A female Navy Seal? not yet.

Hey I know what can solve this! Maybe if the Seals developed a test. A test that challenges the participants physical and mental capabilities and if one were to pass this test then they are deemed worthy to become a Seal. If a female can pass this, shouldn't that mean she's qualified? ....oh wait....that's what were talking about??

/sarcasm

I read well into the 2nd page and immediately had to comment. First off I am a male. I for one believe that men are generally physically stronger than women but if the female can pass the test and this test is exactly the same for the males, then she has the basic physical strength required, because outside of close combat we use sophisticated weaponry. If she passed the test and has to fight in close combat, if she's well trained she can do well, asians are regarded as the best martial artists, and amongst all the other races, they are the most petite.

So that handles the physical department.

On the mental department, fellow men please get off your high horses. I love to bash the next female from time to time, you know get your superiority fix but let's face it. Men are just as susceptible to not being able to handle situations mentally and emotionally just as females. Even those of you saying women can never become a seal, acknowledge that many men can't deal with the stress, you say that to diminish the females chances, but your only hurting your argument because like I said, females and males are equal in this department. Granted both genders have different issues that cause one or the other to not be able to cope with stress, but men are not superheroes.

Vishnir or Becoming, I forget which(I'm on my mobile phone, to lazy to go back and verify the user), said that women can't deal emotionally or handle stressful environments. Nixi retorts with the fact that there are many shock trauma nurses, and I for one agree. Then vish or bec respond with the fact that when a hard choice arises, women are less likely to make the hard choice. What I'm getting at is, you just tried to flip the script! Your clutching at straws here because I for one don't see what proves men can handle better then women. Because of women's reputation? Well we kind of #ed on women's reputation for centuries.

Like someone else said, if the female knows she can hang with the big boys and can prove it, then don't pit her with the other females, she already stands apart from other type of women to even want to join.

Oh and the menstruation in the forest bit...LMAO! Yes because Al Qaeda has the incredible sense of smell....oh you mean because bears might attack the troop thinking it smelled salmon? I'm sure when your on a mission, you having to wipe your ass after nature calls is equally as distracting as a female soldier changing her pad.

For a forum that should be open minded for conspiracies, sexism and (off topic) homophobia runs rampant here. Again, for the record I'm a straight male.

ETA: One thing I can agree on that I read is how a female's presence can distract a male though. # I know I would....

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by nixie_nox

 

There are plenty of women special operators. I knew two of them. Look up SAD operatives and Joint Tactics operations and you can find many jobs women have in the special ops world.

As for Navy seals, green berets, etc, they nor the rest of the military is a democracy, and the troops do not have a say. Its a dictatorship in the military. The ability to choose what you want to do is not always available, even for many men.

They may have jobs within those SOP's but none of them are operators...not one is a woman.

No Delta
No SEALS
No RECON
No Rangers
No PJ's

NONE are operators, you were lied too. The military doesnt allow woman operators, although I have heard they have spent some time letting select woman test to see if there was a place and the rumor is, not one woman has been able to keep up with the physical demands.

reply to post by Redwookieaz


OK, The people with heads on their shoulders are not saying that men are better than women. We are saying that there are things that women are better at than men and somethings men are better at then women and combat is one of them. You say your friend kicked some guy butt. Right? Take that same friend and pitt her against a guy the same size as her that had the same training that she had and she will get her butt handed to her in 2 seconds flat. That is one of the reasons women can not be in the SEALs. There was a reason why women stayed home and men went hunting back in the day. We were built for it. I am sure there are women that are better than men at things like that but most are not. That's just the way we evolved.

Originally posted by Thekid90
Hey I know what can solve this! Maybe if the Seals developed a test. A test that challenges the participants physical and mental capabilities and if one were to pass this test then they are deemed worthy to become a Seal. If a female can pass this, shouldn't that mean she's qualified? ....oh wait....that's what were talking about??

