A Better World Without Men?

reply to post by Itop1

OK, lets narrow it down even more: they were men of what race?
Such distinctions have been hovering about the thread for ages.
So let's just say it.

Ooh, but it's better to engage in misandry or misogyny - anything but racism!

Now lets break those violent crime and invention statistics down again.
Or no - rather not...

Watch the biological determinism fly out the door - as it should.
So funny.


It's just an elitist Western debate.
It just assumes that non-Western women would agree with their Western "sisters".
No woman has the right to think for all women.
What have the Western women on this thread done for other women lately?
Obviously not much.
Much of Africa and the world sees the US as violent people, and they'd rather imagine a world without it, rather than their own men.
Many even regard Western feminism with absolute horror.

That may be conjecture, but it's simply not useful to divide humanity by gender (by the very distinction that causes gender violence) without other considerations.
If only women remain, how will they resolve the Mid-East crises, or 3rd World poverty?
Will they do any better?
I wonder.

Originally posted by halfoldmanHowever, I actually wanted to discuss gender roles and masculinity, and not dated attacks on women.

What do you think of the gender roles as present in an avrage familly? How would you like to see them change?

Maculinity is a difficult one because its almost going to change every time you talk to some one differnt. So how would you define it?

The gender roles in a familly haven't changed all that much in my opion over the last 50 years. You still have men bringing in more money than women yes women do work more now than they did 50 years ago but at the end of the day they are still the mothers and wifes, just from my own observations. Everybody wants a better life which alot of people think of that as having more stuff which is easier to do with two incomes, and maybe its just me but thats the main reason I see women working if they are married.

Now what if women went to work and the men stated home to raise the childern?

I can say my father was violent but he did not want to be. What would happen is after school me and my brother would fight or what ever and my mom would say stuff like just wait till your father gets home or something like that. She would then yell at for an hour about us fighting makeing him angry and then we would get our spankings right. It took my mother a hole hour of yelling to get him angry but sometimes that wasn't even enough to anger him. Sometimes he would just simply come in there and talk to us and we had to fake tears for my mother. So I can say my father was violent but did he want to be?

Not to say that he didn't have controle of his emotions if he let them be over ran by someone else. but thats how it was when I was growing up to make my father look evil. Me myself being male people would assume that I would follow that sort of path and be evil, but thats just not real thats just jumping around making conculsion.

The problem comes down that all people have points and once they reach them they go crazy no matter what. If the calm and rattional mind was to stay in place everything could be done better.

reply to post by Doublemint

Lots of good points.
Especially the issue of the father as the violent punisher of boys is highlighted ("Just wait till your father comes home").
Now what kind of message does that send about masculinity?

I see today they have all kinds of programs on reality TV from training your dog, to training your kids.
Now those methods work, and they are no longer violent.
But they take a lot of effort.

I cannot say much about gender and family otherwise, because here I'm also thinking of the dominant black culture in SA.
Traditionally they are very conservative.

Different cultures have different problems.

In Germany men have been staying home and watching the child since the early 1980's.
Back then they called it the "new man".
It's not really a mass movement though, and is usually a matter of circumstance.

The fact is women will face better employment opportunities than the man in a heterosexual relationship nowadays.
So there may be role reversals in many households at some point.

As women climb the career ladder (and assume the masculine role) their health is also suffering.

Well, isn't that what they wanted, or maybe they wanted it both ways?

As for gender - I'd go the accepted route (unless a child signals that it is not happy in its role), but I'd also inform my kids on gender history and alternatives.
Just so if my child is mixed-race, or it is bi-cultural.
I'd inform that child of both histories.
It will be accepted to grow either way, when it's time for that.
The point would be to interrogate violent sports - I wouldn't say turn it off.
For example, I could ask what that type of violence achieves in real life.

Originally posted by Itop1
Majority of the brightest minds, even now are men, yes you get woman ofcourse but the majority are men, majority of scientists are men, the majority of most intelligent humans on earth are men, i allways see more male doctors, i never see any female brain surgeons, i rarely see any woman working in the field of physics, yes they do exist but not as much as men...

just look at this page:
public.web.cern.ch...

16 men
2 woman

lets look at some more....

Who invented the most popular used software?
a man

Who inveted the first television?
a man

Who invented the first combustion engine?
a man

Lightbulbs
a man

i could go on but i will not be sexist....

woman have invented stuff also:

windshield wipers
disposable diapers
mars rover
first computer language

but it pales in comparison.

I'm with you that men are essential, but your argument is just silly. Computer language was used to write the most popular used software. The Mars rover is not exactly a simple mechanism. It's impossible to see in bad weather without windshield wipers..

