Tornados are a Fema Drill, Next comes the earthquakes!!!!

reply to post by inanna1234


I kind of got that vibe when in the mentioned thread he never returned to comment/answer my question. Will see if he changes my mind in this one, doubtful.

reply to post by inanna1234

but to say an ELF is an EM makes no sense because an EM isn't always an ELF there are many types of EM's.

You are talking in circles. I said ELF (in reference to HAARP) is electromagnetic radiation. I did not say all electromagnetic radiation is ELF.

Sure, you can call very low sound frequencies ELF but that does not mean they are the same as electromagnetic ELF. And please show me where I said speakers cannot produce very low sound or electromagnetic frequencies.

Again, are you claiming that HAARP produces ELF sound waves (not electromagnetic waves) sufficient to produce earthquakes? Are you claiming that the antenna array produces sound? Can you provide a source for that? Even the "History" Channel program does not claim that.

Originally posted by Naptown317
reply to post by inanna1234

 

I kind of got that vibe when in the mentioned thread he never returned to comment/answer my question. Will see if he changes my mind in this one, doubtful.

I doubt it, I wonder if he's just confused about Science or if he's really trying to spread disinfo

BTW. I'm not saying I believe HARRP can scientifically change the weather in any way (because I have no idea what it even is? I've never looked into it) I'm just saying that this guy has no idea what he's talking about!

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by inanna1234

 

but to say an ELF is an EM makes no sense because an EM isn't always an ELF there are many types of EM's.

You are talking in circles. I said ELF (in reference to HAARP) is electromagnetic radiation. I did not say all electromagnetic radiation is ELF.

Sure, you can call very low sound frequencies ELF but that does not mean they are the same as electromagnetic ELF. And please show me where I said speakers cannot produce very low sound or electromagnetic frequencies.

Again, are you claiming that HAARP produces ELF sound waves (not electromagnetic waves) sufficient to produce earthquakes? Are you claiming that the antenna array produces sound? Can you provide a source for that? Even the "History" Channel program does not claim that.

OMG I don't even believe in this HARRP crap why do you keep bringing it up to me? You called EM's ELF's, I corrected you so people don't go run around uneducated. You also said subwoofers don't emit ELF's, it's on page 2. I also corrected you because I hate when people spread disinfo about basic science... you're the one talking in circles! Not I
I never claimed anything and you know that! You were making up science as you were going along.

You got HAARP and this:

reply to post by Naptown317

My apologizes for not answering your question.

What sort of "upgrades" do you mean? What "upgrades" would make it possible for electromagnetic radiation to create earthquakes?

reply to post by inanna1234


You are ignoring the context. I said the ELF produced by HAARP in the ionosphere is electromagnetic radiation.
It is. Show me where I said otherwise. Show me what is wrong with that statement.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by pajoly

 

ELF is not like the signals from your subwoofer.
ELF is electromagnetic radiation. Your subwoofer emits sound waves. They are not the same thing, just one of the things the "History" Channel got wrong.

Here you said ELF is electromagenetic radiation... you never said anything about an ELF produced by HARRP being an EM?
Maybe this is what you intended but you never stated it as fact? That's where I jumped in.

Listen bud I originally came on this thread telling people there was going to be no Huge Earth quake so I don't even know why you keep saying I'm defending the HARRP conspiracy theory.. When checking back I noticed your post. Maybe you meant to write certain things but I just went back and re read the whole post and you never said what you're saying you said. You said very clearly that ELF is electromagnetic radiation... you also said ELF are not emitted from subwoofers... I really don't know what you want me to say more from here?

reply to post by inanna1234

You are ignoring the context of my statements.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by inanna1234

 

You are ignoring the context of my statements.

I'm not even responding to you anymore, go read a book!

reply to post by Phage


Thanks Phage, what i'm trying to say is this. Now i'm not saying HAARP can or cannot do the unthinkable, because frankly I don't know. But hypothetically speaking if when HAARP was created, lets say it could do 1 thing. Hypothetically speaking couldn't someone upgrade it to do more than just that one thing. Whether its with some tools and physically upgrading the antennas, or with some type of software update via the computer programming.

