A personal Gun story you won't see on the news!!

reply to post by wasco2


Wow, so the pimp criminal has to be put to DEATH? At the hand of your firearm, for touching your car??? That makes no sense at all. Your life was not at danger, unless he put a knife at your throat or something. The poor guy could have been drunk or something, and you were one shot away from ending his life! Who gives you the power to take someone's life? Who gives you the power to attempt to take someone's life? It is not up to you, otherwise, you may be DEAD by someone else thinking JUST LIKE YOU, with their trigger happy fingers. ALL OF YOU that brandish firearms, will ONE DAY get what you ARE SEEKING.

just stop already, please, for the good of humanity. Stop thinking that everybody that is bigger than you, or darker than you, or fatter than you, or uglier than is BAD and OUT TO KILL YOU. Robbery does not equal death. Talking with someone, does not equal DEATH. Get over yourselves, stop be scared. Communicate with your fellow man.

reply to post by uSNUUZuLUUz


You obviously don't believe in the concept of self defense. Robbery means taking by force and therefore doing harm to another in the process of taking what is theirs.

You try to rob me and I will shoot you and in Florida I will be within my legal rights.

The victim is not responsible for the robber's family. She is not the one who made poor life choices and put them at risk. Most old people are on fixed incomes and limited means. Is it okay to rob the 80 yo woman and leave her to starve or depend on the charity of others?

You are very naive and have not thought your example through.

The right to defend your life and property goes back to the founding of our country. Though we have strayed from it in some places it still remains one of our basic inalienable rights. Your specific need does not give you the right to take what is theirs from others by force.

reply to post by uSNUUZuLUUz


how does the grandmother know the 20yo's intent though? who gets the benefit of the doubt in a robbery attempt? and you do realize one element of the crime of robbery is use or threat of force?

i see what you're saying but i don't think you can apply that kind of logic to a real time event, particularly to a robbery.

Originally posted by uSNUUZuLUUz
Question: Does Robbery equal DEATH?

Sometimes it does, it depends on who you’re dealing with doesn’t it? You should look out for your own safety and the safety of those around you first and foremost; fighting back might not always be the best option as far as that is concerned but not every robber is as reasonable as every other.

Does this man deserve to DIE at the hands of a personal firearm? Or does he need punishment, and learn that what he is doing is not right, and he shouldn't do this.

The "stealing to feed my family" nonsense doesn't wash with me. They're not the only ones with a hard life, but we're not all out clubbing old ladies for profit. Just because their life is crap, it doesn't give them the right to go out and ruin other people's.

Where does this punishment come from? "Excuse me sir, can you give me some personal details before you scarper with my wallet, so that I can report you to the peelers?" To say that the police have a poor track record with catching these scumbags is quite the understatement. You’re in a position to provide punishment as opposed to encouragement through handing over your belongings.

If you have an especially unwholesome robber on your hands then I’m not saying that he deserves to die necessarily, but he certainly deserves to be stopped. The dying part is incidental, if he dies in the process of being stopped then that’s just tough.

I don't see where this fits in with the OP though, which appears to be far more serious than robbery. He didn't slot them all to his credit; he didn't have to.

Originally posted by wasco2
reply to post by uSNUUZuLUUz

 

You obviously don't believe in the concept of self defense. Robbery means taking by force and therefore doing harm to another in the process of taking what is theirs.

You try to rob me and I will shoot you and in Florida I will be within my legal rights.

The victim is not responsible for the robber's family. She is not the one who made poor life choices and put them at risk. Most old people are on fixed incomes and limited means. Is it okay to rob the 80 yo woman and leave her to starve or depend on the charity of others?

You are very naive and have not thought your example through.

The right to defend your life and property goes back to the founding of our country. Though we have strayed from it in some places it still remains one of our basic inalienable rights. Your specific need does not give you the right to take what is theirs from others by force.

SELF - DEFENSE is ok, i agree, but not with DEADLY FORCE. Did you know that old lady could go to jail for killing that man. It happens all the time. Yes you can defend yourself, but not with deadly force. Wielding a gun, is deadly force. Give GRANDMA A TASER, or MASE.

reply to post by uSNUUZuLUUz


I get it, you have chosen to be a helpless victim and place all your faith in overworked underpaid authorities. Florida recognizes a right to defend life and property. The Florida law was in response to an epidemic of carjackings and an increasing number of carjackers who would shoot first rather than demand the car. And cool it with the hyperbole, I didn't shoot anyone or even threaten anyone, though that was coming next. He knew what he was doing was wrong and the sight of the gun merely convinced him to stop his criminal action. You may be ok with going to an unknown location with a known criminal against your will but I was not.

