Joplin Missouri Hammered Hard by tornadoes!

reply to post by paxnatus


What conversation? We had a conversation?? OMG

reply to post by Xcathdra


I do think I explained why she was denied did I not?? By the way Dusquene is spelled Duquesne and yes its east of Joplin............Just drive two blocks past Home Depot on 20th street and your in Dusquene....I mean Duquesne.......

Originally posted by Cloudsinthesky
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

With due respect……..You are completely incorrect.

uhm... ok

WHY? What a waste of resources………….

I cant belive emergency managment didnt bother to run all the info by you first before making a decision. I remind you, and the others, that its always easier to criticise an action after the fact. If you dont like the manner something was done, then I respectfully suggest you do something to change it, or apply for a job that places you into that particular chain of command.

Absent that, I respect your opinion, but its just that, and is based on partial information.

So in this case I will use oyour own words -

With due respect……..You are completely incorrect.

Saturday morning a liaison officer had to come out to the family’s home gather pictures and dental records. He did not take DNA at this time.

Late Saturday evening he notified the family that he had a possible lead. Sunday morning he called the family and notified them of their loss……….

Without the help of D’MORT, (which was confirmed by the officer) the Liaison was able to positively identify the lost member in the morgue within 24hours.

uhmm ok.

By your comments in your post it sounds like you work for an agency or have close contact to certain departments………..

If there is anything you need or anything I can do please let me know..

The problem is if you’re not a family member or someone assisting to help those who have lost a loved one you would NOT KNOW THIS INFORMATION and that D’MORT is unwilling to assist in providing previously collected information to the State Highway Patrol.

Because there are laws in place that dictate how private information like this is distributed. Just because a person states they are family does not make it so, and it becomes a bit more complex when next of kin is a cousing / distant relative etc. In addition to that, there are very real possibilities of fraud cases, which can do even more damage if a person who is reported dead has their identity / assistance stolen.

I was listening to the radio this AM driving to work as they praised the Federal Government and State for their efforts in identifying the bodies……….Unless you have a missing family member and you have been dealing with D’MORT and the State Highway Patrol you would have the same opinion as the radio broadcasters.

What part of making sure identification is exact are you not understanding? While I respect all that you have been through, you are viewing this through goggles and you are not seeing the big picture. While familes want their loved ones returned, there is a prcoess in place, and its in place for a very good reason. If you dont agree with that process, thats fine, and is completely your right to have that opinion.

I am not trying to be an ass, but, respectfully, you are seeing this disaster through your eyes, which are affected by the events, making it somewhat personal. When it becomes personal, reason and understanding are sometimes ignored, giving way to raw emotions that demand answers while ignoring explanations that arent what you are wanting.

Unfortunately that is not the case……………….

As I stated in an earlier post……….I want to make sure Joplin gets off to a running start on the rebuilding process………..The reports we are seeing out of Tuscaloosa Alabama bring a grim reality to our threshold…………

Joplin will recover faster and better than Tuscaloosa for the simple fact they have half the population. Missouri has a larger population as a whole, in addition to haveing a more diverse economy which is more readily able to adapt to adverse situations.


[qoute]
I believe you live in Joplin………I would be glad to meet with you.

Yes I live in Joplin. Not sure where I have come under suspicion of not living in Joplin. To those who think I dont, let me go ahead and get a care check on aisle 2.

I can only present the information as I witnessed it…….

Which is incomplete and biased. Again, no disrespect intended, but the picture lucks much different when you have information coming in from different sources that places the picture into perspective, as well as experience in this area.

My nurse was the family member leading the charge in the family’s quest to get information from D’MORT……………..She is PISSED!! …….As well as I!!

and as a nurse, she should know better and should have a good understanding of how the law works in this area. She should brush up on HIPAA as well as -
RSMo - Chapter 193 - Vital Statistic Reporting
RSMo 43.010 - State Highway Patrol and Coroner / Medical Examiner process for reporting deaths
RSMo Chapter 58 - Duties of Coroner - Most people dont realize a Coroner is a law enforcement offical with powers of arrest and is the only position that has the authority to arrest a sheriff.
RSMo 58.451 - Ttypes of deaths that is in the jurisdiction of the Coroner

just to point a few criterias, and this is just at the local and state level.

If you work for an agency or have information that can answer the big question of “WHY”……Then we would be glad to sit down with you……..

I do not and will not officaly speak for an agency I do not work for. I know its not the answer you want, but if Idid that I could get in trouble and have my POST license yanked.

