Some of you need to think a little better

Originally posted by billxam
I want to thank everyone for one of the best threads that I've read in a long, long time. A lot of what I've been war gaming has been discussed here. Excellent thread.

I have to agree with a lot of what has been written here with only one thing to add. Every single situation is different. What you do depends on that situation. And I'm surprised nobody else has said it: A good plan lasts until contact with the enemy.

Earlier today I was working on my supplies for opening our bug out place for the summer and I started thinking that I'm so far behind in what I need to do it's sad. Argh. So little time, so little dollar value.

I said it. Worded it differently but it's the same point.

As has been mentioned on this forum before, every situation is different. A war, police state, or military coup is the least of my worries. If we're talking about a super volcano, or earthquakes, or a meteor strike no home within range of the rain of ash or destruction that follows will remain a good "hunker down" spot, and this circle of destruction will only grow over the weeks. You may have a garden and a waterwell, but within days your crops will be dead and your water undrinkable. You people with your "self sufficient homes" will have to brave the roads right along side the thousands of other survivors who've had to embark on an exodus from the cities and rural communities. You'll head for the oceans because the rivers and lakes are acidic, you'll head deeper into the wilds chasing the game that is fleeing the ever shrinking sun light. Within a week the store shelves will be completely empty of everything, including electronics (go figure), and electricity will gone indefinitely. Those living within 50-100 miles downwind from a nuclear plant might want to think about moving first. Radiation is invisible and has no smell. You'll be dying before you even no there's a threat. Within a month, the average temperature of the Earth will have risen several degrees because of the burning ash in the atmosphere, but once the sun can no longer penetrate and the ash cools, the temperature will begin to drop. Rivers and lakes will freeze, the cooling oceans will begin to freeze and rise, crops will die, animals will starve, and people will convert to cannibalism. Those lucky enough to survive in bunkers 2 miles beneath the earth's surface will be living in Hell for a minimum of 5 years (the time it'll take for most of the ash to clear and the sun to reappear). It'll be another 20 years atleast before we see a thawing. Those left on the surface will suffer respiratory problems, and likely problems with their eyes due to the low light and particles in the air.
In short; unless there's an EMP, or a viral outbreak, most of you hardcore veteran "survivors" won't be staying in your perfectly stocked homes for long. You'll be out with the rest of humanity, forced to steal, kill or trade for what you need. If there is a Military coup or war, you may stay off the threat by killing a scout or two, but once they realize your threat, they'll just burn your house down with you inside. Nothing is "too far out of the way" in the days of satellite thermal tracking. For that matter, anyone looking for someone hiding out in a house out of the way, all they have to do is follow the electric, cable or phone wires. The fact that you're writing on this site means you have atleast two of these wires running to your home. And the person following these wires has an advantage. They'll know you're there long before you'll learn they're there. They'll watch you for days, learning your routines; when you get water, when you dump your $h!t, when you collect eggs, or patrol your grounds. I mentioned this before on another forum about an "secure home"; nothing is 100% secure if the person doing to the breaking in is inventive and innovative enough, not even those bunkers for the elite in Colorado. You'd fair much better becoming a teacher to those unequiped with the knowledge of survival than you would coming across as possessive and greedy. Teach a man to fish.....

I honestly don't have a plan...and am unsure of where to even start in making one. We are a family of five...luckily for me I have a husband and 3 sons that can hopefully do any heavy lifting or dirty work...although I'm not afraid to get dirty and am quite capable myself. But I just don't know where I'd go...if anywhere, or what are important items to have on hand.

I am on the fence as to whether or not it would even be necessary but definitely don't want to be left saying "if only....."

