Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
If you are so CERTAIN that they are in Reality Not FAKES , then the Burden of Proof is on YOU here to show me Otherwise Oh Great Karnac..........

edit on 21-5-2011 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)

that isn't how the burden of proof works, friend.

second

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
If you are so CERTAIN that they are in Reality Not FAKES , then the Burden of Proof is on YOU here to show me Otherwise Oh Great Karnac..........

edit on 21-5-2011 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)

that isn't how the burden of proof works, friend.

second

Then what do you Personally Believe concerning Obamas Real Idenity ? Is he what he says he is or not ? See my Point ? The House of Cards is Falling apart for this Man , The Truth about him will eventually be Reveiled , and it wiil Shock many who Supported him .

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit


Then what do you Personally Believe concerning Obamas Real Idenity ? Is he what he says he is or not ? See my Point ? The House of Cards is Falling apart for this Man , The Truth about him will eventually be Reveiled , and it wiil Shock many who Supported him .

What do I 'believe'? I believe that the entire 'birther' issue is perpetuated by DNC, who just LOVE the useful idiots carrying their disnfo torch, because as long as they can paint their detractors as crazy nutters by associating them with folks who make the argument you are making, then they can avoid any actual debate about the specifics of Obama's policies.

THAT's what I believe.

So social security numbers huh? Does the video or the interview provide like an actual legal document that confirms this social security mishap? That may sway me, at what point in the video is this presented?, ive got limited time here.

America, # yeeaaahh!!!!

Originally posted by NuroSlam
Doesnt matter if he was born here or not, he sucks either way

Pretty tough to come into a birther thread and say something like that and expect to have this taken seriously when most doubt seems to be that people just do not like him and want to smear him with anything. In short, you are not helping your cause.

Originally posted by wcitizen
No, actually. The burdern of proof is on both parties with regard to the statements they make - both defense and prosecution have to prove their claims.

I have evidence to support a claim that you spent some time on a "farm" in Washington State in 2003, getting very acquainted with handsome young philly. I also have evidence that you stole twenty five cents from my sock drawer. Now I hope you have evidence to prove you did not do those things.

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
In what way do you Surmise that ? Do you know me Personally ? Can you Read my Mind ? What Proof can you Present here that I am Blind ? The FACTS Speak for themselves concerning the Legitimacy of Obamas BC and Dubious SS Number . If you are so CERTAIN that they are in Reality Not FAKES , then the Burden of Proof is on YOU here to show me Otherwise Oh Great Karnac..........

edit on 21-5-2011 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)

I have never really seen anyone explain this SSN thing all the way through. I only seem them refer to Orly Taitz videos. You seem pretty upset that someone would suggest you have not done all the best research so you seem like the best person to ask. Can you?

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
If you are so CERTAIN that they are in Reality Not FAKES , then the Burden of Proof is on YOU here to show me Otherwise Oh Great Karnac..........

edit on 21-5-2011 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)

that isn't how the burden of proof works, friend.

second

Then what do you Personally Believe concerning Obamas Real Idenity ? Is he what he says he is or not ? See my Point ? The House of Cards is Falling apart for this Man , The Truth about him will eventually be Reveiled , and it wiil Shock many who Supported him .

In America, isn't it customary to prove your case when you accuse someone of a crime? Isn't there a presumption of innocent unless a crime can be proven? I am starting to worry that this birther thing is getting people to give up many of the ideas that made America so great. Presumption of innocence and being secure in your papers are things I liked about this place. What say you?

Originally posted by ontarff
Don't be foolish, you know that is not possible. They could be examined by a committee of well known document experts not paid by any special interest groups.

You want people to look at it for you and tell if they believe it is real? Is that what you are saying? I find it very hard to believe after reading all this, all the Republicans that are not questioning this, that birthers will be satisfied hearing from someone else that something is real. That is the whole movement now. You cannot trust anyone so you want proof. You know you personally seeing proof is irrational so you want someone else to look at it. That is a workout just wrapping your brain around. You want what has happened to happen again, just with different people? Any names handy?

Originally posted by DYepes
So social security numbers huh? Does the video or the interview provide like an actual legal document that confirms this social security mishap? That may sway me, at what point in the video is this presented?, ive got limited time here.

America, # yeeaaahh!!!!

I think I am caught up on this. Please, before anyone starts calling me some variation of Obama's name and a worshipper of some kind, I did not vote for him. He was not even on my top 10 list. I am not looking to prove he is a great president to anyone and I am not trying to defend him. I am actually interesting in the truth though. That is kind of why I am here. So that being said.

