Some of you need to think a little better

reply to post by saltdog


If you honestly think that you can fend off a large group of people heading from a city into the wild you must have some pretty heavy firepower. Of course heavy firepower makes a lot of noise that will attract even more people thinking that you must have something great worth defending.

Your house being off the road means nothing, as there is no guarantee that people will be following roads. The roads will most likely be jammed full of abandoned, broken down, or out of fuel cars. Desperate people will use the roads for ambushing others to take their stuff or to carjack them. Most people will eventually end up on foot, and will be cutting across country.

Your best bet is to live in a tight knit community where people can band together to fend off large groups, or to head out where there are no people. Of course everything depends on what the disaster is, how long it lasts, and what shape the government is in after its over.

dead is dead.....
and well, before I am gonna find myself working my arse off a 80 years old or 90 and dropping dead on the job because some arses in gov't thought it would be nice to give the social security funds to their buddies, or their pets, well, I'll start making preparations now, find a little spot on one of those mountains that's off the beaten path, and well, ya, I'd prefer to die on the mountain, working for myself instead of the rich bankers, and their poor pets.....
and the buddies of the politicians....
who knows, might make it, might not....
it's my choice though, and well, ya, I plan on having a weapon, no, I don't plan on killing any cute furry critters, maybe a fish once in awhile....
and what the hell, I've been giving and giving all my life, just to end up with a splint on my ankle believing that I was never gonna walk again because of the crazy way healthcare is handled in this country!! yes.....I have no problem taking what god provides!! and well, the food I plan on harvesting everyone else, more than likely will be trampling over ignoring as they go chasing down the poor deer and bunnies!!!
the only thing I will be taking from you is my contribution to your society, taxes, labor.....
I've come to the conclusion that you don't deserve it!!!

I don't actually intend on heading into any areas that would be generally inhabited, and wouldn't head out there unitl I knew there was probably no coming back for a long, long time. But yeah, avoiding ALL other human contact would be priority #1, Push hard as you can to get as far back as you can as fast as you can and silent running from then on !!!!!!! Living off the land can be done because my folks done taught me good ! but staying covert is the key !

reply to post by saltdog


Semper Fi Devil, I didn't rate SERE but I was at JDUB and that was enough suck for me. Although one of my Gunnys at NMITC was a SERE instructor, didn't talk much about it other than "You wouldn't make it"

People are going to expect the government to save them because that's what they've been conditioned to do. If Katrina didn't wake them up, you can forget it. Even in my family... I take it upon myself to do EVERYTHING that's needed , all the wife and kids have to do is follow my lead, in the event that I'm not around then they follow the plan I laid out for them.

My wife was on the fence in the beginning, (she grew up in a bubble where nothing ever bad happened, so she was inclined to think nothing bad would ever happen) but after teaching her how things happen, why things happen, and how to prevent them from happening to us. She started coming around, she actually enjoys going to the range now, and she's fully capable of running and protecting the household while Im away.

This has done 2 things

#1 It's Increased her confidence in herself and her capabilities , I've shown her that she has a strength that she didn't know she possesed, I've tried to teach her that she may have to make tremendously hard desicions very quickly and not to dwell on them at that time, just take action if that action was made in the best interest and safety of the family, regardless what others think or say , it was the right action.

#2 It has dramatically dercreased my stress levels when I'm away , this lets me focus on the task at hand and not worry about "what ifs"

Many people think it's crazy... I've brought scenarios up with friends to see where their head was at, some don't care... others of likemind were tracking immediately. I'd start them out with simple practical things like keeping 6 months of food and bills covered in case of financial emergency or picking up a Genny in case of a blackout , Having Fire extinguishers & Having all of your important documents in aplastic bag locked in a fire proof safe and having copies on a flash drive, knowing CPR/BLS and taking a First Aid class and buying a REAL First aid kit. Depending on how these Ideas were received , I progressed to more advanced Ideas. Because of OPSEC I wouldn't get into my personal preps or what I'M doing.. but I gave them a few general Ideas , showed them a few websites to check out and so on & so forth.

To those reading this that think people that hope for the best but prepare for the worst are crazy, understand something... If there is one thing that's a constant in this world it is change. Don't become myopic and think that things will continue to be the way they have always been. Don't expect someone to come to your rescue, I'm trying to help you help yourself. Ask yourself this, If you were in an emergency and dialed 911 and no one picked up... what would you do? How would you perform?