Enjoy your victim status but remember the courts have held the police have no duty to defend an individual citizen. Also remember "when seconds count the police are minutes away".

Originally posted by SecretGoldfish
reply to post by uSNUUZuLUUz

 

how does the grandmother know the 20yo's intent though? who gets the benefit of the doubt in a robbery attempt? and you do realize one element of the crime of robbery is use or threat of force?

i see what you're saying but i don't think you can apply that kind of logic to a real time event, particularly to a robbery.

No one is saying that Robbery is ok. She can call the cops during the robbery or after she has been robbed. Or if someone is nearby they can call the authorities. And what if Grandma was senile, she is packing heat, and some guy just came up to help her cross the street, but in HER mind, this young punk was tyring to ROB her, and BANG, she shoots the good guy, and he lies dead on the street. All due to her old senile ways. and that's WHAT YOU WANT????

Originally posted by wasco2
reply to post by uSNUUZuLUUz

 

I get it, you have chosen to be a helpless victim and place all your faith in overworked underpaid authorities. Florida recognizes a right to defend life and property. The Florida law was in response to an epidemic of carjackings and an increasing number of carjackers who would shoot first rather than demand the car. And cool it with the hyperbole, I didn't shoot anyone or even threaten anyone, though that was coming next. He knew what he was doing was wrong and the sight of the gun merely convinced him to stop his criminal action. You may be ok with going to an unknown location with a known criminal against your will but I was not.

Enjoy your victim status but remember the courts have held the police have no duty to defend an individual citizen. Also remember "when seconds count the police are minutes away".

It's not about "faith in over-worked authorities". The situation was brought up about a 20 yr old man, and an 80 yr old grandma and "leveling the playing field, buy allowing the grandma to pack heat". Having a gun DOES NOT level the playing field. It makes you into a GOD, with the power to take someone's life. That's the trill right? To be GOD, to have the power to takes someone's life?

Well guess what, you are NOT GOD. You don't have the un-alienable right to kill someone, especially for robbery. Everyone ends up DEAD, when EVERYONE tries to LEVEL the playing field. If everyone thinks like you do, then everyone will have nukes, and every will use nukes because that level's the playing field. Well guess what, you end up with 0 persons alive, thanks to leveling the playing field. Level the playing field means, you eliminate yourself, if everyone thinks like you. Get some brains, please.

Good reading. I wish to say a few things too. (btw I'm sorta military experienced too so I know how easy is to hurt or kill someone)
Gun will always pop bullets, sword will cut, knife can chop and stub. That's what they do.
No doubt firearm is ultimate peacemaker. Psychological effect is priceless. However at least men should carry a non-lethal-weapon too.
A telescopic bat is so much better than some baseball bat or knife. Most people wouldn't stab anyone anyway and for deterrence is definitely better a gun.

The second thing: If you think like "shoot = kill" this could hold your finger back of the trigger and cause fatal hesitation. If you learn how to use any arm in non-lethal way it could help you to keep peace in mind and act effectively and economically at the moment. Therefore it's usefull to know where to head an attack to not hit any vital area, bone or artery,
The skilled is the fighter the more compassion and even love can he display. You may laugh that I've learned such mental attitude from Kwai Chang Caine. Yet this Shao-Lin philosophy indeed made me calm and ready.

As I've read here about Canada vs. US it reminded me a vid I'd like to share. So much good stuff is said there. Most of you propably know it but someone may not.
Thank you.

Michael Moore - Bowling For Columbine

reply to post by uSNUUZuLUUz



Oh man thanks for that, I needed a chuckle. Wow.....

reply to post by uSNUUZuLUUz


I''m sorry but you are simply wrong. Yeah some places, even in this country, don't allow you to defend yourself. In my opinion they are wrong too. The definition of robbery includes by force or threat of force. Anytime you use force against another there is a threat of bodily harm or death. If you try to rob me by force in Florida I can shoot you dead on the spot and probably get a "Good job!" from local authorities. Tasers and mace both fail to work and some people. Look at Rodney King still rolling around on the ground and trying to get away even after multiple Taser hits. A gun is the most effective means to stop someone who means to do you bodily harm. If stopping them means killing them then so be it. They gave up the right to protection by the law when they chose to live outside it.