/sarcasm

I read well into the 2nd page and immediately had to comment. First off I am a male. I for one believe that men are generally physically stronger than women but if the female can pass the test and this test is exactly the same for the males, then she has the basic physical strength required, because outside of close combat we use sophisticated weaponry. If she passed the test and has to fight in close combat, if she's well trained she can do well, asians are regarded as the best martial artists, and amongst all the other races, they are the most petite.

So that handles the physical department.

On the mental department, fellow men please get off your high horses. I love to bash the next female from time to time, you know get your superiority fix but let's face it. Men are just as susceptible to not being able to handle situations mentally and emotionally just as females. Even those of you saying women can never become a seal, acknowledge that many men can't deal with the stress, you say that to diminish the females chances, but your only hurting your argument because like I said, females and males are equal in this department. Granted both genders have different issues that cause one or the other to not be able to cope with stress, but men are not superheroes.

Vishnir or Becoming, I forget which(I'm on my mobile phone, to lazy to go back and verify the user), said that women can't deal emotionally or handle stressful environments. Nicki retorts with the fact that there are many shock trauma nurses, and I for one agree. Then vish or bec respond with the fact that when a hard choice arises, women are less likely to make the hard choice. What I'm getting at is, you just tried to flip the script! Your clutching at straws here because I for one don't see what proves men can handle better then women. Because of women's reputation? Well we kind of #ed on women's reputation for centuries.

Like someone else said, if the female knows she can hang with the big boys and can prove it, then don't pit her with the other females, she already stands apart from other type of women to even want to join.

Oh and the menstruation in the forest bit...LMAO! Yes because Al Qaeda has the incredible sense of smell....oh you mean because bears might attack the troop thinking it smelled salmon? I'm sure when your on a mission, you having to wipe your ass after nature calls is equally as distracting as a female soldier changing her pad.

For a forum that should be open minded for conspiracies, sexism and (off topic) homophobia runs rampant here.

Again, for the record I'm a straight male.

You need not go back too far in the History of war to prove your "smell in the woods" comment. Read some first hand accounts of LRP's in Vietnam and they will tell you first hand that they could smell the fish oil that many VC/NVA put on their foods sweating from the enemies poors 100's of yds away

You have clearly never spent enough time in the bush to uderstand this. You can smell a cigarette from over a mile away if their is the slightest breeze.

The smell of Urine of a slightly dehydrated human can be smelled almost 100yds away.

You dont give the human sense of smell enough credit when a life is on the line

I wouldn't describe myself as a sexist person, I believe that men and women being biologically different beasts also have different strengths and weaknesses.

If a woman could pass all the tests then I suppose there would be no reason she shouldn't be a member of the special forces, however 99.9% of women wouldn't pass the tests.

Men will always be naturally stronger than women, that's a fact that cannot be ignored. If you took a male and female, both with the same level of determination and same training routine, the male would always excel in comparison to the female.

It might sound old fashioned but in my opinion women shouldn't be crapping in holes in the ground and slitting peoples throats, don't get me wrong I'm all for sexual equality but like I said at the beginning men will always be better at certain things and vice versa.

Due to hormonal differences, the majority of the time, men will always be better at being tough and women will always be better at being nice (in one shape or form!)

From personal experience, I've known and met many so called "hard" women who have always in one way or another reverted to the stereotypical depiction of a female. On the other hand, I've known some men to display feminist traits on the odd occasion but in general men will always be men and women will always be women.

reply to post by milkyway12


I don't know to what extent her death may have affected you, but I'm sorry. Was she a soldier too? Only reason why I can think she was in a combat zone and why it tells you that women should not be in battle period. However, if she's not a soldier, or even if she was, her poor choice to run out and the way she couldn't cope in her dying moments, does not speak out for the rest of the females. I'm also sure cats all don't die the same way and god forbid I learn if I'm right or wrong in that assessment. You can't generalize like that. I feel stereotypes exist for a reason, and it should be for cautionary purposes. But in a situation where it's the elite of the elite, if that women is an elite, it's most likely she doesn't share that trait (that is not exclusive to females) that that poor woman had.

