Theories On Racial Diversity

For a little more information on where humans and Neanderthals came from, see this thread.

Whites came from Blacks

We have learned that Homo sapiens have Neanderthal DNA. We know that H. sapiens (humans) came from Africa, and Neanderthals came from Europe. After the ice from the last glacial period melted, there was a clear way for humans to venture out of Africa and into Europe. When they got into Europe, they met the Neanderthals. We know that Neanderthals became extinct, and it is most likely because of humans. Through a combination of war and interbreeding between the Neanderthals and the humans, Neanderthals disappeared. However, they live on in humans because of the interbreeding. Now, when you look at the genomes of different humans, the ones with the Neanderthal DNA are the Europeans. The Celtic and Germanic peoples have Neanderthal DNA. Pure Africans (negros) do not have Neanderthal DNA. What does this tell us? Well, it tells me that humans were possibly all black skinned originally. Through interbreeding with Neanderthals, the resulting race was a light skinned human. This is why white people also have completely different facial features, hair texture and stature than black people. I believe this is where the white skinned race came from.

Where did Asians come from?

If you consider this theory, what then do we make of Asians? Asian people are different from both blacks and whites. They have a monolid, which in my opinion, is almost alien (uh oh, conspiracy!). I'm not saying that the Asian race is a hybrid of human and alien; I'm saying that the monolid and Asian traits had to have come from somewhere. Who knows where they came from?

What about Arabs?

I do not believe in the Bible as a holy book. I do however believe it has lots of historical data to provide. From reading the Bible, I have come to this conclusion: Abraham was the first "Jew" (Israelite). However, he was actually a Sumerian. So the Israelites are possibly the last remaining Sumerians. The Bible also tells that when Abraham had sex with his Egyptian slave, she conceived Ishmael, who became the father of the Arabs. There are a lot of conspiracy theories about the Egyptians having contact with aliens, and the Sumerians having contact with aliens. Is it possible that those two races were created through genetic manipulation of the original (black) humans? Aliens with genetic mastery could easily manipulate the primitive Homo sapiens to create new races. Is it possible that's where Egyptians and Sumerians came from, which eventually led to all of the other Arabian races? Perhaps this is also true of the Asian races. Genetic manipulation by advanced beings.

Human Beings

Regardless of all of this, we are all human beings. We shouldn't let race divide us, because we all breathe the same air and share this planet. We all bleed red. So what are your thoughts on the emergence of different races? Science offers a clue about white people (Neanderthal DNA), but what about other races? I'm curious to hear what others think of these ideas.

reply to post by OrphenFire


when you look at the genomes of different humans, the ones with the Neanderthal DNA are the Europeans.Really would you like to provide proof of your claim. And also wouldn't that mean white people came before blacks seeing as how Neanderthals came first. I think you need to do some more research on the subject.

reply to post by pcrobotwolf


Neanderthals are not the ancestors of humans. They are a completely separate "strand" of evolution from the species Homo heidelbergensis. Basically, the population of H. heidelbergensis got separated by the ice age into Europe and Africa. There, they evolved into two distinct species: Homo neanderthalensis in Europe and Homo sapiens in Africa.

www.cosmosmagazine.com...

Correcting for a sample bias in the genetic databases of modern humans, the researchers sequenced DNA from five different individuals from different regions around the world: Southern Africa, West Africa, Papua New Guinea, China and France.

When the researchers compared the genomes of the five modern day humans to the Neanderthal, they found that the non-African genomes were more similar to Neanderthals than the African genomes.

Because these similarities are present in the genomes of the individuals from China, Papua New Guinea and France, this suggests that human and Neanderthal interbreeding took place when they shared a common ancestor - after the migration out of Africa.

reply to post by OrphenFire


Hummm where have i seen low forehead short stockie build and wide faces before hummm i wonder www.bing.com... le and im not trying to be racist but just look www.bing.com...

reply to post by pcrobotwolf


What are you implying with the post above? Please clarify. Are you saying that Australian Aborigines are Neanderthals?

I believe that all races came from a different beginning. I heard somewhere that Chines scientist believe that the East Asian people evolved from homo erectus. I personally believe in the water ape theory for white people. Just due to the way that the nostrils point down, hair patterns, hip structure and location of the naval. This is a link for the belly button theory on the matter www.google.com...