Originally posted by wasco2
reply to post by uSNUUZuLUUz

 

I''m sorry but you are simply wrong. Yeah some places, even in this country, don't allow you to defend yourself. In my opinion they are wrong too. The definition of robbery includes by force or threat of force. Anytime you use force against another there is a threat of bodily harm or death. If you try to rob me by force in Florida I can shoot you dead on the spot and probably get a "Good job!" from local authorities. Tasers and mace both fail to work and some people. Look at Rodney King still rolling around on the ground and trying to get away even after multiple Taser hits. A gun is the most effective means to stop someone who means to do you bodily harm. If stopping them means killing them then so be it. They gave up the right to protection by the law when they chose to live outside it.

Wow, really, rodney king? So basically they should have just shot him in the head? really? I'm pretty sure that that case went down as a bad case of police brutality. Not that tasers were in-efficient. The cops used way too much force on that guy, and he ended up in a wheel chair right? Now yes, perhaps he should have stopped resisting arrest, but your logic about tasers being in-effective, and that the right to shoot rodney and perhaps kill him is justified? I think not.

reply to post by PapagiorgioCZ


Sorry, "Bowling for Columbine" is utter crap. There are so many outright lies and misrepresentations in it that it can' be considered a documentary. It is a far left anti-gun propaganda piece falsely labelled a "documentary". It has also been thoroughly discredited for anyone that cares to look:

www.hardylaw.net...

reply to post by uSNUUZuLUUz


Really, Rodney King. The travesty in the Rodney King fiasco is good officers were sacrifced on the altar of political correctness to placate the black rioters who destroyed much of LA. When the first trial acquitted the officers and sparked the LA riots the Federal government stepped and prosecuted them to appease the black mob. Rodney King was, and is today, a criminal low life. He was resisting arrest after a high speed chase. Two others in the car with him complied with officer instruction and were not hurt. They were beating him because he shrugged off several Taser shots and attacked one of the officers. The beating was to SAVE his life. The only recourse they had left after trying to subdue him with the batons was their guns. Rodney was a big guy and high as a kite on PCP, he felt no pain from any of the methods used to subdue him. The heavily edited version of the tape shown repeatedly on every news station in the country doesn't show him lunging at one of the officers after being tased. In point of fact the Rodney King verdict has made all of us a little less safe. Good officers rigorously following established department policy know the wrong encounter can put them in prison even if they have done everything right. It also has shown black mobs across the country they can get their way by flagrantly violating the law and destroying and vandalizing property and endangering the innocent.

Originally posted by uSNUUZuLUUz
No one is saying that Robbery is ok. She can call the cops during the robbery or after she has been robbed.

This is just beyond stupid. No, I was going to say something else but there's really no point.

Originally posted by uSNUUZuLUUz

Originally posted by wasco2
reply to post by uSNUUZuLUUz

 

I get it, you have chosen to be a helpless victim and place all your faith in overworked underpaid authorities. Florida recognizes a right to defend life and property. The Florida law was in response to an epidemic of carjackings and an increasing number of carjackers who would shoot first rather than demand the car. And cool it with the hyperbole, I didn't shoot anyone or even threaten anyone, though that was coming next. He knew what he was doing was wrong and the sight of the gun merely convinced him to stop his criminal action. You may be ok with going to an unknown location with a known criminal against your will but I was not.

Enjoy your victim status but remember the courts have held the police have no duty to defend an individual citizen. Also remember "when seconds count the police are minutes away".

It's not about "faith in over-worked authorities". The situation was brought up about a 20 yr old man, and an 80 yr old grandma and "leveling the playing field, buy allowing the grandma to pack heat". Having a gun DOES NOT level the playing field. It makes you into a GOD, with the power to take someone's life. That's the trill right? To be GOD, to have the power to takes someone's life?

Well guess what, you are NOT GOD. You don't have the un-alienable right to kill someone, especially for robbery. Everyone ends up DEAD, when EVERYONE tries to LEVEL the playing field. If everyone thinks like you do, then everyone will have nukes, and every will use nukes because that level's the playing field. Well guess what, you end up with 0 persons alive, thanks to leveling the playing field. Level the playing field means, you eliminate yourself, if everyone thinks like you. Get some brains, please.