A lot depends on what the scenario is. Its going to be a very different situation for a plague, economic collapse, natural disaster, or a war. The situation is going to vary greatly based on the scale of the event, and how badly the government loses its ability to maintain order throughout the situation.

I live in Florida, and I have always worked in industries that have kept me at work either through or right up until a disaster occurs. Having lived around the country I would have to say that on the whole, people who live in areas prone to disasters, such as hurricanes, tend to be more prepared and know what to do in an emergency. When one strikes, you see both the good and the bad come out in folks. On one hand you will often see neighborhoods and communities pull together and work as a team, yet at the same time you’ll walk through a store or gas station, and see people simply hoarding stuff well beyond what they require.

A recent example is the hoarding that went on in the US of Iodine tablets by people who lived so far away from the situation that any effects were negligible, yet they were buying them up so the people in actual need couldn’t get them. Even worse you had folks who bought them with the intention of reselling them at a grossly inflated profit.

Anyway, in my estimation, after having been through major hurricanes including the year we had four in rapid succession, having spent weeks without power, seeing all the gas stations run out of gas and every store picked clean of anything edible, plus after seeing what happened in Katrina, I think I can venture a guess as to what would happen in a significant breakdown.

Things would work pretty normally for about the first 48 hours, your police would still be on station, your fire departments would be running, as would hospitals. Most of your middle class people in the suburbs will work together as groups to get by. People who fled the area will be jamming up the roads, and eating up gas, to get back home to see what the damage is to their property.

After 48 hours with no outside resupply of goods or fuel, things would begin to break down. Starting with the lower income, urban areas. There you would see looting and riots beginning to break out. This would tie up, and eventually break down your law enforcement and rescue workers. Scarcity of fuel would also start to hit rescue teams as the gas stations, which are running on emergency reserves, would begin to run dry. Those who have lived through a hurricane know that there is generally only enough gas in a city to run things for around 48 hours without resupply, with some variance depending on the exact situation (ie. If a lot of people took the the roads to evacuate, etc...).

By the end of the week, with nothing being delivered to stores, and lower income people running out of both food and possibly water (depends on the disaster, but I have almost always seen city water become questionable in nearly every disaster), urban areas would become war zones unless the national guard is called in (just like in Katrina). Many of your aid workers would either be unable to get to work, or would stop going in to take care of their own families. Your prison guards would most likely be unable to get to work, or be unable to control their populations, leading to a mass of desperate prisoners ending up out on the streets. Hospitals would be overwhelmed, and many of your elderly would be dead due to exposure from lack of electricity. Usually things never get to this point because normally there is some emergency aid and outside help coming in within a weeks time.

If there is still no outside aid by the second week, you’ll have gangs from the urban areas, which have now been thoroughly looted, heading into the suburbs. Most of your people in the suburbs will be running low on goods by now as well, and you can pretty much guarantee that all of your social services (Police, Rescue, Hospital) will be overwhelmed, low on staff, fuel, and resources to do much of anything. Hospitals would simply be huge morgues by this point, having to mass bury or burn bodies to keep down the disease and smell (there would be no refrigeration after all). Some of your suburban people will probably decide to head out of the area at this point, to go to relatives or bug out, but will most likely die on the roads from others who are already stranded out there after either breaking down or running out of gas from following a similar bug out plan. The highway system is going to be a big parking lot full of gangs of people on foot looking to intercept the next functioning vehicle they encounter.

Your gangs that have survived the fighting in the urban areas, have grown in size, now have some combat experience, a plan of attack, and will be well armed with what they have looted from others. After they have raped, pillaged, and plundered their way through the suburbs, they will head into the rural areas, most likely looting everything they can find along the way.

To extrapolate this out the ultimate outcome, eventually you end up with tribes of people, hardened from fighting and killing, who are at this point mainly emotionless psychopaths, roaming the areas in large gangs or tribes. Eventually the most successful of these groups will again settle somewhere and reestablish some form of society.