Thanks for your response and I hope to hear from you…………..

edit on 31-5-2011 by Cloudsinthesky because: (no reason given)

I will try to help out anywhere I can, but when dealing with a mess of this size, with this many agencies involved, coupled with 3+ layers of local state and federal government, there is only so much I can say. Having people report on information from multiple agencies can cause more confusion as well as pain, suffering and anguish if the information is wrong. Also, even as a police officer, we cannot call a time of death, nor can we determine cause of death.

If a person shoots themselves in the head, a suicide note is present, there is video of the suicide showing it was in fact a suicide, we still cannot determine a cause of death.

There is a reason why emergency services do not allow all agencies involved to disribute info. Certain agenecies are responsible for certain aspects, and as such wont always have all of the information. Also, just because an EF-5 tornado does not always mean a person death was caused by that. If a person is killed because of compromised construction (required building codes are not used or hidden) there is a very real possibility of not only a civil suit, but criminal charges as well.

If I sound or came across like an ass I appologize, as its not my intentions at all so I appologize if that is the case. Just trying to point out that just because something appears to be straightforward, does not mean it actually is.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I have met clouds and from personal experience he is very clean cut, highly intelligent and from what we have discovered about him from this thread he is above competent and was willing to meet with both you and mercenary, not sure that ever happened or why it would not have, if and when I go to Joplin I will give a heads up and at least plan to meet for coffee.

When in doubt check em out. Especially if you are in the same area, and especially if you belong to the same group such as ATS...

We REALLY are a much tighter community than you would ever guess...

One thing I have observed which raises red flags for me on both you and mercenary, *Not being disrespectful ok*
Is that I have witnessed all the other residents of Joplin and being an emotional, non logical, intuitive type person, have been on a clear cut roller coaster of feelings associated with each of their posts. For you guys, I just do not feel it. Why? I realize others here have said things that may or may not be true and could have influenced my opinions, but that aside, come clean here and tell the real truth of who you guys are and what you truly represent. Honesty is such a valuable commodity on this forum and no matter what your personal truths may be you will be rewarded by it and doors will open for you because people here know somehow when you are not revealing all you have to share.

Did that make sense?

I also want to thank you for all of your hard work and for bringing what you could for all of the silent supporters of this thread.

reply to post by Xcathdra

Because there are laws in place that dictate how private information like this is distributed. Just because a person states they are family does not make it so, and it becomes a bit more complex when next of kin is a cousing / distant relative etc. In addition to that, there are very real possibilities of fraud cases, which can do even more damage if a person who is reported dead has their identity / assistance stolen.

This is a very good point. In my position, I have subpoena power for records. Even with that power, it is often difficult to ascertain who the legal representative or next of kin would be. If there is no spouse or parent, then it becomes unclear, and we have to wait for some type of legal document.

Now, if the person is not confirmed dead, then the court cannot appoint a legal representative or next of kin, if the court cannot appoint such a representative, then no one can confirm they are dead? A vicious circle!

I think you have illustrated a very good point, and one that needs some tweaking of the legislation. In areas of a declared disaster, local, state, and federal agencies should have broader powers for seeking and releasing information, to expedite the identification and avoid the red tape.

reply to post by Xcathdra

Joplin will recover faster and better than Tuscaloosa for the simple fact they have half the population. Missouri has a larger population as a whole, in addition to haveing a more diverse economy which is more readily able to adapt to adverse situations.

I think you are wrong about this. Joplin does not have a diverse economy. It was built as a mining town, and then the mining dried up. It persevered as a farm town, but now the super-farmers are taking the majority of that business. It had a decent tourism industry as a stop on Route 66, but those days are over. It is still a significant stop along I-44, but most of the businesses along I-44 were recently wiped out!

Joplin has very little manufacturing business, a very low income and education level, and a huge Meth problem! Jasper county is the worst county in the country for Meth production!

I have a hard time believing that Joplin will rebuild. The population growth is below the national average, and the population is aging faster than the national average. In other words, the old people are not moving away, but the young people are!

A few years ago, a tornado wiped out nearby Picher, OK and it did not rebuild. It is officially a ghost town now.

Joplin might still be a few decades away from ghost town, but it is not going to recover to pre-tornado status either.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Your point is taken……….

But the problem is that you’re working in the system looking out. I am a stakeholder working a view point outside the system looking in.

You can’t see the problems with the system because you are in the system. What part? I don’t know……But you present yourself here to the ATS community as “knowing” how each part of the system works together and its processes relating to the disaster here in Joplin.

I do not and will not officaly speak for an agency I do not work for. I know its not the answer you want, but if Idid that I could get in trouble and have my POST license yanked.