Here is what we have for proof. You tell me if this all meshes. We got Obama's SSN from Orly Taitz who got it from a man who committed fraud in order to get it. I cannot say whether or not she actually has his real SSN because all I have seen is a piece of paper that she got from an admitted criminal. This is the same lawyer who presented a fake Kenyan birth certificate in court. The birther movement just accepts that she has the real SSN because she says so. Even given all that. I have not seen anyone do any of their "expert" forensics work on her selective service form she waves in front of cameras yet.

At one point she claimed he had onver 39 SSNs and not he has one and her two investigators are uncovering...I got lost there. I am stuck on how anyone knows what Obama's SSN really is. I feel like, given the sources, I need a little more proof than some piece of paper anyone could make with photoshop.

Did I miss anything? The more I read the more this falls apart but I am not looking to be combative so anyone that wants to correct me with something factual that can be checked out are more than welcome.

But does it have any seals? what names are on it, and yes, where exactly is there a current legal document publicly accessible to non-institution individuals that has Obamas social security number? Private information, that if leaked, would no doubt be intentionally used by many identity thieves to setup as many false aliases as possible for whatever means dubiously plotted.

I want to see your legal documents with watermarks and stamped seals. He coughed up a couple of birth certificates, backed by the MILLIONS strong intelligence and law enforcement agencies of the United States of America. And you cant tell me every single one of those individuals is an "Obamabot waiting to be walked on by his Majesty's blessed holy feet of reverance and sanctity" .

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

What do I 'believe'? I believe that the entire 'birther' issue is perpetuated by DNC, who just LOVE the useful idiots carrying their disnfo torch, because as long as they can paint their detractors as crazy nutters by associating them with folks who make the argument you are making, then they can avoid any actual debate about the specifics of Obama's policies.

THAT's what I believe.

Yeah. Despite all the evidence accumulating that should raise alarm bells in you. Your fantasy that the DNC is perpetuating the birther issue is nonsense. Try examining the actual facts for a change.

Originally posted by aptness

Originally posted by wcitizen
No, actually. The burdern of proof is on both parties with regard to the statements they make - both defense and prosecution have to prove their claims.

You’re forgetting the presumption of innocence. And since Barack Obama isn’t legally required to disclose his birth certificate to the American people, the only burden at this point lays with the birthers.

And since they have never be able to prove a single allegation the burden will most likely never shift to the defense.

Absolutely not. And you're shifting the goal posts. The comment I made was not about Obama at all. Comprehension problem or something else>

Originally posted by micpsi

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

What do I 'believe'? I believe that the entire 'birther' issue is perpetuated by DNC, who just LOVE the useful idiots carrying their disnfo torch, because as long as they can paint their detractors as crazy nutters by associating them with folks who make the argument you are making, then they can avoid any actual debate about the specifics of Obama's policies.

THAT's what I believe.

Yeah. Despite all the evidence accumulating that should raise alarm bells in you. Your fantasy that the DNC is perpetuating the birther issue is nonsense. Try examining the actual facts for a change.

You mean 'the actual fact' that the rumor regarding Barry's citizenship was first floated by the Hillary Campaign in 08? As far as 'accumulated evidence', there is none. Youre fooling yourself with a distraction meant to make anyone with ACTUAL criticism of the Obama Administrations policies look crazy. That's why basically no one in the GOP believes it. Because they know its a rumor perpetuated by the DNC. You are carrying water for them, either intentionally, or ignorantly.

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by aptness

Originally posted by wcitizen
No, actually. The burdern of proof is on both parties with regard to the statements they make - both defense and prosecution have to prove their claims.

You’re forgetting the presumption of innocence. And since Barack Obama isn’t legally required to disclose his birth certificate to the American people, the only burden at this point lays with the birthers.

And since they have never be able to prove a single allegation the burden will most likely never shift to the defense.

Absolutely not. And you're shifting the goal posts. The comment I made was not about Obama at all. Comprehension problem or something else>

Ok now I am confused. I thought Obama was one of the two parties you referenced. Are you saying that your concept of the burden of proof being shared does not apply to Obama then?

Originally posted by coastalite
It is amazing just how blinded by political ideology the Husseiniacs can be when defending their comrades.

IMO, we've been sold out by not only the MSM but by all three branches of government as well: the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial. Somebody wake me from this nightmare.

THAT was the realization that finally woke me up 3-years ago!

Last week I had an older car pass me on the interstate, with an older white guy driving it. What got my attention was his bumper stickers. One was "Obama 2008", the other - adjacent to it, was a "2012" with the familiar colors. I was like, "Are you SERIOUS?!!" I was surprised he even had a bumper left.....