Anyone who thinks they can stand against such a situation alone, or even in a small group is deluding themselves. I don’t care if you are the most badass marine that ever walked the planet, eventually you will need outside help, expertise, you’ll get sick, hurt, get an infection, break a bone, run out of ammo/equipment, important equipment will break down, or outsiders will simply grind you down until they take what they want from you. Oh... and the gangs that you will encounter will most likely be large, well armed, hungry, ruthless, and quite battle hardened by the time they get to your "no trespassing" sign and lone shotgun.

reply to post by saltdog

Some of you think it will be like camping for the weekend, I'll have my computer and internet...phone and tv...all I know is that if TSHTF I want to be as far away from people that think like this as possible....just remember if TSHTF and you are on my land...if you can read MY signs on MY land...your in range and I don't ask questions.

Au Contraire'

there will be mad max scenes everywhere, as war-lords stake out areas/regions

groups like MS13, Hells Angels, Pagans will stomp all over the place...& picking off any of the forward scouts will only attract more keen interest in "your land" with signs...



2 ways to thrive...
be the big-dog on the porch
or secret yourself like Ann Frank did for the WWII years

Originally posted by St Udio

groups like MS13, Hells Angels, Pagans will stomp all over the place...& picking off any of the forward scouts will only attract more keen interest in "your land" with signs...

Don't forget South American Drug Cartels which are already setting up shop in hundreds of American cities as we speak (via AOL yesterday). Xe Services (formerly Blackwater) will be another big contender. They're setting up shop all over the country as well, and are already formidable to vex the US government if they wanted to. They'll definitely be looking to cut a large slice of pie out for themselves.

The true reality of things will be much worse for some, yet beneficial for others. Anyone with diabetes (insulin dependent) will be gone within a few months. Same goes for anyone dependent on any med that keeps them alive. The down side is, everyone who is dependent on drugs to remain "sane" will be out and about, roaming the streets.
Disease and stupidity will kill most, as will radiation from unmanned nuclear power plants. These vast die offs will help spread the food supply a little further, but the toxins due to the unburied dead and radiation will make some food and water undrinkable. People have visions of roaming the Earth and taking what they need until they can establish a permanent camp/home with gardens and wells as in Stephen King's 'The Stand', and if there is a Rapture or Pandemic this may be the case in some small areas, but almost no one will be able to escape the radiation and rot. Things will likely be more like the movie 'The Road'; gray, dirty, diseased, full of cannibals and dying plantlife. Suvival will be the worst fate. Not saying I plan on lying down and dying, but I can't say the end is something I look forward to either.

The hard truth is most supplies have a shelf life of about 3 years...... and then what? Will you have to have a garden to grow your own food, and if so, will the soil be clean (IE> absent from deadly chemicals or radiation)? Will there be sunlight to grow these plants. In the event of a comet/meteor hitting the earth or a super volcano, the answer is likely "no". Survival is called "survival" for a reason, and there will be no room for the slow, obese, sickly (mental/physical), arrogant/entitled, or stupid. If you fall into any of these categories you can look forward to death, and in so should welcome it when your time comes, and leave some supplies for your loved ones who might be able to use said resources to further their chances.

reply to post by defcon5


I do agree with most of the posts in this thread.

I would think it would depend on what emergency is at hand before I start running to the hills with my family..it also depends on the location where one lives too.

1. Astrological anomaly : super catastrophic.. were are we going to run to..
2. Mega/super caldera eruption..were are we going to run to..
3. Mega/super solar flare that wipes out some/most/all communications and services : Recoverable ( I know I dont have proof and links ..but Im sure there are backups that are Hard Stored for repair for such an event ).. were are we going to run to
4. Mega/super Quake : Local event that will affect a large amount of people.. were are we going to run to in that affected zone.
5. Full blown Atomic war : ?? doubt that..
6. Economic collapse : Dollars go down in countries across the planet ( this is already happened ). Gas and Food go skyrocket where nobody can afford 5 gal of gas much less a weeks worth of food for a family of 3 ( average ) for under 500 bucks basically..

Basically I do not see any reason to go up the High hills for any major impact on the race.

I also do not see the Gangs of the deepest depths of our torn cities massing around killing/raping/cannibalizing others when there going to be basically dead within there DT timeframe ( yes the elderly will wash away.. sad but true..and so will the addicts shaking around for not food but drugs ( there will be no drugs imported in said cataclysms ))

Water is the most important substance on earth ( radiated or not ). Fresh water is Domain ..

If your out there in the sticks ..and have no water..you dead..

Personally.. depending on the emergency .. I would run to the hills for a bit ( camping )... then after that I would run to the biggest guns around ( Military placements ).