Lobo is that you? *sigh* lets explain this again. I don't carry a gun to play god or outright kill people. I carry a gun so I don't have to kill people. I'm more then capable of killing someone with my hands, or a knife or a rock or a stick. Just because people can kill people doesn't mean they do so at the drop of a hat. If that were true their would be a massive number of dead people laying everywhere. A gun is a tool like any other, nothing more. Just like getready said, you have a spare tire just in case you get a flat. I have a gun just in case my or my families life are in danger.

In response to another post about an 80 year old woman that is facing a robber. Yes she absolutely has the right to kill him. He is robbing her which is a real threat to her life. It matters not why is is robbing. Are you saying if my kids were hungry it would be ok to break into your house, pull a weapon, threaten you and your families lives and you would be ok with it? No you wouldn't. And if you really are ok with it, please provide your address, Your easy target attitude will be greatly appreciated by the crooks.

Originally posted by wasco2

Originally posted by uSNUUZuLUUz
No one is saying that Robbery is ok. She can call the cops during the robbery or after she has been robbed.

This is just beyond stupid. No, I was going to say something else but there's really no point.

Perhaps I am just thinking outside the box, perhaps I think GUNS are the way of the OLD World. Perhaps I think that only old people want guns, or those who think in the old ways. Perhaps I am one of the few who believe in World Peace. Perhaps I think that GUNS don't solve problems, people do.

Check out The Wayseer Manifesto:


Lyrics below:
ATTENTION: All you rule-breakers, you misfits and troublemakers - all you free spirits and pioneers - all you visionaries and non-conformists ...
Everything that the establishment has told you is wrong with you
- is actually what's right with you.

You see things others don’t. You are hardwired to change the world. Unlike 9 out of 10 people - your mind is irrepressible - and this threatens authority. You were born to be a revolutionary.

You can’t stand rules because in your heart you know there’s a better way.

You have strengths dangerous to the establishment - and it wants them eliminated, So your whole life you’ve been told your strengths were weaknesses - Now I’m telling you otherwise.

Your impulsivity is a gift - impulses are your key to the miraculous,
Your distractibility - is an artifact of your inspired creativity,
Your mood swings - reflect the natural pulse of life, they give you unstoppable energy when you’re high and deep soulful insight when you’re low,
Been diagnosed with a "disorder”? That’s society’s latest way to deny it’s own illness by pointing the finger at you. Your addictive personality is just a symptom of your vast underused capacity for heroic, creative expression and spiritual connection. your utter lack of repression, your wide eyed idealism, your unmitigated open mind - didn’t anyone ever tell you?! these are the traits shared by the greatest pioneers and visionaries and innovators, revolutionaries, procrastinators and drama queens, activists on the social scene, space cadets and mavericks, philosophers and derelicts, business suits flying fighter jets, football stars and sex addicts, celebrities with ADD, alcoholics who seek novelty, first responders - prophets and saints, mystics and change agents.

We are - all - the same - you know
‘cuz we’re all affected by the way -
We are - all - the same - you know
‘cuz we’re all attracted to the flame -

You know in your heart that there's a natural order to life,
something more sovereign than any man-made rules or laws could ever express.

This natural order is called "the Way."

The Way is the eternal substrate of the cosmos. It guides the very current of time and space. The Way is known by some as the Will of God, Divine Providence, the Holy Spirit, the implicate order, the Tao, reverse-entropy, life-force, but for now we’ll simply call it "the Way." The Way is reflected in you as the source of your inspiration, the source of your passions, your wisdom, your enthusiasm, your intuition, your spiritual fire - love. The Way takes the chaos out of the Universe and breathes life into it by reflecting divine order. The Way, when experienced by the mind, is genius, when perceived through the eyes is beauty, when felt with the senses is grace, when allowed into the heart ... is love.

Most people cannot sense the Way directly. ... But then there are the Wayseers. The keepers of the flame. Wayseers have an unexplainable knack for just knowing the Way. They sense it in their very being. They can’t tell you why or how they arrived at the right answer. They just know it in their core. They can’t show their work. So don’t ask. Their minds simply resonate with the Way. When the Way is present, so are they.

