaint it. You are aware that Jesus and his disciples are often depicted with halos right? Are you suggesting that they are aliens and walked around Galilee in broad daylight wearing high-tech breathing apparatuses?

Reading aliens into Biblical myth is just empty reinterpretation. It relies on picking out the handful of stories that can be construed as ETs messing with ancient man and ignores the rest. What of Balam and his talking donkey? Jephthah being moved by the spirit to give a burnt offering to God. Pharaoh's heart being hardened? Are you going to speculate into existence an alien mind-control ray as well?


I recall seeing a picture in a book about angels showing how the depiction of angels changed throughout history with them originally in the medieval times starting out as floating with helmets and moving closer to the ground eventually leading to the depiction of angels being grounded rather than floating and having halos rather than helmets in the renaissance era depictions. It should be noted I've also seen Ezekiel with a helmet and from all accounts he was not an angel.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by Required01
 


explain what? your ´theory´?..get a life man..

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
so, go on. Its not me that believes in AAT.

and, dont get personal.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 09:02 AM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


Great post!

You shouldn't be too hard on HC tho. They at least are trying to rub "us" the right way with some of their shows. We barely can say that from any other MSM.


Plus, one very important thing I always bare in mind. Do not beleve everything you see/read/hear. You should put the pieces together yourself and make up your own mind on what you beleve is right. So in regards of taking up interest for the subject, HC sure did catch your eye here.

As for the AAH, from what I have seen, and I saw quite some episodes, I don't think it is completely in need for debunking. Very interesting theory indeed.

What I never stopped to think during the series was; hell, these ancient so called aliens and alien artifacts sure look a hell lot like our modern stuff over here right now here. As if it was actually us going back in time to try and spark the light of civilization and technology earlier. But that's just a thought!

Again, great post.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by anti72
reply to post by Required01
 

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
.

Is what i have posted not extraordinary evidence(sort of)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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OP hit me up to here what you think about the proposals I've made.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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Sorry I meant I want to hear what you have to say about the proposals i've made.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by KingJames1337
 


First I apologize for not responding sooner.



It should be noted I've also seen Ezekiel with a helmet and from all accounts he was not an angel.


Helmets aren't a new invention, they've been used in warfare for thousands of years. Do you know what sort of helmet it was? I'd like to see some of these depictions.



But the stories that are brought up in the Sumerian tablets and Adam and Eve are similar.


It's clear that the Sumerians and Hebrews have similar ideas about Creation, the myths are very similar. This would suggest cultural mixing (perhaps during the Babylonian Exile?) that led to a blending of their Creation stories.



Now that last point might be a bit of a reach but why would gods continue to encourage fighting among people when it seems that the opposite would lead to true spiritual knowledge.


I don't think Gods ever actually pitted people against each other. It is far more likely that religious leaders, who at the time served as the sole middle man between the common people and their gods, merely TOLD the people that their god(s) had commanded these acts. In 1st Samuel 15 God's words are conveyed by Samuel to Saul telling them to go out and slaughter the Amalekites down to the last child. It's conceivable, indeed most likely, that no deity or alien delivered this message so Samuel but that it was either a political decision Samuel made or Samuel merely BELIEVED he had received message via some superstitious means.

I do agree though, peace is far more conducive to truth that warfare is yet even Jesus says he came not to bring peace but to bring a "sword".



Satan caused Adam and Eve to disobey God


This is a common misconception. The interpretation that the serpent in the garden was Satan is an interpretation that emerged long after Genesis was written. In fact the serpent might have more to do with with Sumerian creation myth (which I believe actually mentions the serpent Tiamat) but then it might not. Anyway Genesis seems clear that the serpent was a creature that God had made, no mention of it being Satan is made.

I'd like to know what this has to do with ancient aliens. I mean don't get me wrong I like talking about mythology but it should be linked to the topic of the thread somehow


reply to post by cheddercheese99
 




Do you really think that a quasi-stone age civilization could possibly accomplish this?


Yes.

And your analogies to other buildings don't work for the following reasons:

1) differences in construction materials and techniques

2) differences in building shape

3) difference in the kind of ground each building is built on (the Giza Plateau isn't the same as the Virginia Maryland border)

4) difference in building utility (the function of each building is different)

5) Climate differences

Etc.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by KingJames1337
 


First I apologize for not responding sooner.



It should be noted I've also seen Ezekiel with a helmet and from all accounts he was not an angel.


Helmets aren't a new invention, they've been used in warfare for thousands of years. Do you know what sort of helmet it was? I'd like to see some of these depictions.



But the stories that are brought up in the Sumerian tablets and Adam and Eve are similar.