Believe it or not..those guys with the tanks and big guns will snuff out the Crazy. It will NOT be tolerated

I have been through Andrew ( big one ) and I can tell you that the guys with the guns were NOT against anyone..just secure and keep the peace.

Andrew made a lot of locals Help each other .. A Global event could possibly change how people react in short term ..but in long term there not going to snipe you..or kill your males and rape your fems...and then enslave the kids..There is more Good then Bad . Bring the gangs out of any city and they will be dead in a week !

You really think the whole "Army,Navy,Air Force and Marines" are out to serve there Masters ?

Drones to serve .. All of them ?

The masses Might be dumb..but there not Stupid or have no feelings for there family .

Get Safe .. not alone. If the NWO wanted you gone .. they would have done this already ..

I am going to get as close to the biggest guns as possible with my family asap.

Peace JG..

reply to post by saltdog


well done, I agree that alot of idiots think they are going to "go to the mountains, hunt and fish, live off the land, etc"...

they never stop and think that the families who already live there CLAIM the wilderness as theirs!! And the fact there is not enough wild animal around to feed all the wannabe city slicker mountain men!! deer, coons, squirrels will be hunted to extinction within WEEKS!!

these idiots who think they will "live off the land" are really stupid, most couldn't last a week. and I love how everyone can "hunt", are crack shots with a rifle, can beat up anybody, and are smarter than everyone else.

if in SHTF, soemone does get a deer, they will be ambushed while dragging it back to camp by those who
1. grew up in the area, have 100's relatives, know the area and HATE OUTSIDERS..
2. SEE NUMBER ONE

reply to post by defcon5


Have you ever studied war or battles?

a single sniper can keep a platoon at bay..

2 or 3 well positioned snipers can take out a hundred of refugees easily.. here is how.

a.) any area someone is planning to defned will natruall have choke points
b.) usually people seek cover when being attacked
c.) those areas are not recon'd very well when under fire--(people just hit the dirt)
d.) simple booby traps in the areas set up as "safe cover"
e.) people who have been fleeing are scared, exhausted, hungry, not very well armed and unfamiliar with terrain


1. add to the fact that most smaller towns/ wilderness [ areas the golden horde will be headed for] have already been prepared mentally and physically for the flood of refugees.
2. already know better how to survive with less, have a network in place for shtf and since they are hunkered down will undountedly have more guns and ammo than those who are fleeing
3. anyone wearing baggy pants (hint,, hint) will usually be put down immediately by the neighborhood rednecks before they get 200 yards of any farm, neighborhood or town.

reply to post by defcon5


In order for the people leaving the city, to be able to find my location and me, first off they would have to go in the right direction...for several miles...that requires them to be off the main roads and bust brush...so the people that are leaving will be traveling down the highways and other main paved roads to get out...but where are they headed? uncle joe's, grandma's or there brotheror sisters house?
My point being, who is going to leave the shelter and protection of there home and neighborhood when thats all they mainly know...there will be a few, however if the gangs in the cities are active and it is a true SHTF, many will wait in there apt. or house for the government to help, once they realise that after 3-5 weeks and no help has come, then are they going to leave? will the road ways even be open or will it be littered with cars that ran out of gas and in grid lock...now they are abandoned vehicles and you have to walk out....take that and add to it that they would have to find me and my house...what direction do they go in? oh by the way...the closest city to me with over 500,000. people in it is over 3 hours away driving interstate speeds....why don't you came find me if you can....since your so good...oh but wait a min. it isn't just me there....who else and what else do I have...oh wait a min...what do they do? I will let you know something, I have less training and experiance than many others in the group...we are all combat vets with several tours and have been battle tested and I can take care of myself just fine....
Only those who die in Battle, have seen the end of war.

Originally posted by defcon5
A lot depends on what the scenario is. Its going to be a very different situation for a plague, economic collapse, natural disaster, or a war. The situation is going to vary greatly based on the scale of the event, and how badly the government loses its ability to maintain order throughout the situation.

I live in Florida, and I have always worked in industries that have kept me at work either through or right up until a disaster occurs. Having lived around the country I would have to say that on the whole, people who live in areas prone to disasters, such as hurricanes, tend to be more prepared and know what to do in an emergency. When one strikes, you see both the good and the bad come out in folks. On one hand you will often see neighborhoods and communities pull together and work as a team, yet at the same time you’ll walk through a store or gas station, and see people simply hoarding stuff well beyond what they require.