While others are blind to it, and society begs you to ignore it, “the Way” stirs you inside. Neurological repression blocks most people’s awareness of the Way - censoring all thoughts and impulses from the unconscious is their prefrontal cortex - the gestapo of the brain - nothing which violates its socialized programming even gets through; but your mind is different. your mind has been cracked wide open to the Way - by some miraculous genetic trait, some psychotropic chemical or maybe even by the will of your very soul, your brain’s reward pathways have been hijacked - dopamine employed to overthrow the fascist dictatorship of your prefrontal cortex - now your brain is free of repression, your mind free of censorship, your awareness exposed to the turbulent seas of the unconscious - through this open doorway divine light shines into your consciousness showing you the Way. This is what makes you a Wayseer.

90% of human civilization is populated with those who’s brains are blocked to the Way. Their brains are hardwired to enforce the social programming indoctrinated since birth. Unlike you they cannot break out of this programming, because they have not yet experienced the necessary revolution of mind. These programmed people take social institutions and rules very seriously. Society is full of games programmed to keep peoples’ minds occupied so they will not revolt. These games often cause sick fixations on peculiar protocols, power structures, taboos and domination - all subtle forms of human bondage - This distinct form of madness is not only tolerated by the masses but insisted upon. The programmed ones believe in rules so forcefully they become willing to destroy anyone who violates them.

Wayseers are the ones who call their bluff. Since Wayseer minds are free to reject social programming, Wayseers readily see social institutions for what they are - imaginary games. Wayseers comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable. Helping those who are lost in these games and refuse to help themselves is a calling of many Wayseers. Since Wayseers are the ones who keep contact with the original source of reality - they are able to disrupt societal conventions and even governments to realign humanity with the Way.

The Wayseers are an ancient lineage. A kind of priesthood - carriers of the flame - ones "in the know." There must always be Wayseers to reform the dizzying psychotic spinning gears of society - giant mindless hamster wheels obscuring the pure blue sky, keeping humanity shackled in a darkened cage - so Wayseers are called - to shed light on the madness of society - to continually resurrect the timeless transcendent Spirit of Truth -

Wayseers reveal this divine truth by devoting themselves to the birth of some creative or disruptive act expressed through art or philosophy, innovations to shake up industry, revolutions for democracy, coups that topple hypocrisy, movements of solidarity, changes that leave a legacy, rebellions against policy, spirit infused technology, moments of clarity, things that challenge barbarity, watersheds of sincerity, momentous drives for charity
We are - all - the same - you know
‘cuz we’re all affected by the way -
We are - all - the same - you know
‘cuz we’re all attracted to the flame -

This is your calling, Wayseer.
You’ve found your tribe.
Welcome home.

Originally posted by wasco2
reply to post by PapagiorgioCZ

 

Sorry, "Bowling for Columbine" is utter crap. There are so many outright lies and misrepresentations in it that it can' be considered a documentary. It is a far left anti-gun propaganda piece falsely labelled a "documentary". It has also been thoroughly discredited for anyone that cares to look:

www.hardylaw.net...

Your link is broken. Well, I've seen it some water back and my english was - you know, even now it's rather intermediate. I don't remember it as pure anti-gun prop. I don't agree with every word but what I enjoyed was comparison US-Canada in gun posession, crimes number, and something about mentality of american people. As American I wouldn't propably like to hear it too, but sincirely: is it really 100% crap?

reply to post by uSNUUZuLUUz


Yeah, well, perhaps I think you're a simple minded idiot. I really wish you could wake up. The veneer of civilization is very thin and easily stripped off. The whole world is headed for desperate times. People become a little, or in some cases a lot, less civlized in desperate times. You approach a desperate band of predators searching for food and water they NEED to stay alive while holding out an olive branch and singing "Kumbaya" and they're going to gut you like a fish. And you'll be lucky if that's all they do while they ransack your place. As food and the means to obtain it become scarce I'm pretty sure we're going to see a global rise in incidents of cannibalism. Cannibal tribes don't call human meat "long pig" because it tastes bad. We like to think we're not but under that fragile veneer of civilization we're all predatory animals.

reply to post by uSNUUZuLUUz


i'm just not sure you know what you're saying. you realize robbery is a violent crime, right? that it's not simply a taking of property?

are you thinking burglary, or some lesser theft?

robbery involves harm, a physical threat, and is a very big deal. robbery is a felony. i think maybe you just picked a poor crime for your example. if you're being robbed, by all means use a weapon to stop it.