Michelle

there will be plenty of sources of food and shelter for those that are willing to think a little. pets are hugely popular in America; pet supply stores will have a nice supply of nutrition that will keep you alive. if people run amuck and abandon their posts at hospitals, convalescent homes and prisons there will be lots of flesh to BBQ, that will fill your stomach too.

there are a lot of towns that use to be mining areas. abandoned mines can provide shelter and possibly a water source.

gated secure communities where the elite wealthy live may be a good target too. people that have dedicated their lives to making money may be lacking in survival & self defense skills, so an aggressive person could take control of these people and their pantry.

large corporations that have their own cafeterias may have canned & frozen food in great abundance. you can eat well and roam the campus where people use to slave away for the tax man while pondering what a waste that was.

as one poster mentioned, no matter how well stocked in you are with foods & firearms, it won't last forever, especially if you are targeted by people who know what they are doing. plan ahead with people you know to group together. define your territory and have posts manned to observe for incoming unwanted. with vigilance and luck you may be able to fend off unwanted outsiders while maintaining your garden in the inner portion of your territory.

You people are crazy for thinking anything will ever happen. If something does happen the government will be there to hand out food, water & medicine.

"IF" something does happen and the government don't come through and help for some reason then I will just bug out to the mountains with everybody else and live off the land.

Even though I have never lived outside of the city, hunted, fished or grown a garden and roughing it for me means being in a dead spot where I don't get a cell signal......

I can catch everything I need to live off the land and if for some reason there isn't anything to catch I can just steal or loot it from other people.....

Yeah, That just about sums up how too many people think.

I think that for people who are prepared mentally and gear wise there will be a lot of good stuff just lying around free for the taking after a month..... If you don't mind the dead people lying next to it.

reply to post by mwood


The thing that worries me the most about the resources in a situation like that is; have you ever heard the story about the Romans who surrounded the Jewish city during an attack. The Romans only had enough supplies to sustain a six month seige of the city. The Jews had 3 years worth of supplies. All the Jews had to do was wait out the Romans, who couldn't penetrate their walls, and they'd of been fine, but due to warring families and paranoia, they ran dry of food and water within 4 months. Most of it lost through waste due to an "if I can't have it, no one will" mentality.

The same thing will happen should a bad situation happen globally. I've already read posts on this very forum where it was mentioned that if anyone came for their waterwell, they'd poison it. No concern for anyone else who may already be sharing that underground water supply, or the eco system its connected to. People, out of spite, will burn food supplies, people will feast instead of ration, and in the end millions will pay for this foolishness. Malice will be our greatest undoing.

reply to post by HappyHermit


I could agree with you..on your post, and it all depends on what the event is, on how long the people stay in the city...once they run out of food and water, and the sewage starts to back up, because of no power, then you will see a mass movement out of that area...
By then everyone in the country will be settled in and the gangs will have a strong hold on there turf, and it will be like oh say somalia in the 1990's with warloards and areas of control, It would be like that in all cities I believe, and if you are lucky enough to make it out of the city, you have just scratched the surface of the skills your going to need to survive from there on out.

reply to post by yourmaker


You might help people but you have to remember that most people are only about 3 days of no food or 2 days of no water from being a very nasty individual...the true colors of folks come out when they are under that kind of stress.
For you own safety and that of your family, I would not advertise to anyone anything...I would want to blend in as best I could and fade away from there thoughts, so I could get out and be safer.

Originally posted by billxam
I want to thank everyone for one of the best threads that I've read in a long, long time. A lot of what I've been war gaming has been discussed here. Excellent thread.

I have to agree with a lot of what has been written here with only one thing to add. Every single situation is different. What you do depends on that situation. And I'm surprised nobody else has said it: A good plan lasts until contact with the enemy.

Earlier today I was working on my supplies for opening our bug out place for the summer and I started thinking that I'm so far behind in what I need to do it's sad. Argh. So little time, so little dollar value.

Thanks and I am glad someone is getting something out of it....

I have several plans and every plan in modified on the fly to get the final result...I have plans but they are more like goals, that way you can change or modify it for the situation, but you end up at the same place in the end, you just might have to side step or back track to get there.
Good point, your thinking and thats what this tread is ment to do for many of you....some of us agree on different levels and thats good it makes you think, and use your head for something other than a hat rack.

reply to post by Mactire


I disagree, if I have to leave then it would be many months after it happened and If you have water stored and can catch it, and purify it you can get by a long time...my last thing I want to do is bugout, your most vonerable when you do that...you leave the stocks of food gas guns ammo and supplies that you have to go out and live off of the things natures provides and what you can carry on your back...with everyone killing all the game or running it off, you wouldn't have much to collect from nature...so I am best to stay put.