My whole thought process was that even though we're TOLD what it supposedly can do, without having been there to build/operate this machine how do we know what it really can and cant do? I know you said that it cant transmit ELF waves, but again how do we know that during some point in time someone didn't slip in an give it the needed upgrade to make it capable of doing this?

Is it even possible to do such an upgrade hardware/software wise? In reference to my computer statement from the other thread. Many people can take a computer out of the box and make it do things not originally intended, so cant that same theory apply to HAARP?

I just went on the HARRP website and it says its "home of the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program" This means HARRP does not focus on Low Frequency (ELF's)

From what I've read on the Genereal Information page it actually sounds really interesting!

•The Ionospheric Research Instrument (IRI), a high power transmitter facility operating in the High Frequency (HF) range. The IRI will be used to temporarily excite a limited area of the ionosphere for scientific study.

Maybe the make and study weapons along with many other things? www.haarp.alaska.edu...

It sounds a lot like they use HF for communication? like radio signals etc.... and that they do a lot of research involving HF's
Why is it that people think HARRP controls weather? Like is there a Scientific reason why? Everything on there website checks out with me? It actually sounds like they get to research a lot of cool info!

We like to think that when the apple fell on Newton's head, it motivated him to think about the motion of heavenly bodies. Eventually, through a process akin to fundamental research, Newton was able to derive equations that described the orbits of planets in the solar system. He could not foresee how his laws of motion could be applied to space flight or to the launching of communication satellites.

In 1864, a Scottish mathematician named James Clerk Maxwell published a remarkable paper describing the means by which a wave consisting of electric and magnetic fields could propagate (or travel) from one place to another. Maxwell's theory of electromagnetic (EM) radiation was eventually proven correct by the German physicist, Heinrich Hertz in the late 1880's in a series of careful laboratory experiments.
It was not until the last decade of the 19th century that an Italian scientist named Guglielmo Marconi converted these theories and laboratory experiments into the first practical wireless telegraph system for which he was granted a British patent. In 1899, Marconi demonstrated his wireless communication technique across the English Channel.

In a landmark experiment on December 12, 1901, Marconi, who is often called the "Father of Wireless," demonstrated transatlantic communication by receiving a signal in St. John's Newfoundland that had been sent from Cornwall, England. Because of his pioneering work in the use of electromagnetic radiation for radio communications, Marconi was awarded the Nobel Prize in physics in 1909.

Marconi's famous experiment showed the way toward world wide communication, but it also raised a serious scientific dilemma. Up to this point, it had been assumed that electromagnetic radiation traveled in straight lines in a manner similar to light waves. If this were true, the maximum possible communication distance would be determined by the geometry of the path as shown in Figure 1 to the left. The radio signal would be heard up to the point where some intervening object blocked it. If there were no objects in the path, the maximum distance would be determined by the tranmitter and receiver antenna heights and by the bulge (or curvature) of the earth. Drawing from light as an analogy, this distance is often called the "Line-of-Sight" (LOS) distance. In Marconi's transatlantic demonstration, something different was happening to cause the radio waves to apparently bend around the Earth's curvature so that the communication signals from England could be heard over such an unprecedented distance.
In 1902, Oliver Heaviside and Arthur Kennelly each independently proposed that a conducting layer existed in the upper atmosphere that would allow a transmitted EM signal to be reflected back toward the Earth. Up to this time, there was no direct evidence of such a region and little was known about the physical or electrical properties of the Earth's upper atmosphere. If such a conductive layer existed, it would permit a dramatic extension of the "Line-of-Sight" limitation to radio communication as shown in Figure 2 to the left. During the mid-1920's, the invention of the ionosonde (an instrument that is an important part of the HAARP diagnostic suite) allowed direct observation of the ionosphere and permitted the first scientific study of its characteristics and variability and its effect on radio waves.

The excitement of Marconi's transatlantic demonstration inspired numerous private and commercial experiments to determine the ultimate capabilities of this newly discovered resource, the ionosphere. Among the most important early experiments were those conducted by radio amateurs who showed the value of the so-called high frequencies above 2 MHz for long distance propagation using the ionosphere.