A recent example is the hoarding that went on in the US of Iodine tablets by people who lived so far away from the situation that any effects were negligible, yet they were buying them up so the people in actual need couldn’t get them. Even worse you had folks who bought them with the intention of reselling them at a grossly inflated profit.

Anyway, in my estimation, after having been through major hurricanes including the year we had four in rapid succession, having spent weeks without power, seeing all the gas stations run out of gas and every store picked clean of anything edible, plus after seeing what happened in Katrina, I think I can venture a guess as to what would happen in a significant breakdown.

Things would work pretty normally for about the first 48 hours, your police would still be on station, your fire departments would be running, as would hospitals. Most of your middle class people in the suburbs will work together as groups to get by. People who fled the area will be jamming up the roads, and eating up gas, to get back home to see what the damage is to their property.

After 48 hours with no outside resupply of goods or fuel, things would begin to break down. Starting with the lower income, urban areas. There you would see looting and riots beginning to break out. This would tie up, and eventually break down your law enforcement and rescue workers. Scarcity of fuel would also start to hit rescue teams as the gas stations, which are running on emergency reserves, would begin to run dry. Those who have lived through a hurricane know that there is generally only enough gas in a city to run things for around 48 hours without resupply, with some variance depending on the exact situation (ie. If a lot of people took the the roads to evacuate, etc...).

By the end of the week, with nothing being delivered to stores, and lower income people running out of both food and possibly water (depends on the disaster, but I have almost always seen city water become questionable in nearly every disaster), urban areas would become war zones unless the national guard is called in (just like in Katrina). Many of your aid workers would either be unable to get to work, or would stop going in to take care of their own families. Your prison guards would most likely be unable to get to work, or be unable to control their populations, leading to a mass of desperate prisoners ending up out on the streets. Hospitals would be overwhelmed, and many of your elderly would be dead due to exposure from lack of electricity. Usually things never get to this point because normally there is some emergency aid and outside help coming in within a weeks time.

If there is still no outside aid by the second week, you’ll have gangs from the urban areas, which have now been thoroughly looted, heading into the suburbs. Most of your people in the suburbs will be running low on goods by now as well, and you can pretty much guarantee that all of your social services (Police, Rescue, Hospital) will be overwhelmed, low on staff, fuel, and resources to do much of anything. Hospitals would simply be huge morgues by this point, having to mass bury or burn bodies to keep down the disease and smell (there would be no refrigeration after all). Some of your suburban people will probably decide to head out of the area at this point, to go to relatives or bug out, but will most likely die on the roads from others who are already stranded out there after either breaking down or running out of gas from following a similar bug out plan. The highway system is going to be a big parking lot full of gangs of people on foot looking to intercept the next functioning vehicle they encounter.

Your gangs that have survived the fighting in the urban areas, have grown in size, now have some combat experience, a plan of attack, and will be well armed with what they have looted from others. After they have raped, pillaged, and plundered their way through the suburbs, they will head into the rural areas, most likely looting everything they can find along the way.

To extrapolate this out the ultimate outcome, eventually you end up with tribes of people, hardened from fighting and killing, who are at this point mainly emotionless psychopaths, roaming the areas in large gangs or tribes. Eventually the most successful of these groups will again settle somewhere and reestablish some form of society.

Anyone who thinks they can stand against such a situation alone, or even in a small group is deluding themselves. I don’t care if you are the most badass marine that ever walked the planet, eventually you will need outside help, expertise, you’ll get sick, hurt, get an infection, break a bone, run out of ammo/equipment, important equipment will break down, or outsiders will simply grind you down until they take what they want from you. Oh... and the gangs that you will encounter will most likely be large, well armed, hungry, ruthless, and quite battle hardened by the time they get to your "no trespassing" sign and lone shotgun.

edit on 4/23/2011 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)

