Non believers, I have a simple non offensive question

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


I agree that what you suggest is a total possibility. The thing is though that this particular mass delusion was caught on camera. The people who have looked at the film are of the belief that whatever it is, actually came through the lens onto the film. i.e whatever is in the footage is not special effects added in later.

As I said before, I am not asking anyone to believe in God or anything, but if the events in the video are not to be taken on face value, I would love to hear a rational scientific explanation for them.

I am very open minded and will not judge anyone for their opinions, so please feel free to share

Originally posted by markosity1973
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

I agree that what you suggest is a total possibility. The thing is though that this particular mass delusion was caught on camera. The people who have looked at the film are of the belief that whatever it is, actually came through the lens onto the film. i.e whatever is in the footage is not special effects added in later.

As I said before, I am not asking anyone to believe in God or anything, but if the events in the video are not to be taken on face value, I would love to hear a rational scientific explanation for them.

I am very open minded and will not judge anyone for their opinions, so please feel free to share

Cameras can have delusions too.

reply to post by markosity1973


Holographic projection possibility?

I'd suggest the same in regards to the Phoenix Lights although i don't discount the possibility that they could be human-controlled vehicles, unmanned vehicles or even life from elsewhere.

Certainly, if i saw an apparition, i wouldn't assume it was the Virgin Mary, and i definetly wouldn't assume Christianity is therefore truthful and divine.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by markosity1973

 

Certainly, if i saw an apparition, i wouldn't assume it was the Virgin Mary, and i definetly wouldn't assume Christianity is therefore truthful and divine.

Of course you wouldn't. Faith is a gift of God Paul says in Romans.

None of us searched for Christ or came to know Him by our own efforts or desires.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Yay, you're finally admitting that your view is that we're all puppets on strings that don't really have a point to living because we're all merely manipulated by the machinations of the all-powerful puppet master.

*cue cognitive dissonance*

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


LOL, I'm agreeing with Awake and you're still pissy.

I meant exactly what I said...

faith is a gift of God.

No one wakes up one day and says: "Hey, I think I'll got to church and meet Jesus today!!!"

Yay, you're finally admitting that your view is that we're all puppets on strings that don't really have a point to living because we're all merely manipulated by the machinations of the all-powerful puppet master.

I'll see your absurd straw man, and raise you an appeal to ridicule.

Yeah, you're right, what a convincing argument. What's the alternative? Oh yeah, that's right, we're all the product of a bunch of hot rocks that were rained on after a cosmic accident and when my pointless life is over with I get to be fertilizer.

The question of life after death is in itself a flawed ideology. It cannot be answered with any certainty at all. What bothers me most is that most people think some semblance of "self" actually lingers after the physical death of the body and mind. The problem lies in the fact that there is no "self" to begin with. The emotion, name, and environment creates an illusion of being and the attachment of it propagates the notion of this "self" being a constant attribute.

Consider memory loss, multiple personality disorders, and Alzheimer sufferers who not only cannot identify with themselves , but also their surroundings. This clues us in on the fact that a person's "soul" or "spirit" is a charade laying in a brittle facade. Following this line of thinking, I believe that even is some semblance of out animation concludes after physical death it would bear little to no attributes of the being that has become deceased.

To me the best course of action if one chooses to believe in life after death or not is to lead a good life defined on compassion and preventing the suffering of others as well as yourself. As history shows, the more we try to grasp at the unthinkable and unknowable - the more ignorant we become of the life we live now.

reply to post by IamBoon

It cannot be answered with any certainty at all.

By you, perhaps not.

You don't speak for all of us.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

LOL, I'm agreeing with Awake and you're still pissy.

Save your straw men for someone who will bite on them. I meant exactly what I said...

faith is a gift of God.

No one wakes up one day and says: "Hey, I think I'll got to church and meet Jesus today!!!"

Yay, you're finally admitting that your view is that we're all puppets on strings that don't really have a point to living because we're all merely manipulated by the machinations of the all-powerful puppet master.

Yeah, you're right, what a convincing argument. What's the alternative? Oh yeah, that's right, we're all the product of a bunch of hot rocks that were rained on after a cosmic accident and when my pointless life is over with I get to be fertilizer.

edit on 4-6-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Your understanding of the basis of evolution is very limited if you think that "rain pouring on hot rocks" brought about life. While we may not know what started life here, I believe we will find out life exists in many places before it sprang up here. The way the universe works and its many secrets may elude us forever, but slipping in the notion that "God/Fairies/unicorns/ or whatever did it" answers nothing and takes us in a fundamentally delusional and flawed path of understanding the processes that are actually taking place. And if you think that your life is pointless without your belief system then I feel sorry for you to the utmost degree.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by IamBoon

 

It cannot be answered with any certainty at all.

By you, perhaps not.

You don't speak for all of us.

You may believe you are certain but it is all hearsay and conjecture. If there was a certainty passed teh delusions and dogmas of religious thought then the topic of "What happens after death?" would be as stupid as asking "what is the purpose of breathing?".