The Importance of Ionospheric Research
Although our society has learned to use the properties of the ionosphere in many beneficial ways over the last century, there is still a great deal to learn about its physics, its chemical makeup and its dynamic response to solar influence. The upper portions of the ionosphere can be studied to some extent with satellites but the lower levels are below orbital altitudes while still too high to be studied using instruments carried by balloons or high flying aircraft. Much of the current theory is inferred by observing the ionosphere's effect on communication systems. In addition, some very useful information has been obtained using rockets (for example, from the Poker Flat Research Range near Fairbanks, AK). Active ionospheric research facilities, like HAARP, have provided detailed information that could not be obtained in any other way, about the dynamics and responses of the plasma making up the ionosphere. Incoherent Scatter Radars (ISRs), such as the one that will be built at the HAARP observatory, can study from the ground, small scale structures in the ionosphere to nearly the degree that an instrument in the layer could provide.
The ionosphere affects our modern society in many ways. International broadcasters such as the Voice of America (VOA) and the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) still use the ionosphere to reflect radio signals back toward the Earth so that their entertainment and information programs can be heard around the world. The ionosphere provides long range capabilities for commercial ship-to-shore communications, for trans-oceanic aircraft links, and for military communication and surveillance systems. The sun has a dominant effect on the ionosphere and solar events such as flares or coronal mass ejections can lead to worldwide communication "blackouts" on the short wave bands. We have created an Example Page with data from a communications blackout that occurred on August 3, 1997 showing how the instruments at the HAARP observatory can be used to study the underlying physics of these telecommunication disruptions.

Signals transmitted to and from satellites for communication and navigation purposes must pass through the ionosphere. Ionospheric irregularities, most common at equatorial latitudes (although they can occur anywhere), can have a major impact on system performance and reliability, and commercial satellite designers need to account for their effects.

In the Auroral latitudes, the ionosphere carries a current that may reach magnitudes up to or beyond a million amperes. This current, which is called the auroral electrojet, can change in dramatic ways under solar influence, and, when it does, currents can be induced in long terrestrial conductors like power lines and pipe lines. While such effects found in nature cannot be reproduced by active ionospheric research, the sensitive instruments at observatories like HAARP can follow the progress of natural magnetic storms and provide insight into the physical mechanisms at work in the ionosphere.

To varying degrees, the ionosphere is a plasma, the most common form of matter in the universe, often called the fourth state of matter. Plasmas do not exist naturally on the Earth's surface, and they are difficult to contain for laboratory study. Many current active ionospheric research programs are efforts to improve our understanding of this type of matter by studying the ionosphere, the closest naturally occurring plasma.

Recently, it has become possible to produce computer simulations of ionospheric processes. The development of computer visualizations have allowed us to see and appreciate the enormous variability and turbulence that occurs in the ionosphere during a major solar geomagnetic storm and the resultant effects that can impact radio communication and navigation systems.

Active ionospheric research facilities like HAARP attempt to produce small temporary changes in a limited region directly over the facility which, in no way, compare to the worldwide events frequently caused by the sun. But the extraordinary suite of sensitive observational instruments installed at observatories like HAARP permit a detailed and comprehensive correlation with the induced effects, resulting in new insights into the ways the ionosphere responds to a much wider variety of natural conditions.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

www.haarp.alaska.edu...

reply to post by Naptown317

The physics of the antenna system does not allow it to transmit ELF waves. It would take a lot more than "slipping" something in to allow it. It would involve totally different equipment. For example; the Russian ELF transmitter (used for submarine communications) on the Kola peninsula had "antennas" which were 60km long. But even if HAARP could transmit ELF radiation, there is no way for it to produce earthquakes.

As for other "upgrades". Yes, the scientists and students who work at HAARP fiddle with software continually. That's the whole purpose of the facility, research. Those are the same scientists who publish papers and students who write their theses about it. They aren't military. The work they do isn't secret. They know the equipment, they might just notice a "red button" that says "do not push" on it.

Here is the Swedish government's description of what HAARP is and comments on what HAARP has the purpose and function. what do think about their declaration on HAARP?