Somethings can also be said about sexual activity and eating habits between the races as well! For example, Blacks are known to have many children (whites too, i have 11 aunts and uncles on my moms side alone, but bear with me). Blacks are also probably the most promiscous race, starting sexual maturity at an earlier age, higher sex hormones, earlier age of sexual interactions, etc.( www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov... / that is just one study, there are many out there more related to the point I am making, if you take the time to GOOGLE it will help everyone to understand and appreciate our differences, such as race is a biological construct not a social construct and so forth.) But I digress, This correlates to food. More children = more mouths to feed. In sub tropical-tropical regions food is readily available year round, no problem to feed the children. The children could also help gather food for the village. Now, in the temperate regions, the regions with winter, food is only available certain times. Soo, less food in general would not make it ideal to produce many children, only procreate to pass on the bloodline and to help harvest, gather, hunt and get ready for winter when there is no food readily available.
Theres more but I can't remember off the top of my head. I read the above that I stated from an article that a professor posted on the races.
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Originally posted by OrphenFire
reply to post by pcrobotwolf

 

What are you implying with the post above? Please clarify. Are you saying that Australian Aborigines are Neanderthals?

Didn't you see the resemblance? It almost looks inevitable!

Arabic peoples are more closely related to the Caucasian peoples. The darker skin, than that of Europeans, is an adaptation to the sun. It's called melanin.

Just leave it.

Nobody knows what colour early humans were, or what their facial features looked like, apart from those which are determined by bone structure.

This kind of speculation is racist by definition, whatever your own personal views and feelings.

Just leave it.

Originally posted by Astyanax
Just leave it.

Nobody knows what colour early humans were, or what their facial features looked like, apart from those which are determined by bone structure.

This kind of speculation is racist by definition, whatever your own personal views and feelings.

Just leave it.

I'm going to have to agree with you on this one. These types of discussions always get out of hand anyways.

Originally posted by pcrobotwolf
reply to post by OrphenFire

 

when you look at the genomes of different humans, the ones with the Neanderthal DNA are the Europeans.Really would you like to provide proof of your claim. And also wouldn't that mean white people came before blacks seeing as how Neanderthals came first. I think you need to do some more research on the subject.

You both need to do more research really. Then again so does science.

As Neanderthals and other humans are considered to have a common ancestor how can you say one came first?

reply to post by Pimander


Quite easily. Myself and my parents have a common ancestor, it's not paradoxical to say my parents came first. Likewise,I share a common ancestor with my great aunts and uncles (and so on).

reply to post by john_bmth

Are you trying to say the common ancestor was white? If a black race (Africans?) and a white race (Neanderthals?) existed at the same time, which came first???



Omg, I'm confusing myself now. Maybe I'd better cut down on the wine.

reply to post by OrphenFire


Please, read up on some actual scientific work before idly speculating about issues that have actually been tackled in the scientific literature.

This thread is entirely pointless without reference to actual scientific works.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
This thread is entirely pointless without reference to actual scientific works.

Not entirely. It has loads of potential to amuse me.

This is a discussion site not a journal. Who are you the thought police?

reply to post by Pimander


Um...look to your left. Look to your right. Now look back to the middle. On your left and right you should see something that's written. "deny ignorance"

That's what I'm doing. We're a discussion site...and we're supposed to deny ignorance. This thread is purely ignorant...ergo I do my best to fight the ignorance that is trying to take root in this thread.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

It's bollox mate, you're right... But still a tiny bit funny you've go to admit.

Originally posted by Pimander
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

It's bollox mate, you're right... But still a tiny bit funny you've go to admit.

I wasn't trying to be funny. I was postulating a theory that the interbreeding of Neanderthals and humans led to a drastic racial diversity. Fact: humans today have some Neanderthal DNA. Neanderthals are extinct, therefore the interbreeding of humans and Neanderthals positively took place. Fact: Neanderthals hailed from Europe, and humans hailed from Africa. (there is no "came first", they are entirely different species who evolved independently of one another from the split population of Homo heidelbergensis (cave men). Africa is closer to equator and hotter. Europe is further up and cold. The exposure of a hot, unshielded sun led Homo sapiens to evolve dark skin and the cooler climate led Homo neanderthalensis to evolve lighter skin.