Are you also racist? Because surely white people have many more inventions than other races...

...My point is... what do inventions have to do with anything about peace and a more harmonious planet?

Originally posted by gabby2011
I'm sure I'm not the only woman who read that and thought,wow..she needs to get over herself.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that just read this and thought, "Wow, hypocrites sure love floral avatars."

Let's face it, power corrupts!

So if men have certain characteristics that you believe lead to war and such, perhaps men have developed these charectoristcs as a result of the fact men have been in power longer.

Had men never been "in power", perhaps women would have developed these charectoristcs you dislike and therefor we'd be in exactly the same place we are now, only street signs would be pink?

Originally posted by gabby2011

Originally posted by B.Morrison
only a woman can take the life of a human she herself gave birth too. Those crimes are the ones that get to me the most. And I'm not talking about abortion.

Peace,
-Bob

edit on 3/6/11 by B.Morrison because: (no reason given)

Excuse me..are you trying to say no father has ever killed his own child ???

C'mon now..I think you need to do a little research on that one..not to mention the ones that have tortured and molested their own.

no if you read carefully I was saying that only a woman can firstly give birth to a child & then kill it. Men cannot give birth. I'm not disputing the points you raised just pointing out the misunderstanding.

Peace,
-Bob

Originally posted by B.Morrison

Originally posted by gabby2011

Originally posted by B.Morrison
only a woman can take the life of a human she herself gave birth too. Those crimes are the ones that get to me the most. And I'm not talking about abortion.

Peace,
-Bob

edit on 3/6/11 by B.Morrison because: (no reason given)

Excuse me..are you trying to say no father has ever killed his own child ???

C'mon now..I think you need to do a little research on that one..not to mention the ones that have tortured and molested their own.

no if you read carefully I was saying that only a woman can firstly give birth to a child & then kill it. Men cannot give birth. I'm not disputing the points you raised just pointing out the misunderstanding.

Peace,
-Bob

ok thanks for clarifying what you meant.

Gerald Celente reminds us that the push for war in Libya was lead by Hilary Clinton, Samantha Powers and Condaleza Rice.

www.youtube.com...

Hillary Clinton described the possibility of obliterating Iran if she were to become President and now she's our Secretary of State.

www.youtube.com...

I don't care who starts a war. If Hilary Clinton would obliterate a country then she is no better than a warmongering man.

Women would carry on the class system and continue to dominate each other with out men.

Clearly you do not understand what women go through when they encounter a man who looks and behaves in a threatening manner. It's not just a man's looks alone that frighten some of us, it's the behavior, their body language and words that come out of their mouths. Men in and of themselves are not frightening. Predatory men are.

A fearful and drama queen type statement.

You are most definitely a feminist basically a woman that believes you can treat men like crap because it gives your sex "strength" and "fortitude" and if a man behaves like a man then he is an abusive, violent and hatefull person towards women.

You feminists always find new and inventive ways too blame men for what they do and for what women do. One way or another its a man's fault.




Maybe as a women things like shoes, handbags, plastering makeup all over your faces, gossiping and interfering with others lives should become a thing of the past and learning that when you are advised not to eat the apple you take that advise.

People make of life what they will. If you are downtrodden then change it, if you fear something - meet it head on. Just stop the moaning and dramatics without checking all your fact.

Practice lining all your ducks up in a row first before you jump head long into a argument that is based on your fear of people who may or may not be lurking round the next corner.

Look, this will sound a bit bad but I don't care. Men's role in life originally was to be the hunter gatherer. Women's were the rearer of children and making the food.

However, amongst all your moaning, you women have been surpassed in the role of cooking by men. The best chefs in the world are now men. So you let that slip through your fingers. Even in the fashion world women are being out done by the Gay man. Part man part woman - all fashion. You lose there too. I just think its a lack of effort on the collective woman's part and too many off you forming groups to combat your "harsh" treatment and pushing for your rights. All the while Men do not form these groups. We just find new and creative ways to stay one step ahead.

That too me is called SMART. Eye on the prize, love!!

Seems you are trying to apply this to today's social standards, and those standards will always change, and rather quickly. What will those standards be like in 50 100 500 years? When you look at much of the life on the planet it is the female in charge, and even eats the males in some cases... hehe, but to blame the world woes on males while suggesting women would do it all better is rather ignorant to say the least.

Jokingly... if there we no females in the world then men would have nothing to fight over...

If there were no men left women would have no one to pick on , whine about and argue with.

Fortunately there will always be men.

if nothing else a thought provoking post

If there were no men, women would not be women either. We would be something else. And worse-off for it.

And the world would be a very sad place.

Peace