You say you will not speak for all the agencies involved in the process of this disaster…………But you tell the ATS community that the process is working......

but the picture lucks much different when you have information coming in from different sources that places the picture into perspective, as well as experience in this area

but if Idid that I could get in trouble and have my POST license yanked.

But you can’t tell us how it works because you may get your POST licensed yanked?

Stating that I am looking at the systems processes with goggles on or posting Missouri Statutes is not presenting information that defends the actions taken by the system.

She should brush up on HIPAA as well as

HIPPA is always the Government’s stance when defending an action or when a need arises to change a law concerning privacy issues. But that’s another debate……….

Everything I posted is factual and I highly doubt it’s a single case issue after seeing the frustration on the other 30 family members that attended the Governors meeting last Friday evening.

I would be glad to meet you in person so I could grasp a better understanding since I am wearing goggles as you say.....

reply to post by getreadyalready


Years ago this was already done in private, passed by the Senate and the House, cant tell you where to find it but in case of a major National disaster or even virus...

They can actually take control and seize entire neighborhoods I believe it was on a State level.

It is drawn up already this I do know for fact, just cant show you proof.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I do get emotional... however when i relay info do my best to leave emotions
out of it. that comes from years of doing reports where we are not suppose to place emotion or personal
opinions in. As far as this goes what are u wanting me to do.. I have told people
To take their innapropriate comments elsewhere.

Of all the people on these forums to question my intentions and background
You are the last person I thought would jump on the bandwagon. Even more so because of
Our previous private message exchanges on other topics.

As a side note please don't ever insinuate i dont care or lack emotion. It's one of the most assinine comments
I have ever seen you make.

reply to post by Cloudsinthesky


Yes you see what you want. Proof of this is in the fact.that i stated i would never
Officially speak for an agency. In these forums I relay.info.i have
In a way where info gets out while not beong specific enougj to cause problems.

But hey since my validity and where i live is being questioned ill stop
Posting info i get and this will be my last post on this thread.

Feel free to use your official sources...

reply to post by Xcathdra


Please re-read my two posts. I didn't say anything about your emotions. I gave you credit for pointing out how the hands of the authorities are tied when it comes to releasing records and HIPPA. The only thing I disagreed about was whether or not Joplin would rebuild faster than Tuscaloosa.

I think you might have gotten my response and Antar's response mixed up.

reply to post by Xcathdra

But hey since my validity and where i live is being questioned ill stop
Posting info i get and this will be my last post on this thread

You have validated my concerns.

Feel free to use your official sources...

My official sources are the many citizens and businesses of Joplin that I deal with on a daily basis. The other stakeholders (government contractors) I attend meetings with as we develop resources and identify those needs for those in Joplin.

I report what I see and witness first hand. I don’t speculate on the issues that I raise attention to here with the ATS community…..

You’re not the first to tuck tail and run when confronted to “meet” and I am sure you will not be the last………This time I take it personal………its my town where I live…….

On other notes here from Joplin………

I did attend a phone conference with FEMA and other stakeholders concerning housing.

Yes…..they will be bringing manufactured housing to be placed on the present slabs for those in need………..

I will provide more information as I get it on these manufactured homes………

Originally posted by Xcathdra

I do not and will not officaly speak for an agency I do not work for. I know its not the answer you want, but if Idid that I could get in trouble and have my POST license yanked.

It sure seems your speaking for FEMA, and other governmental agnecies.

I will try to help out anywhere I can, but when dealing with a mess of this size, with this many agencies involved, coupled with 3+ layers of local state and federal government, there is only so much I can say.

Again, if you cant speak for FEMA, then dont. Thats pretty simple.

Have you ever processed a FEMA claim? If you do not work for FEMA, the answer is no.
Then, how is it you claim you cant speak for FEMA since you dont work for FEMA but your speaking
out in defense of FEMA?

Originally posted by antar
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

Years ago this was already done in private, passed by the Senate and the House, cant tell you where to find it but in case of a major National disaster or even virus...

They can actually take control and seize entire neighborhoods I believe it was on a State level.

It is drawn up already this I do know for fact, just cant show you proof.

I would sure love to know who starred this post as I was accidentally privileged this info and although I once had it in possession it somehow dissapeared many years ago...

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Please re-read my two posts. I didn't say anything about your emotions. I gave you credit for pointing out how the hands of the authorities are tied when it comes to releasing records and HIPPA. The only thing I disagreed about was whether or not Joplin would rebuild faster than Tuscaloosa.