And I don't see how anyone can think I'm being racist. If you find racism in my remarks, you yourself are reading that into the discussion.

reply to post by OrphenFire

reply to post by OrphenFire
With time, the distribution of allele frequency becomes more considerable, the gene pool segregates, thus the phenotypes undergo different selection pressures. I doubt the "human" form was a convergent evolutionary process. I'm picturing a scenario where the first mutant allele arose in a single individual in primate population, and over millions of years of differential reproduction, it became fixed, and at the same time the population spread out. Most in africa, some in europe, some in asia. Now we have patches of humanoids in much of eurasia and africa, that were free to evolve distinct, artificial characteristics.

Of course one single nucleotide mutation does not contribute to all the parts that distinguish the human body from whatever the previous primate form was, but reducing such to population genetics allows people to picture how things could have occurred retrospectively.

The proportion of variance in skin color explained by exposure to hot temperatures and sunlight is not very convincing IMO, for many neighboring tribes in Papua New Guinea range from light to dark. Skin color within tribes is essentially uniform, between tribes its marked, like a social or sexual barrier. And near the equator pigmentation is highly variable. I would say its merely a product of sexual selection.

At this point, any invocation of alien DNA manipulation is absurd and irresponsible.

reply to post by OrphenFire

Originally posted by OrphenFire
I wasn't trying to be funny. I was postulating a theory that the interbreeding of Neanderthals and humans led to a drastic racial diversity.

No, you were making an idle speculation based on a lack of data.

Fact: humans today have some Neanderthal DNA.

Citation needed. Now, I know that there is speculation that this is the case, but I'm not aware of any paper that has definitively demonstrated it.

Neanderthals are extinct, therefore the interbreeding of humans and Neanderthals positively took place.

...what? How do you know it didn't happen through horizontal gene transfer? We may have gotten it through retroviral insertion through a virus that infected both humans and Neanderthals.

Fact: Neanderthals hailed from Europe, and humans hailed from Africa.

Fact: Neanderthals are a species of human.

(there is no "came first", they are entirely different species who evolved independently of one another from the split population of Homo heidelbergensis (cave men).

Alright, show me a citation on this too.

Africa is closer to equator and hotter. Europe is further up and cold. The exposure of a hot, unshielded sun led Homo sapiens to evolve dark skin and the cooler climate led Homo neanderthalensis to evolve lighter skin.

...so you're speculating? I'd like to point out that you're speculating that interbreeding led to something that you admit can evolve without interbreeding...isn't it a bit odd that you're self-defeating here?

And I don't see how anyone can think I'm being racist. If you find racism in my remarks, you yourself are reading that into the discussion.

...well, I'm not saying you're racist...but you did make a few racially insensitive remarks...like certain groups of people looking weird.

Our species has its origins in Africa. There were a few small immigration waves out of Africa. Those populations (including direct ancestors of Europeans, Asians and Native Americans) seemed to have interbred with Neanderthals, only Sub-Saharan Africans and some Pacific Islanders don't have any Neanderthal DNA (check e.g. Fig 5 in article).

www.sciencemag.org...

From the Article:

Implications for modern human origins. One model for modern human origins suggests that all present-day humans trace all their ancestry back to a small African population that expanded and replaced archaic forms of humans without admixture. Our analysis of the Neandertal genome may not be compatible with this view because Neandertals are on average closer to individuals in Eurasia than to individuals in Africa. Furthermore, individuals in Eurasia today carry regions in their genome that are closely related to those in Neandertals and distant from other present-day humans. The data suggest that between 1 and 4% of the genomes of people in Eurasia are derived from Neandertals. Thus, while the Neandertal genome presents a challenge to the simplest version of an “out-of-Africa” model for modern human origins, it continues to support the view that the vast majority of genetic variants that exist at appreciable frequencies outside Africa came from Africa with the spread of anatomically modern humans. A striking observation is that Neandertals are as closely related to a Chinese and Papuan individual as to a French individual, even though morphologically recognizable Neandertals exist only in the fossil record of Europe and western Asia. Thus, the gene flow between Neandertals and modern humans that we detect most likely occurred before the divergence of Europeans, East Asians, and Papuans. This may be explained by mixing of early modern humans ancestral to present-day non-Africans with Neandertals in the Middle East before their expansion into Eurasia. Such a scenario is compatible with the archaeological record, which shows that modern humans appeared in the Middle East before 100,000 years ago whereas the Neandertals existed in the same region after this time, probably until 50,000 years ago.