Also, I am not trying to prove that women are stronger, smarter or more skilled. I'm trying to prove that women can be just AS strong, smart, and skilled....or at least just as smart and skilled lol =P

P.S. May her and her boyfriend rest in piece. I am curious if I read your post correctly...you said she tore her intestines??!

Originally posted by fooks
trying to embed,

edit on 3-6-2011 by dbates because: (no reason given)

One of my fav. femal strength reps.

Good 1 from my one of my fav movies...

Originally posted by armtx
You need not go back too far in the History of war to prove your "smell in the woods" comment. Read some first hand accounts of LRP's in Vietnam and they will tell you first hand that they could smell the fish oil that many VC/NVA put on their foods sweating from the enemies poors 100's of yds away

You have clearly never spent enough time in the bush to uderstand this. You can smell a cigarette from over a mile away if their is the slightest breeze.

The smell of Urine of a slightly dehydrated human can be smelled almost 100yds away.

You dont give the human sense of smell enough credit when a life is on the line

Oh wow that's crazy, no honestly I haven't. Interesting, thanks for the tid bit. But the point of the argument here is, the smell of menstruation will put the troops at risk. You've said that they were able to smell the fish oil from the food's they ingested and excreted from their pores correct? Then that mean's the smell of men as well as women can put the troops at risk. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, I have been blessed with the fact that I have never gotten a whiff of the "red river" but I assume it would be more akin to iron then fish. (I cannot believe I'm having this conversation lol) If it's a battlefield, blood and the smell of iron would be common place, not to mention this menstruation goes on under layers of clothing, where as the sweat from your pores emanate throughout your whole body.

To me, that sounds like men are equally as risky in the "smell" department too.

reply to post by Sinny


My point exactly. Women can get effected just as much as men psychologically on the battle, even more so. With women in an infantry unit, it changes the whole atmosphere of it. There is going to be relationships, romantic ones. Seeing a soldier that you have an intimate relationship die before you is going to disturb you more than just your buddy getting hit. If that happens the fighting ability of the unit deteriorates rapidly. I'm all for women serving in most capacities in the military, but not in front line combat units.

Also, every person in the squad needs to be able to hump their load and possibly the load (and maybe body) of every other member in the squad

So after reading the very first page I decided to skip to the end and put my two cents in. LOL at all the females in this thread making a big deal out of this scenario. There are only three reasons why women are not allowed in combat.

1. Hygiene.
2. Psychological reasons.
3. Perpetuation of our species.

Hygiene should be obvious, it is way easier to keep male genitalia clean than it is female genitalia. I have been in the field up to 6 months without a shower, think about that for a minute. The moral of losing a woman is far greater than losing a man. Those tough navy seals men would go insane if they saw a womans brains spattered all over them in the same foxhole. Its better to keep the only child bearers of our race out of combat to ensure perpetuation of the species.

These are simple facts, nothing sexists about it.

Originally posted by gallopinghordes
Excuse me? First lets answer the push-up question; I was in the Navy; had to pass physical fitness testing which included push-ups and let me tell you they were just the same as men; passed EVERY time but some of the oh so strong men didn't.

How dare any man come on this or any other thread and make some inane comment about women not being as strong emotionally. Are you kidding me? I'd love to see men deal with what we deal with on a daily basis. In the event of an emergency I'd rather have the women I work with then most men.

Now let's address the argument of oh my gosh what happens when she has her monthly cycle? We deal with it. I trained as a member of the react team on my base and we didn't stop training or responding because we were on our period. That is about the lamest excuse for discriminating against women I've ever heard. Give me a break.

It all boils down to this; if a woman can pass the same test as the men and is crazy enough to want to do it then she should be allowed to. Too bad if men don't like it. Some men don't like lots of things women now do for a career; tough beans.

It looks like you were seriously offended by this thread, this reinforces the emotional distraction women cant help but be affected by. By the way, the requirements for women in the armed forces (pushups etc) usually are far less than men so you guys get a break.

I am not a woman, but I live with one, and as much as I respect her she has shown me things that only reinforce the sentiments of some of the other posters.