I think you might have gotten my response and Antar's response mixed up.

edit on 3-6-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)

My bad - I got you and Antar mixed up. My appologies.

reply to post by Cloudsinthesky


I coulkd honestly care less about your concerns now. I have offered info as well as assistance, and you ahve done nothing but become more and more paranoid based on your singular view of what is going on. Ive been accused of being part of the system and only seeing it from that side - thats a 2 way street their boss, so when you point your finger at me, you have 4 more pointing back at you.

When you get information you dont like, or if it does not make sense to you, you ignore it. Without that "useless info" the picture you paint is incorrect. As I have stated a few posts back, the info you ignore is completely relevant to the questions you ask and the answers you seek. The key is to drop the parnoid BS (quit listening to burntheships as well since she seems to be running that bandwagon for her own ignorant agenda) and look at ALL of the information present.

You think it is a straightforward process, and its anything but that. The Nurse you referenced who was pissed about the lack of information supports my argument about how people see what they want. As a nurse, she should know better and should understand why some of the issues are present and the reasons behind it.

The fact, according to your relay of her response, that she is upset leads to 1 possible conclusion.is either ignoring, or has no concept, of the morgue process in mass disaster, federal laws concerning next of kin notification, local state and federal standards of identification, cause of death, forensic review etc.

Are you sure she is a nurse?

If she is, then again, you guys are viewing this incident in the same manner you accuse me of viewing it.

You guys are letting your personal feelings interfere with logic in this incident. The fact the RN is behaving in the manner you talked about verifies this view.

You want what you want, and you want it the moment you demand it, and when you are refused, you assume its because of some inefficieny, or conspiracy, or bad leadership, or incompetence. From your posts, you come across as a perfectionist, as well as exceedingly arrogant by correcting people from areas you know nothing about.

I make that accusation by your correction of my spelling on the city of Duquesne. You completely ignored the intent of my post, which was to point out they took damage also, and latched onto the mispelling of it.

Maybe next time you wont be so concerned about the misspelling of a city, and will be more concerned about things that are beyond your tunnel vision.

You arent the only person affected, contrary to your own perception.

As far as accusing me of tucking tail and running when it comes to meeting... What exactly, are you smoking? I know you on the forums. We arent friends, we dont hang out, and based on the accusations you are leveling at me, why would I take the time to meet you? You have shown no intrest in seeing anything beyond your own story. You wanted to meet me so you could get answers to your "why" questions.

My response to you was I wont officaly speak on behalf of another agency. Your response to that post was to make accusations against me that were not true, and then question the info I provide.

Again, why would I waste my time meeting with a person who has their own mind made up about how things are operating down here? You feel you should be in charge because you dont think its running correctly. Thats your insane battle to fight, not mine, and I wont help you twist things out of context to attack departments or people who dont meet your expectations of how things should be done.

Anyways, good luck with whatever your doing. I hope you not only find the answers you demand, but you actually take the time to understand why you get the answers you get.

reply to post by burntheships


Its called understanding how something works. You should look it up and understand that concept. You have no idea how FEMA works, and your citation of Iranian news media is the icing on that cake.

You have no concept of what FEMA is.
You have no concept of how FEMA works.
You have no concept of what FEMA's authority is.
You have not concept of how FEMA is activated.
You have no concept of how FEMA operates when NO federal disaster is declared by the PResident.
You have no concept that FEMA is an umbrella agency representing over 15 Federal departments.
You have no concept of the fact FEMA during Katrina is NOT FEMA during Joplin, or any other disaster after the new head was named.

You lump it all together, and distort the issues when you do.

You claim FEMA is corrupt, citing articles out of Florida where FEMA is demanding people return money who were not qualified to receive it while ignoring the fact it was handed out in good faith. Again a clear demonstration of using only the facts that support your agenda while ignoring anyting that does not support your argument.

You complain FEMA is corrupt because they denied assistance to some counties in Pennsylvania because they were not declared federal disaster areas, while ignoring the fact FEMA told the counties they can appeal that decisions. So its ok for FEMA to hand out money to people who dont need it, then they are evil for asking for it back, and now they are evil because they denied assistance to a county who doesnt meet criteria for FEMA assistance.

To sum it up.. You hate FEMA for whatever your personal reason is. You have taken no time to understand how it works, what it does, how it operates, how its activated, let alone what it actually is and what it does.

So what we have is this:

You spouting off about FEMA, demonstrating that ignorance.
Me correcting you and explaining how FEMa works and then some.
You, again based on your ignorance about how FEMA works, assuming im defending FEMA, when in fact, I am correcting your misinformation about FEMA.

We clear now?

If so can you go back and troll your other I hate FEMA thread?

editby]edit on 4-6-2011 by Cloudsinthesky because: (no reason given)