I agree with most all you have stated here, another post here talks about gov. contractors..ie xe former blackwater...wow, who do you think has worked for these companies and has friends that are currently working for them? The problem with most people is they think they know what we are like and how we all think...guess again...what and how much of it I have is my buisness.
The gangs that are traveling out of the city in the event cannot check or find everything...also go 30 miles out of a city and see how long even in a full blown war how long it takes to go house to house clearing room by room to secure the area, in a 360 and you will find that the hundreds of thousands of people it takes to do that is just unrealistic...take Iraq and a large city...how many marines in 2004 did it take to go door to door to clear the city? How many marines were used in that? how will the gangs get resupplied?..plus they will be fighting eachother over turf wars and for street ownership, so there will be less ammo and less members to fight against by the time they find there way out into the sticks or state parks, national forests.
How much weight is on there back? they have no gas and would be on foot. If they travel 20 miles a day and came straight to me...it would still take them a good 3 weeks walking to get to me, plus they have to make it through hundreds of farmers that will be thinking and doing many of the same things as me and my group of friends...so could they make it there? Sure but I think that the numbers will be very small, and the noise from shooting will not be heard...due to the fact that we all have cans...aka silencers as you non trained people would call them...oh and what about reloading ammo, sub-sonic ammo and how many rounds do I have? and how much food and water and how big of a garden and how much livestock is there?
You might get me but you will have earned every bite and drink that you would get....lol...what if I ruin the water suppy if I think we are going to get over run and killed?...and that you would never know until its to late, so in a way I kinda take you wih me...
People need to think outside of the box...and get better plans and prepare.

reply to post by EyesWideShut


I am glad that you are able to get wifey on board, do what you can and there are others out there that are in the same boat so to speak...keeping a level head will be key.
SEMPER FI BROTHER.

I think the title could be changed appropriately to "All of you need to think a little better"

There's no ending our quest for knowledge, there can't be.

I hate breaking the cold hard facts, but by my estimation the soloist has a 25-35% survival in a massive situation. That is laying the best preparations of plans, location and gear. The soloist has 2 major enemies: Environment and other people. Now everyone else has to battle those two enemies, but the soloist has to shoulder it alone.

A case of the flu, eating diseased meat, misidentifying a plant that was thought to be edible or just personal allergic reaction, improperly purified water, sprained ankle...many factors can come into play here that can put you out of commission or a very weakened state for a few days to a week. Each and everyone of those things makes you vulnerable to the two enemies.

The final enemy to the soloist is long term isolation. Humans by nature are social creatures that operate most efficiently in small groups. By having one person forage and check traps while another fishes or hunts increases your odds. Having a third to protect the camp, make day to day repairs, tend the crops expands the odds once again. And at day's end, social interaction around the camp turns overall morale from survival to living. Again increasing overall odds. And in dealing with the second enemy, the soloist is most vulnerable while sleeping.

Never underestimate a human's random luck. I have personally discovered the rusted out remains of an old car (possibly a Model T) in the middle of the woods, the partial remains of a stone foundation for what may have been a log cabin at one time, a stonework dam of a stream that looked to have been done at least in the 1930's if not sometime in the late 1800's. And the oddest of all, the location of what might have been an ancient Moundbuilding tribe's village while they were building the mound. With the exception of the dam, they were all within a state park. The dam was within 4 miles of the park's border. Being free to roam the countryside, there is no telling what I could run across. And yes, I often walk up on bedded down deer without trying. I am that quiet in the woods, but that is another story.

Point is, there is safety in numbers, although the benefits always have to weighed against the extra cost of food and inner party strife. Which are the only advantages that a soloist has. But consider that the most dangerous of situations that will occur is two soloists encountering one another. And then double or triple the danger factor if one is male and the other female. Her thought of the male is automatically to be defensive and probably aggressively so despite the male's appearance, motions and intentions. Personally, I would rather run into a bobcat that felt cornered.

One thing is jumping out here at ATS on several threads..."run for the hills".....just don't. Don't. The "your" I am using is nobody in particular...just city dwellers. So please don't take offense. We live in the hills because your municipal regulations, your "lifestyles", your taxes, and your rat race hectic pace do not fit our "lifestyle". When and if the SHTF you think we're going to bail you out and welcome you to our self sufficient homesteads with open arms and put you up like lodgers in a five star hotel? Think we're going to just roll over and let you take what we've worked for and generations of our families have worked for? Um.......NO!

Now that's out of the way......................

A little perspective from a country boy retired Army point of view...(just jerking the jarheads' chains...we both bleed red white and blue)

But I digress.......

For the first 120 days or so the cities will likely become war zones with mass death and destruction and territorial wars between rival gangs and warlords until they force control. Those who make it out of the cities early may survive the first couple of weeks if they have or loot supplies. Those that stay will probably be roadblocked in by a warlord upon trying to leave or be killed for what they have to begin with. Thinking that you can raid the local Wal-Mart for what you need is high on the dumb move list. Too many others have the same idea. Think day after Thanksgiving times 100. Ever look in the warehouse of a grocery store? They use a "just in time" delivery system so they keep a bare minimum of stock on hand.