She is in great shape, is of sound mind, is smart/successful, and is a trusted friend and partner, I would give my life in defense of her. That being said, her maternal instincts make her succeptable to hesitation when it comes down to harming another living thing.

I on the other hand would not hesitate to slit a throat.

When its that time of the month, she doesnt call in sick to work, but I know she's in pain (cramps) and goes through her day fatigued (hormonal imbalance) and in misery.

Would you want to put your life in the hands of someone who a) is physically not as capable and b) could have health aspects that are making them less than 100%

Sorry girls, "Salt" was a bad ass movie, but in real life women capable of keeping up with the best of the best of the armed forces are a rare bird indeed.

I met a girl about a year ago and was told she was a Navy Seal.

Originally posted by WhiteDevil013

Originally posted by gallopinghordes
Excuse me? First lets answer the push-up question; I was in the Navy; had to pass physical fitness testing which included push-ups and let me tell you they were just the same as men; passed EVERY time but some of the oh so strong men didn't.

How dare any man come on this or any other thread and make some inane comment about women not being as strong emotionally. Are you kidding me? I'd love to see men deal with what we deal with on a daily basis. In the event of an emergency I'd rather have the women I work with then most men.

Now let's address the argument of oh my gosh what happens when she has her monthly cycle? We deal with it. I trained as a member of the react team on my base and we didn't stop training or responding because we were on our period. That is about the lamest excuse for discriminating against women I've ever heard. Give me a break.

It all boils down to this; if a woman can pass the same test as the men and is crazy enough to want to do it then she should be allowed to. Too bad if men don't like it. Some men don't like lots of things women now do for a career; tough beans.

It looks like you were seriously offended by this thread, this reinforces the emotional distraction women cant help but be affected by. By the way, the requirements for women in the armed forces (pushups etc) usually are far less than men so you guys get a break.

I am not a woman, but I live with one, and as much as I respect her she has shown me things that only reinforce the sentiments of some of the other posters.

She is in great shape, is of sound mind, is smart/successful, and is a trusted friend and partner, I would give my life in defense of her. That being said, her maternal instincts make her succeptable to hesitation when it comes down to harming another living thing.

I on the other hand would not hesitate to slit a throat.

When its that time of the month, she doesnt call in sick to work, but I know she's in pain (cramps) and goes through her day fatigued (hormonal imbalance) and in misery.

Would you want to put your life in the hands of someone who a) is physically not as capable and b) could have health aspects that are making them less than 100%

Sorry girls, "Salt" was a bad ass movie, but in real life women capable of keeping up with the best of the best of the armed forces are a rare bird indeed.

Salt was an MK-Ultra trained killer, movie was based on a real woman. That was the difference, she was a soulless killing machine. I wouldn't hesitate slitting your throat either, I'm 14, female and really don't give an f about anything.

I tried to kill my aunt's dog, because it looked at me wrong. Dude, I am a psychopath and I feel little emotion. There is a difference between anti-socialism and fantasizing murder, I fantasize murder mostly but do not act on it.

The only reason I won't join the army when I get older ? Is because I hate authority, if I can't control it. I don't want it.

Has a female ever passed the test?

reply to post by armtx


You miss the point of my post. I guess you were never in the military. I said look up SAD operators, they are CIA black. As well as joint tactics ops, where many WOMEN operators are "used".

Now read the second part of my post again about common known and used military nomenclature groups and will see I stated a choice to be what you want is not always given in the military. Re-read man.....

I have a few points to make here. As a male I have no issues with females serving in combat. IF they can meet the same exact standards and men then let them in.

First: this has been done before. There ARE countries that do allow females to serve in combat arms and they actually do so. Yes, they may be few in number but they do serve in combat units. Somewhat related to this point is the Russian female snipers in World War II - there were multiple female snipers who had several hundred kills. Lyudmila Pavlichenko for instance had 309 confirmed kills, and is the highest scoring female sniper in history. 309 kills ... more than any US military sniper has ever made in the entire history of US military snipers. Over 800,000 women served in the Russian military during World War II, over 200,000 were decorated and about 90 were awarded the Hero of the Soviet Union (equivalent to our Medal of Honor).