It's clear that the Sumerians and Hebrews have similar ideas about Creation, the myths are very similar. This would suggest cultural mixing (perhaps during the Babylonian Exile?) that led to a blending of their Creation stories.



Now that last point might be a bit of a reach but why would gods continue to encourage fighting among people when it seems that the opposite would lead to true spiritual knowledge.


I don't think Gods ever actually pitted people against each other. It is far more likely that religious leaders, who at the time served as the sole middle man between the common people and their gods, merely TOLD the people that their god(s) had commanded these acts. In 1st Samuel 15 God's words are conveyed by Samuel to Saul telling them to go out and slaughter the Amalekites down to the last child. It's conceivable, indeed most likely, that no deity or alien delivered this message so Samuel but that it was either a political decision Samuel made or Samuel merely BELIEVED he had received message via some superstitious means.

I do agree though, peace is far more conducive to truth that warfare is yet even Jesus says he came not to bring peace but to bring a "sword".



Satan caused Adam and Eve to disobey God


This is a common misconception. The interpretation that the serpent in the garden was Satan is an interpretation that emerged long after Genesis was written. In fact the serpent might have more to do with with Sumerian creation myth (which I believe actually mentions the serpent Tiamat) but then it might not. Anyway Genesis seems clear that the serpent was a creature that God had made, no mention of it being Satan is made.

I'd like to know what this has to do with ancient aliens. I mean don't get me wrong I like talking about mythology but it should be linked to the topic of the thread somehow



 




Do you really think that a quasi-stone age civilization could possibly accomplish this?






Sorry I'm not very good at responding to quotes but as far as the sumerian story it seems to be consistent with every religion I have been looking at including Islam and the story seems to be the same Muslim-jinn disagrees with obeying god sent to hell for being too arrogant. Jehovah's witness(the most clear one)- Satan was originally a perfect angel who developed feelings of self-importance and craved worship. Satan caused Adam and Eve to disobey God, and humanity subsequently became participants in a challenge involving the competing claims of Jehovah and Satan to universal sovereignty. I can't find the post I put out but it showed Jehovah being very cruel and even in one text joshua 11:19-20 'There was not a city that made peace with the children of Israel, save the Hi-vites the, the inhabitants of Gib-eon, all others they took in battle, For it was the Lord who hardened their hearts, that they would go against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, and that they might find no favor, but that he might destroy them...' keep in mind this was after Jehovah had told the people of Israel to embark on a genocide against these very towns. As far as Jesus according to some sources he was more interested in Buddhist religions and the true path to spiritual knowledge but had the title of messiah forced on him and ended up spreading end of days theories he opposed after his crucifixion. As far as what this has to do with ancient aliens it appears history has been muddled with false end of days theories encouraging 'final battles' for spiritual salvation in Islam with god-Enlil and the jinn that disobeyed-EA or Satan-EA and Jehovah-Enlil or zoaroastarianism EA- Angra Mainyu Enlil-Ahura Mazda zoaroastarianism in particular being one of the first end of days theories in which The final savior of the world, Saoshyant, will be born to a virgin impregnated by the seed of Zoroaster while bathing in a lake. Saoshyant will raise the dead – including those in both heaven and hell – for final judgment, returning the wicked to hell to be purged of bodily sin. Pretty much what Jesus was set up for and the Antichrist is Ahi Dahaka. Not to mention this is all imparted by a 'god' who didn't do a pretty good job disguising himself in Ahura Mazda. As far as mythology I don' t see the Sumerian tablets as myths I mean there's always the possibility The Sumerians were all drugged up but if true they tend to be consistent with the other stories and the tower of babel story claims how the 'gods' wanted us divided which doesn't make sense because dividing people can no way help them, also why would 'gods' create famine and disease and be ruthless against their people.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 12:41 AM
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its one thing to say, hey look at this imagery its interesting, its entirely possible that these images are exactly what they appear to be, ufos. i think thats pretty compelling in itself, but thats not enough for ancient alien theorists like david childress and giorgio tsoukalos.

they prefer to contend that, hey look at this pyramid, it must be a nuclear reactor for aliens, who genetically engineered humans as slaves.

so one is plausible, ufos being depicted in art. the other implausible, attributing all human architectural and engineering achievements to alien involvement.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 01:59 AM
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One example of the 'gods' manipulating others is the crusades. Islam the final revelation of god honors Moses and Jesus as the two previous messenger of god and that it was the duty of all Jews and Christians to convert to Islam. Christianity already said in it's apocalyptic theory to beware of false messiahs such as Mohammad or the next in line of succession of. Christianity says that Jesus Christ will lead the forces of good (believers in Christianity) over those led under the false prophet or Antichrist (Mohammad or whoever was next in line of succession) and after the final battle when Jesus is triumphant there will be a day of judgement and those that believed in Christianity will be granted entrance into heaven. Unfortunately 'final battles' keep happening and there is no second coming of whoever and no entrance into heaven. Please correct if I'm wrong on anything because history is a bit of a tough subject to follow sometimes and I might be wrong on some stuff.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 02:15 AM
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Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 
I think debunking ancient astronaut claims is like shouting at the wind to go away. Or destroying an ant nest...one ant at a time. The evidence to support the claims is, without exception, garbage.