You want to head for the hills? Go to a state or national forest and starve to death. Get yourself to a coast and get a sailboat, some fishing/crabbing gear, and sail away for six months. More food in the sea than on land. With so many folks saying they'll just live off the land the land won't support them. Think about it a minute. Let's just survey 10 acres of land. If the conditions are right there should be 8-15 rabbits, the same squirrels, a few wild edibles, and maybe a deer wandering through every day or two. Put some city folks there trying to survive and the food's gone in two days (either killed or scared off). Then you starve.

An idea would be to read One Second After and Patriots.

Unlike you guys I don't have big mountains or woods to run off to I've lived by and with the sea all my life.. so I'll be taking to blue waters in a Cat.. I know more about that than about survival skills in some forest or other such situation..

reply to post by HappyHermit


I have to agree with the idea of sailing off for 6 months.. since that is what I'd do.. it still takes some skill and knowledge to survive at sea.. but I do feel your right that the survival odds are better..

Originally posted by HappyHermit
One thing is jumping out here at ATS on several threads..."run for the hills".....just don't. Don't. The "your" I am using is nobody in particular...just city dwellers. So please don't take offense. We live in the hills because your municipal regulations, your "lifestyles", your taxes, and your rat race hectic pace do not fit our "lifestyle". When and if the SHTF you think we're going to bail you out and welcome you to our self sufficient homesteads with open arms and put you up like lodgers in a five star hotel? Think we're going to just roll over and let you take what we've worked for and generations of our families have worked for? Um.......NO!

Now that's out of the way......................

A little perspective from a country boy retired Army point of view...(just jerking the jarheads' chains...we both bleed red white and blue)

But I digress.......

For the first 120 days or so the cities will likely become war zones with mass death and destruction and territorial wars between rival gangs and warlords until they force control. Those who make it out of the cities early may survive the first couple of weeks if they have or loot supplies. Those that stay will probably be roadblocked in by a warlord upon trying to leave or be killed for what they have to begin with. Thinking that you can raid the local Wal-Mart for what you need is high on the dumb move list. Too many others have the same idea. Think day after Thanksgiving times 100. Ever look in the warehouse of a grocery store? They use a "just in time" delivery system so they keep a bare minimum of stock on hand.

You want to head for the hills? Go to a state or national forest and starve to death. Get yourself to a coast and get a sailboat, some fishing/crabbing gear, and sail away for six months. More food in the sea than on land. With so many folks saying they'll just live off the land the land won't support them. Think about it a minute. Let's just survey 10 acres of land. If the conditions are right there should be 8-15 rabbits, the same squirrels, a few wild edibles, and maybe a deer wandering through every day or two. Put some city folks there trying to survive and the food's gone in two days (either killed or scared off). Then you starve.

An idea would be to read One Second After and Patriots.

well if you're not willing to help then i'll fend for myself in the city. who's to say i can't become the most ruthless warlord, since i might as well just give up anyway by your logic.

seriously? you wouldnt help people who needed it? the least you could do is teach them how to do it themself if they made it that far and were willing to start over their lives to live nicely like you. some people arent fortunate enough to have the foresight to even see the possibility of such things occuring in life let alone in their lifetime. so they will have to learn the hard way when the time comes, but learn nonetheless.

i'll join one of the marauding gangs of post apocalypse u.s.a and drive around in a heavily modified pick up with a mini gun picking on lonely travelers on the highway and stealing whats in their shopping carts.

or i'll be one of the good guys and drift from town to town and wiping out the bad guys with my sawed off double barrel shotgun.

i haven't decided yet.

or i'll go to south america, because the sh-t never hits the fan there.

I want to thank everyone for one of the best threads that I've read in a long, long time. A lot of what I've been war gaming has been discussed here. Excellent thread.

I have to agree with a lot of what has been written here with only one thing to add. Every single situation is different. What you do depends on that situation. And I'm surprised nobody else has said it: A good plan lasts until contact with the enemy.

Earlier today I was working on my supplies for opening our bug out place for the summer and I started thinking that I'm so far behind in what I need to do it's sad. Argh. So little time, so little dollar value.