Second: it is a proven fact that women are better shooters than men due to a higher level of patience and because they arent all macho and go off like Rambo. Women are also better coordinated, and have faster reflexes. They listen and they learn, they don't go "AR-15 YEAHHHHHHH this is just like COD!!!!!!!" without any concept of safety and proper care and use of a firearm.

Third: On to the strength issue. I am not a musclehead but I do regularly work out and I have noticed something about women in the gym: 50% stick to cardio (primarily the treadmill or the stationary bikes) and are utterly fearful of actually working out, 40% stick to the 5 pound dumbbells and never go 30 pounds on the machines because they are afraid they "will turn into Arnold", the other 10% are the gals who lift heavy and while they are nowhere near as big and strong as the biggest and strongest guys, they can lift alot and range anywhere from "muscular" to monster like (but still not as big as the biggest guys). I actually saw a woman maybe in her late 20s do a full set of 40 pound dumbbell chest presses the other day. Ive seen women leg press over 400 pounds as well. Obviously women cannot compare to men in this category.

Originally posted by Heartisblack
Salt was an MK-Ultra trained killer, movie was based on a real woman. That was the difference, she was a soulless killing machine. I wouldn't hesitate slitting your throat either, I'm 14, female and really don't give an f about anything.

I tried to kill my aunt's dog, because it looked at me wrong. Dude, I am a psychopath and I feel little emotion. There is a difference between anti-socialism and fantasizing murder, I fantasize murder mostly but do not act on it.

The only reason I won't join the army when I get older ? Is because I hate authority, if I can't control it. I don't want it.

edit on 3-6-2011 by Heartisblack because: (no reason given)

The BOLD text in your above reply i) completely works against you in what your trying to achieve & ii) proves you lack the maturity/intelligence or a combination of both to discuss this subject seriously...

P.S. another tip, real psychopath's don't feel the need to tell others they are....

Originally posted by Heartisblack

Originally posted by WhiteDevil013

Originally posted by gallopinghordes
Excuse me? First lets answer the push-up question; I was in the Navy; had to pass physical fitness testing which included push-ups and let me tell you they were just the same as men; passed EVERY time but some of the oh so strong men didn't.

How dare any man come on this or any other thread and make some inane comment about women not being as strong emotionally. Are you kidding me? I'd love to see men deal with what we deal with on a daily basis. In the event of an emergency I'd rather have the women I work with then most men.

Now let's address the argument of oh my gosh what happens when she has her monthly cycle? We deal with it. I trained as a member of the react team on my base and we didn't stop training or responding because we were on our period. That is about the lamest excuse for discriminating against women I've ever heard. Give me a break.

It all boils down to this; if a woman can pass the same test as the men and is crazy enough to want to do it then she should be allowed to. Too bad if men don't like it. Some men don't like lots of things women now do for a career; tough beans.

It looks like you were seriously offended by this thread, this reinforces the emotional distraction women cant help but be affected by. By the way, the requirements for women in the armed forces (pushups etc) usually are far less than men so you guys get a break.

I am not a woman, but I live with one, and as much as I respect her she has shown me things that only reinforce the sentiments of some of the other posters.

She is in great shape, is of sound mind, is smart/successful, and is a trusted friend and partner, I would give my life in defense of her. That being said, her maternal instincts make her succeptable to hesitation when it comes down to harming another living thing.

I on the other hand would not hesitate to slit a throat.

When its that time of the month, she doesnt call in sick to work, but I know she's in pain (cramps) and goes through her day fatigued (hormonal imbalance) and in misery.

Would you want to put your life in the hands of someone who a) is physically not as capable and b) could have health aspects that are making them less than 100%

Sorry girls, "Salt" was a bad ass movie, but in real life women capable of keeping up with the best of the best of the armed forces are a rare bird indeed.

Salt was an MK-Ultra trained killer, movie was based on a real woman. That was the difference, she was a soulless killing machine. I wouldn't hesitate slitting your throat either, I'm 14, female and really don't give an f about anything.