Originally posted by mwood

You people are crazy for thinking anything will ever happen. If something does happen the government will be there to hand out food, water & medicine.

"IF" something does happen and the government don't come through and help for some reason then I will just bug out to the mountains with everybody else and live off the land.

Even though I have never lived outside of the city, hunted, fished or grown a garden and roughing it for me means being in a dead spot where I don't get a cell signal......

I can catch everything I need to live off the land and if for some reason there isn't anything to catch I can just steal or loot it from other people.....

Yeah, That just about sums up how too many people think.

I think that for people who are prepared mentally and gear wise there will be a lot of good stuff just lying around free for the taking after a month..... If you don't mind the dead people lying next to it.

WELL SAID...most have no knowledge of outdoor survival and think they are just going to get it because they are spoiled and brought up that way...sorry to bust your bubbles there kiddo's....it will be like christmas in the streets...all you guys and gals out there go buy all the cool neat survival gear and get ready, cuz a month or 2 after it happens I might wanna get some newer gear that doesn't have so many blood stains on it.

Originally posted by saltdog
just remember if TSHTF and you are on my land...if you can read MY signs on MY land...your in range and I don't ask questions.

if you think like this that's what you'll get no worries

(maniac)

reply to post by saltdog


Some will stay, some will leave, but when the ash starts falling, you may want to side-step the direction the wind is carrying it, unless you want to be a statue, like those poor bastards from Pompeii. The weight of that ash will collapse rooftops, and make bunker entrances unopenable from the inside, trapping the foolish saps within. Best to throw on a heavy coat and a gas mask, pack some heat and move to a heavy structure (IE> place that can withstand tons of weight bearing down on its roof; a parking deck, cave, a river-side drainpipe, etc)

Ash of this magnitude is a symptom of a couple of different disasters: Volcanoes (super or normal), as well as comet and/or meteor strikes.

Originally posted by XmikaX

Originally posted by saltdog
just remember if TSHTF and you are on my land...if you can read MY signs on MY land...your in range and I don't ask questions.

if you think like this that's what you'll get no worries

(maniac)

You think how you want to think...its only your life you have to protect...if they are taking your food, they are stealing, if they are on your land taking your things(food,water,tools and equipment)...those are your life blood in a survival situation. I guess you would let your family starve since your not man enough or brave enough to stop them from stealing...go ahead and confront them, get outnumbered and over ran...my way they have no Idea how many are there and they just get gone.

Originally posted by rebeldog
a single sniper can keep a platoon at bay..

2 or 3 well positioned snipers can take out a hundred of refugees easily..

Or take down another sniper. Depending on who and why he is coming for you you may not have that much advantage over them.

Also I think many would shy away from a place with signs unless they have no choice. If you get them first it may be better than starving to death and if they get the drop on you then...nah that would never happen.

There will be no government help.....the government will be tracking you with satellites and teams of armed soldiers who want to kill you....people will be rioting in the streets...the streets will be empty cause everyone is dead....there will be heavy ash falling from the sky burying and killing all.....there will be radiation poisoning and nuclear winter.... does it occur to anyone that you sound like a bunch of wackos? It is obvious that no one has the slightest clue WTF they are even preparing for! Get a grip,people! Yes the economy is rather crappy right now and the future looks a bit bleak in that regard, but it's not armageddon just yet. Having emergency supplies on hand is obviously a common sense move, since most everyone could potentially be affected by some local disaster or emergency. Being self-sufficient,or at least able to do most things for yourself is a wonderful thing and can save you money and give you a sense of security, so go for it. When you start speculating about how your going to defend yourself against snipers or mad-max gangs of rovering killers, it nothing but mental masturbation. There are such a vast number of scenarios and events that could "theoretically" take place that trying to prepare for each one is rediculous. We might as well start prepping for an alien invasion, imagining what kind of weapons we'll need to resist these invaders or what kind of body armour we'll need to withstand their magical ray guns.
I love learning about self-sufficiency and survival, but the majority of the stuff discussed here is worse than useless. Seriously, learn to grow stuff and prepare your own food. It's not that hard, it's fun and it can save you money in the most likley event that no major SHTF event happens. Take some pistol/shotgun/rifle training if you like. Again, it's fun and can will help you in the much more plausible scenario of some meth head breaking into your house, even though that is statistically unlikely. Learn about generating your own power-could potentially save you money ndyou'll learn skills that can help you in day to day life.
What I see here is people mostly interested in wild specualtion about highly unliklely events,and how they would deal with them in equally implausible ways. Luckily, said events will almost certainly not come to pass, which is a good thing because it seems likley most would be dead in short order.