And the closed-minded thinking you inherited from your beliefs shows in how limited and laughable your reply is to my statement. I am not claiming to speak for all of you... where did I say that? I didn't, however you believe you know so where is your proof? A loathsome and Tardy deity? A menacing and merciless world and universe? A book that was once the foundation of a cult? PLease, what certainty do you possess that cannot be considered a figment of imagination or delusional in every aspect?

reply to post by IamBoon

You may believe you are certain but it is all hearsay and conjecture.

So is your belief that I am not certain.

Nothing more than your conjecture.

And since you just asserted it without any rational reason behind it it's also arbitrary.

Your prejudicial arbitrary conjecture.

reply to post by IamBoon

While we may not know what started life here, I believe we will find out life exists in many places before it sprang up here.

Wait, you "believe" we will find that life existed elsewhere before here??

Why do I need your particular religion? I hate religion.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by IamBoon

 

You may believe you are certain but it is all hearsay and conjecture.

So is your belief that I am not certain.

Nothing more than your conjecture.

And since you just asserted it without any rational reason behind it it's also arbitrary.

Your prejudicial arbitrary conjecture.

Where did I say that I do not think you believe you are certain? I didn't... learn to read and put out good argument taht are not fallacious please. I said what you believe is hearsay and conjecture because it is a belief system that claims total certainty with no proof of validity. How am I wrong in that statement? That is why you call it "blind faith". I know and see where you are coming from , but you refuse to even meention any point or try to refute any point I have made by stating things I have not even said. And you accuse others of using fallacy after fallacy.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by IamBoon

 

While we may not know what started life here, I believe we will find out life exists in many places before it sprang up here.

Wait, you "believe" we will find that life existed elsewhere before here??

Why do I need your particular religion? I hate religion.

Because the proof is starting to mount up, the recent discovery of possible microbial life o Mars is a start. And still you offer no argument to my original post about the non-existential reality of self. I have no "religion" in taht sense. However if you consider what I believe a religion you have no choice but to adhere to it bacause it is the very nature of humans to inquire about reality and understand it. Look at the wonder forums and language my religion has given you. The computer you type on and such. I am not bashing you personally with my statements.. you take a defensive stance with no solid rebuttals or discussions which means you feel trumped and backed into a corner. So I will stop talking to the sheep that cannot think beyond his pen.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I'm sorry, but how is it a straw man? If faith is given by your deity and I can in no way gain it of my own accord then how is it that I have a free will? If your deity can harden my heart to prevent me from believing, how is it that I have free will?

You are appealing to ridicule and calling my position a straw man when I'm accurately describing your position. You're a victim of great cognitive dissonance if you truly believe in free will after claiming that we don't get to choose whether or not we have faith when faith in your deity is instrumental in our ultimate destiny.

Thus we're puppets.

Now, if you can actually describe how this is a straw man and not representative of the logical conclusions of your position, I'll listen to it. But to appeal to ridicule without actually showing that I'm tossing out and then mutilating a straw man is to go beyond fallacy to dishonesty.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I meant exactly what I said...

faith is a gift of God.

It just so happens your particular faith is a gift from Emperor Constantine as he declared it the religion of the empire.

Faith is not a gift from God, it's a proposal by man.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I meant exactly what I said...

faith is a gift of God.

It just so happens your particular faith is a gift from Emperor Constantine as he declared it the religion of the empire.

You're 100% wrong.

Constantine only legalized Christianity, his 2nd successor made it the state-religion of the Empire.

Don't get your history lessons from Dan Brown or evilbible.org.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


LOL

100% wrong?

So what was the cause for the SPREAD of the Christian faith; was it "GOD's will" or was it because the Roman Empire declared it as a state "religion" or "faith"?

Btw, putting laughing smiley faces on your posts don't make your arguments more convincing, or make mine look less.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

"What's the alternative? Oh yeah, that's right, we're all the product of a bunch of hot rocks that were rained on after a cosmic accident and when my pointless life is over with I get to be fertilizer."

Yeah, you're right Madness, you convinced me.

Gooooooooooo Darwin!!!!

*drinksKool-Aidgulpgulp*

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

LOL

100% wrong?

So what was the cause for the SPREAD of the Christian faith; was it "GOD's will" or was it because the Roman Empire declared it as a state "religion" or "faith"?

I already stated it, but what the hell maybe it was not slow enough.

Constantine...did....not....make....Christianity....the....state.....religion....of....the....Empire....as...you
....erroneously......claimed.


He....(Constantine)......only....legalized.....it....(Christianity).


His....(Constantine's).....2nd......successor.....was....the.....man.....to......make.....Christianity......the......state.......religion.........of.. ........the..........empire.

Btw, putting laughing smiley faces on your posts don't make your arguments more convincing, or make mine look less.

You're right there! Your piss-poor understanding of history makes your arguments look less convincing.

Dan Brown is found in the "fiction" section of Barnes and Noble.