I tried to kill my aunt's dog, because it looked at me wrong. Dude, I am a psychopath and I feel little emotion. There is a difference between anti-socialism and fantasizing murder, I fantasize murder mostly but do not act on it.

The only reason I won't join the army when I get older ? Is because I hate authority, if I can't control it. I don't want it.

edit on 3-6-2011 by Heartisblack because: (no reason given)

So, what stopped you from killing the dog?

Debate’s raging on the Army Times Facebook page about the role of women in combat, and some of the most vehement arguments against women in combat are coming from Army wives.

“We both understand and respect the women in the armed forces but he does agree that they should not be let in more combat roles,” Denise Engle, the self-described “wife of an infantryMAN,” says about about her and her husband’s views.

“He says he already has a woman to protect (me) and he feels that he will be put in even more danger than he is already bc he is the type of man who will put his life on the line for a woman. i want my husband home alive I don’t want to hear he lost his life bc a woman couldn’t handle her job.”

The fight follows a poll that shows Americans strongly support allowing women in uniform to serve in combat, despite US military rules that ban women from combat units. AFP reports 67 percent of voters favored permitting women “to serve in ground units that engage in close combat” with 29 percent opposed.

MilitaryTimes

Obviously those serving are not so decided on women in combat roles.

USAWC STRATEGY RESEARCH PROJECT
WOMEN IN COMBAT: A CULTURE ISSUE?

Is the Physical Make-Up of Women Compatible with Combat?

Opponents of integrating women into combat units have questioned their physical ability
to serve in a combat arms branch, as well to engage effectively in ground combat. These
opponents believe that women are incapable of running long distances, carrying heavy loads, or
completing demanding physical tasks as well as their male counterparts. The Presidential
Commission on the Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces cited testimony about the
physical differences between men and women:

In a 1988 study of Army recruits, women were found to be more vulnerable to
exercise-induced injuries than men, with 2.13 times greater risk for lower
extremity injuries, and 4.71 times greater risk for stress fractures. Men sustained
99 days of limited duty due to injury, while women incurred 481 days of limited
duty.

The experience of other countries shows little evidence that women are suited for
ground combat. For example, of 103 women recruited for infantry training after
Canada repealed its combat rules in 1989, only one woman succeeded in
meeting the physical requirements necessary to complete the training.

During testimony before the 1992 Presidential Commission, “physiologists indicated that During testimony before the 1992 Presidential Commission, “physiologists indicated that approximately 50 to 60 percent that of men, while their aerobic capacity is approximately 70 to 75 percent that of men.” In light of these statistics, the Commission reported “a strong consensus that standards should not differentiate on the basis of gender. “ The Commission then unanimously approved a recommendation that “the services should adopt gender-neutral
muscular strength/endurance and cardiovascular capacity requirements.”

In other words, a Commission consisting of six generals, an admiral, and a colonel was presented with overwhelming evidence that women are generally speaking, physically inferior to men. However, if, as the Commission recommended, our military officials enact gender-neutral standards with respect to strength and endurance, no woman who is capable of meeting these standards should be denied the right to fight and die for her country.

All this doesn't mean women can't serve in combat but that they must perform to the same levels as men.

Conclusion

Throughout the last 60 years, women have gradually been integrated into the American
Armed Forces, and their specialties and expertise, not their gender, have taken them closer to
the battlefront. Today, women are serving effectively and honorably in Iraq and Afghanistan on
the front lines, and they are serving exceptionally well. The factors that govern the enlistment
and retention of personnel are numerous, complex and inter-related. However, women should
be admitted into combat and combat branches based solely on their training and ability, not
excluded because of their gender. A total integration of women into combat would not have a
significant effect on readiness, cohesion, morale, leadership and training.”

Source PDF

Not significant does not mean there will be no problems, just that they can handle them.

Originally posted by likeabull
I met a girl about a year ago and was told she was a Navy Seal.

Lol... well, so? Just because you were told that, doesn't make it true - were you trying to imply that it does?