See most of us agree with you, I want to, however, have you seen a third world country when it was breaking down? Have you seen the violence in the streets toward someone because they were from the wrong family(clan)?
Have you seen the week get weeker while the strong get stronger and rule with an iron fist?
I have, it calms down but until it does there are so many unspeakable things that happen to people that it is sick.
I know not in america right...ok
how about Bosnia...mass murder for years in the mid 1990's was there
Somalia, clan/gang wars over the airport, port and shipping...to control the country..I was there.
Liberia, civil war, been fighting for several years now...I was there.
These are just a few examples that I have...I was there for them, this is not read information, or from tv or a movie....tv has you believe everything is ok...while back in the USA they show african women and kids starving, some were but many weight 200-300lbs and ate very well....they didn't show that on tv thought...not if they were asking for money from you...the ones starving were from a rival clan...wow

My point being, is it could never happen to us...we are to big to fail..right?
So was Russia in the 1980's right? There economy collapsed...partially because of there 10 year war in the middle east...hhmmm....nevermind.
I have absolutely nothing to base my thoughts or mindset on, other than I have seen it with my own eyes happen in more than 1 country... it seems we are headed for???
facts are facts, and history repeats itself, same stuff happens just to different countries...but you have nothing to worry about.

Your right, history does repeat itself, and no one is too big to fail. That is percisely why I am interested in survival and self sufficiency. Hyper inflation and food shortages are a real possibility,and that's something we can prepare for. It's the wild speculation,stated as fact, that gets me. If you read many of the posts, you'll see the statement "It will be...." or something similar. Fact is we don't know what will be. All we can do is take a rational and well thought out approach to the situation. Fear and paranoia seem to get the upper hand here all to often, along with all the Rambo fantasies.
My point is simply this- we could all help each other and learn thing,practical and useful things, if some semblance of reality is kept. Zombie defense threads are all in good fun, but lets not fool each other with all the tactical nonsense.
We are truly lucky to be living in the countries we do. We are not Somalia or Haiti or some other third world #hole. Yes, people can get vicious and downright cruel here too, but for the most part they have a sense of decency. Look at Japan; that was truly a SHTF situation for those people and yet they didn't go at each others throats the minute it happened. They helped each other out and did their best with what they had. I'd like to believe that most here would do the same.
We have options here, we can obsess and fantasize about worst case scenario's, arguing about who can kill whom first, or we can learn about practical and useful survival info. For the scenario's that we are by far most likely to see, it would be very useful to be able to garden,hunt/fish, can and preserve food and do basic mechanical and fabrication. However, those topics seem to get little traction here, but mention some sort of doomsday scenario and suddenly everyone's got some sort of nonsense to contribute.

reply to post by saltdog



"Your going to grab your bag and get to the mountains and forage for food...ok how are you getting there? "



walk? it's not like the mountians are some mystical land across the sea, I SEE mountians every damn day, I just have to cross the street and I'm IN the mountians.


eitherway, for all everyone's talk about preparing and staking a claim while shooting everyone who even glances at your equally useless claim of land as the ne their feet is resting on, it's a given things are going to be more like this when the end of the world comes:

www.youtube.com...

true,good and great.

some idiots here think they can turn into Chuck Norris and just shoot their way into life.
They almost HOPE,no,WISH for a SHTF scenario to happen so thei can just live their sick dream of murder and slaughter.

You do not just go back to the stone age. We are a "civilized" society,and we need each other.
If something shall arise out of a SHTF scenario is a sense of unity, not a shoot'em up society

Ah the word society.Live it,taste it,SOCIETY.COMMUNITY.