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Believers: Why is Atheism Irrational?

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posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


As bogomil has urged; you're making assumptions.

We've never declared ourselves as either materialist or existentialist.




posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by bogomil
 


I know exactly what you stand for. I read your posts.
You believe in objects. Them and us.
You and me.
This is not unity.
This is conflict, separation.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


Not sure why you have jumped in and declared yourself (we) the awake and aware/bogomil collective.
edit on 4-6-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by AQuestion
 


Why do we do anything though? Why love others, so they won't leave us?
Is there not a constant background anxiety attatched to this type of love? This love has an opposite, fear. However they both appear because one can not be had without the other.

Unconditional love, the universal love, consciousness already knows love, it is love.
There is no one who can give you this love, although we believe there is another half to us somewhere.
We may think we have found the other half to complete us but they disappoint us. They are not the one.

You are the one.
You are already complete.


Dear Itisnowagain,

Love others because they struggle to, because every sentient being matters and is worthy of love. It requires nothing back, if you love so that others will love you then you are not true to yourself, love and truth working together is the answer, not comfort or the lack of others deciding who they are. As for soul mates, you have to be completely you and willing to accept variation to know them when you meet them.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


As individuals we can try to love others, but true unconditional love does not need to try.
When the 'one' is known, it is known to be love itself.
There is nothing outside of love.

edit on 4-6-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by AQuestion
 


As individuals we can try to love others, but true unconditional love does not need to try.
When the 'one' is known, it is known to be love itself.
There is nothing outside of love.

edit on 4-6-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


Dear Itisnowagain,

I do not believe in unconditional love by conditional beings. I believe in love, acceptance and learning one another, that is where the fun begins, getting to know others is the joy and it means that there will be differences, I like women and they have differences even though they are of an almost identical essence. Be well.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


It is not the women that you enjoy, it is the feeling that you experience.
Each woman, each car, each object in your possession is not about the object, it is about what it gives you inside. Satisfaction? Fulfilment? Contentment?
Love, the sense of belonging, wholeness, completeness. Can this be 'got' from another?



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by AQuestion
 


It is not the women that you enjoy, it is the feeling that you experience.
Each woman, each car, each object in your possession is not about the object, it is about what it gives you inside. Satisfaction? Fulfilment? Contentment?
Love, the sense of belonging, wholeness, completeness. Can this be 'got' from another?


Dear Itisnowagain,

Nope, I like the surprise, I like the difference, I like that they constantly challenge me and my understanding. My soul mate confused me all the time and that is no easy trick, the unity with one who is different; but, similar and accepting is unlike anything else, a partner not a copy. We cannot experience true love if we only love ourselves and those that are the same as us, that is narcissism rather than love. In my opinion and not accusing you of such, just answering what I believe. Be well.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


What i am trying to convey is that you will only ever experience yourself, ultimately.
You like difference, the more 'things' change the more they stay the same.
The one who experiences the different 'things' is the 'one' who experiences the 'ten thousand things'.
That 'one' is the never changing presence that you are.
If you can find that 'one', you will know unconditional love for all that is.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 



...Can this be 'got' from another?



Love, the sense of belonging


Ask a group of friends or family?


wholeness, completeness.


Some couples state their marriage or love braught "wholeness" or "completeness" to their lives. "wholeness" and "completeness" could be seen as subjective. Different things making different people "whole".

Perhaps i'm misunderstanding the semantics of completeness or wholeness?


If you can find that 'one', you will know unconditional love for all that is.


Are you sure you're not talking about marriage?


In other words, what are you suggesting is that "one"?

Some people reason their "faith" because it makes them feel good.

An interesting comment from Bernard Shaw:-


The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
George Bernard Shaw

edit on 4/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


"Some people reason their "faith" because it makes them feel good."

If something works and life becomes easy and fulfilling, why not??
Strange that if something feels good people are critized for sharing.

Some people beat people cause it makes them feel good.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


Not sure why you have jumped in and declared yourself (we) the awake and aware/bogomil collective.
edit on 4-6-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


It's OK with me.

In any case the communication between A_a_a and me is based on the ability to COMMUNICATE across different positions, that's a kind of 'we'.

You should try it instead of preaching.
edit on 4-6-2011 by bogomil because: addition



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


If something works and life becomes easy and fulfilling, why not??
Strange that if something feels good people are critized for sharing.



The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
George Bernard Shaw


Some people beat people cause it makes them feel good.


Again, my point is that just because something "feels good" doesn't make it moral or "good" or beneficial to a civilisation:-

The fact that a [Bully]is happier than a [Pacifist]is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.

See the same applies to someone who "feels good" when beating people; just because it feels good, doesn't make it right.
edit on 4/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


"Some people reason their "faith" because it makes them feel good."

If something works and life becomes easy and fulfilling, why not??
Strange that if something feels good people are critized for sharing.

Some people beat people cause it makes them feel good.


'Sharing' which in a theist context on a public forum very often means pushing or preaching.

Semantic gymnastics are done at your own risk.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


So what does make it right?
Feel as bad as we can and make others feel bad too?

I said if it works.
A drunken man is deluded as much as any believer, i totally agree.

The end of suffering is not a belief.
And faith is not a belief.

edit on 4-6-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 07:23 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


You wrote:

["And faith is not a belief."]

Depends on what dictionary you rely on. Which is yours?



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by bogomil
 


Which is yours?
Define faith.
Define belief.

You show me yours and i will show you mine.


edit on 5-6-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


I don't have any 'faiths' I want to expand beyond my personal life, so whatever my personal incliniations or preferences are, they are of no public interest.

But just to give you something: I like the japanese goddess of mercy and compassion 'Kuan Yin' and have a statuette of her in my home. Though it's not something religious.

As to 'faith' and 'belief'.

A common defintion is, that 'faith' is a subset of 'belief', with faith requesting less evidence than belief. I use that one.



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 08:33 AM
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Define faith.
Define belief.


Many connotations of "faith". I often refer to the religious connotation of faith as "blind faith"


“'Faith' means not wanting to know what is true”
- Friedrich Nietzsche

DEFINITIONS:
============

1. Complete trust or confidence in someone or something


e.g. "I had faith my mother would show up", "I had faith in the NASA program"


2. Strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof


e.g "I have faith in a creator"


3. A system of religious belief


e.g "i have faith in Allah" "I have faith in Jesus"


4. A strongly held belief or theory


e.g. "Einstein had faith in his relativity theory"

2. and 3. have a very similar connotation, and you could argue 4 possibly.

4 Doesn't specify whether the theory is an irrational or rational theory.

I hope that simplifies the etymology of faith.
edit on 5/6/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 08:49 AM
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reply to post by bogomil
 


"Depends on what dictionary you rely on. Which is yours?"

This is the question you asked me so which dictionary do you rely on when you say a common definition is......
This definition being the one you use.



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