In my few years on ATS I've written hundreds of posts against ancient astronaut ideas. One thing I've realised is that it is a hoax and a way to make money by a group of inter-connected and self-supporting people. Not so much a 'conspiracy' but certainly a manipulative and deceitful intention to make money from certain people.

Years ago, I was one of those 'certain people.'

So now we see Bob Temple, Lloyd Pye, Hatcher-Childress and Graham Hancock following in the footsteps of Von Daniken, Sitchen and Charles Berlitz. Frauds to a man because they *know* that a large part of what they are selling isn't the truth or based on evidence. When their evidence has been refuted and drawn to their attention, have they ever offered retractions? Hancock has altered his position, but the others continue to sell what they know is misleading, misidentified or plain hoaxes.

The supporting network that feeds them and feeds off them is primarily outlets like Coast to Coast and the History Channel. The internet allows minor (sleazy) players like the Wayne Herschels and Melchezedeks of the world to subsidise their incomes via the paypal buttons.

Ancient Astronaut ideas won't ever go away as long as a small percentage of people enjoy attributing all of humanity's achievements to ******** aliens! Some are genuinely fascinated by the notions (I was once), but others are amongst the most credulous and idiotic folk in the world.

Fraud couldn't exist without them.


Starred and flagged for being very clear and extensive. It's a dirty job and some folk actually hate those who do it lol



I see where your coming from a lot of people have made a lot of money from these claims but the guy whose book I'am reading was a lonely book on the shelves that was only $8 and I found by accident(I was looking for Von Daniken's book. And I don't know what I've suggested is complete garbage, I mean a bit hard to believe and speculative but addressing consistent themes in history if the sources can be trusted.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 02:25 AM
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anti72,

ATS consist only of people who have limited or no knowledge about things, they are not professional debunkers, I really don't get what some want to say with 'this has been debunked many times' debunekd by who? Who are you? Nobodies, i am too, since im not professional investigator, sketpic, debunker or anyone having anything other than a PC and internet to read from.

Even if some are fakers, it is hardly the reason to rely on some ATS opinions, wtf is that?

If people were just making books and doing it for money, then why the similarities with contemporary descriptions of UFOs?

I dont get it? Why do you take yourself so seriously here, people? YOU ARE NOBODIES. No one can start wrld news cause you said something on a thread that there are aliens, also no one will accept your debunking for the same reason... Same for OP, do you think your opinion makes a difference to start this thread so will you look at that you must be speaking the truth? When someone makes a thread with a title 'X debunked' damn stupidity
edit on 17-8-2011 by Imtor because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 03:03 AM
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Islam on Adam and Eve:
The Qur'an doesn't name this tree and it is always referred to as "the tree". Muslims believe that when God created Adam and Eve, He told them that they could enjoy everything in the Garden but this tree, and so, Satan appeared to them and told them that the only reason God forbade them to eat from that tree is that they would become Angels or become immortals.
When they ate from this tree their nakedness appeared to them and they began to sew together, for their covering, leaves from the Garden. As a result of their sin, they were removed from heaven and placed on Earth to live and die. Consequently, they repented to God and asked for his forgiveness and were forgiven. It was decided that those who obey God and follow his path shall be rewarded with everlasting life in Heaven, and those who disobey God and stray away from his path shall be punished in Hell.

Also I have to get some jock itch cream....that's tmi not all this # I'am posting here.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 03:16 AM
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reply to post by KingJames1337
 
Hiya, I don't have a lot to say about AA any more and switched from fan and tentative believer to complete disbelief a long time ago. The main thing that drags me into AA threads is when a member gleefully decries all of science and history as a 'lie.' Then they go and replace some 4/5000 years of human study and achievement with 'aliens did it.' Almost without exception, neither they or the people star/flagging them have even read any academic literature from which to base a view on.

Looking at your posts in this thread, the first two were too 'wall of text,' but I skimmed the gist of them. The Bramley book is interesting for the old quotations of mysterious figures and apparent spraying of chemicals. Very distinct from the usual AA trash. His overall position isn't one I subscribe to and I had trouble finding secondary sources for his quotes in order to add context. Last year, I was thinking of posting a thread featuring the plague quotes, but the book from which he sourced them wasn't available in my area.



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