Motion 1997/98: U416 Investigation of U.S. space exploration
MORE INFORMATION
Consideration of 1997/98: U416
No attachments.
Motion to Parliament
1997/98: U416
Eva Goes and Ragnhild Pohanka (mp)
Investigation of U.S. space exploration
HAARP - High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program - or the continuation of Star Wars
Space exploration

Exploration of and world domination in space was intensified after World War II. Rockets, sputniks mm competed for space and the two superpowers competed over who would be first. Presidents have come and gone, and all have been fascinated by space and the technology associated with this exploration. President Carter approved the SPS, the Solar Powered Satellite Project, but it was rejected by Congress because it was too expensive. Then came President Reagan to power and the project appeared in another form and was suddenly a weapons project. The budget was increased and the project was moved to the Defense Ministry under the name Star Wars.

The grave is that there has always been a strong link between civilian and military research in the United States. Under the guise of being a weather satellite or solprojekt hiding the development of Star Wars and its successors.

A civil projects mixed with the military as abbreviated called HAARP has recently attracted attention. It is the continuation of Star Wars and the project includes a laser.
HAARP - High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program

It would be naive to believe that HAARP is an isolated experiment which will not be developed further. It is linked to a 50 years old, intense and hugely destructive programs to understand and control the upper atmosphere. The experiments in the ionosphere, which lies between 48 km and 50 000 km above the earth!

It would be premature to not think that HAARP has something with the space laboratory construction, which separately planned by the United States, to make HAARP is an integral part of a long chain of space research and development of deliberate military nature.

The military consequences of the combination of the two projects - civil and military - is alarming. The basis for this project is control of communications, both disruption and reliability in hostile environments. The control of such instruments is obviously a concentration of power.

The ability of the HAARP, the space and rocket combination to send an extremely large amount of energy comparable to a nuclear bomb, anywhere on earth via laser and particle beams, are frightening. The project must be "sold in" to the public as a space shield against (hostile) incoming weapons, or more conventionally, an apparatus for repairing the ozone layer.

In the chain that HAARP is part of, are CRM Chemical Release Modules, which produces artificial clouds. 1980 had a project called "Project Waterhole". 1983 dropped to the chemicals in the ionosphere, causing the aurora borealis. 1991 appeared to be such an aurora borealis over Texas, and the sky looked like a Christmas tree (Christmas colors).

The experiments under way in silence in America can not be isolated from the rest of the world. We keep ourselves on earth, but what can we become vulnerable to the ionosphere, 48-50000 km above our heads?

We believe that the U.S. experiment in the ionosphere and above our heads should be evaluated by an international forum. The concern in the highest degree all that is on this earth.
Requests

With reference to the foregoing DEPORTATION

that the parliament as his opinion, the government announced what the motion stated that Sweden at the international level shall request an investigation of the HAARP project, etc.

Stockholm October 6, 1997


Eva Goes (mp)


Ragnhild Pohanka (mp)

Gotab, Stockholm 2002
link 2 source

reply to post by stavis

Well at least it doesn't claim that HAARP can cause earthquakes or control the weather.

reply to post by Phage


That makes sense, although earthquakes, and ELF waves aside, by your statement HAARP can be upgraded to do other things. What those are/is is still TBD.

HAARP or not, the scary thing is, what if they do something that THEY CANNOT CONTROL and stop?

That's the scary bit of humanity.


Remember the new Time Machine remake? Moon in half?

reply to post by stavis


I found this to be very interesting indeed!

The ability of the HAARP, the space and rocket combination to send an extremely large amount of energy comparable to a nuclear bomb, anywhere on earth via laser and particle beams, are frightening. The project must be "sold in" to the public as a space shield against (hostile) incoming weapons, or more conventionally, an apparatus for repairing the ozone layer.

Perhaps HAARP is just one part of the 'space weapon system' ?

And, can 'laser and particle beams' theoretically bring down buildings and cause Earthquakes?

We responders just had our FEMA drill....we searched through rumble for victims...and now we're done. It was a lot of fun

reply to post by Chevalerous


I'm more curious as to how HAARP is suppose to repair the ozone layer!

Is there anything it can't do?????