Some of you need to think a little better

reply to post by saltdog


you a paranoid maniac, i confirm;

i think, more and more, that usa is doomed, not because of tshtf, but because of how american people will reorganize themselves in a stateless zone : more or less like in "the road" movie if i read you guys : private property as the only god to worship, killing any stranger that approach it as the only value to drive your life.

if that's the best you can do in a shtf scenario, better you don't survive it in the first place with all those that thinks like you - which are the same than those that will steal you;

just let people that still have VALUES survive to create a new society based on cooperation and sharing (yes not all the world is brainwashed to think like a cowboy).

i can guarantee you that none of your horror movie scenarii will happen in most countries of Asia; not everyone is going to kill his neighbor for food or water. they'll mostly cooperate to survive and reorganize together

once again : the last chance of usa as a society is that all the selfish, psychopath, uneducated people thinking like you just die when tshtf, sorry but you are of no use for collective consciousness with your representations of the world; (you are of use with this frame of mind for tptb obviously, you're their product in fact)

Originally posted by Gren
reply to post by saltdog

 

"Your going to grab your bag and get to the mountains and forage for food...ok how are you getting there? "



walk? it's not like the mountians are some mystical land across the sea, I SEE mountians every damn day, I just have to cross the street and I'm IN the mountians.


eitherway, for all everyone's talk about preparing and staking a claim while shooting everyone who even glances at your equally useless claim of land as the ne their feet is resting on, it's a given things are going to be more like this when the end of the world comes:

www.youtube.com...

edit on 24-4-2011 by Gren because: hit enter too soon

Nope, but several others here are...I would only buggout as a last resort..read the posts and who wrote them all the way through...I started this tread and was busting on them just like you.

Originally posted by xxclaro
Your right, history does repeat itself, and no one is too big to fail. That is percisely why I am interested in survival and self sufficiency. Hyper inflation and food shortages are a real possibility,and that's something we can prepare for. It's the wild speculation,stated as fact, that gets me. If you read many of the posts, you'll see the statement "It will be...." or something similar. Fact is we don't know what will be. All we can do is take a rational and well thought out approach to the situation. Fear and paranoia seem to get the upper hand here all to often, along with all the Rambo fantasies.
My point is simply this- we could all help each other and learn thing,practical and useful things, if some semblance of reality is kept. Zombie defense threads are all in good fun, but lets not fool each other with all the tactical nonsense.
We are truly lucky to be living in the countries we do. We are not Somalia or Haiti or some other third world #hole. Yes, people can get vicious and downright cruel here too, but for the most part they have a sense of decency. Look at Japan; that was truly a SHTF situation for those people and yet they didn't go at each others throats the minute it happened. They helped each other out and did their best with what they had. I'd like to believe that most here would do the same.
We have options here, we can obsess and fantasize about worst case scenario's, arguing about who can kill whom first, or we can learn about practical and useful survival info. For the scenario's that we are by far most likely to see, it would be very useful to be able to garden,hunt/fish, can and preserve food and do basic mechanical and fabrication. However, those topics seem to get little traction here, but mention some sort of doomsday scenario and suddenly everyone's got some sort of nonsense to contribute.

Your right but you are forgetting about the people that have there hands out every month because they are to lazy to work and do for themselves, I am worried about them more than anything, they will be the ones you need to defend your home and supplies from, they will be the ones that are rioting when the economy crashes and they get no food stamps and no government assistance. That is how I see it all starting, the cops are overwhelmed already, now imagine that times 100 because they don't get there free money from the government.

Originally posted by XmikaX
reply to post by saltdog

 

you a paranoid maniac, i confirm;

i think, more and more, that usa is doomed, not because of tshtf, but because of how american people will reorganize themselves in a stateless zone : more or less like in "the road" movie if i read you guys : private property as the only god to worship, killing any stranger that approach it as the only value to drive your life.

if that's the best you can do in a shtf scenario, better you don't survive it in the first place with all those that thinks like you - which are the same than those that will steal you;

just let people that still have VALUES survive to create a new society based on cooperation and sharing (yes not all the world is brainwashed to think like a cowboy).

i can guarantee you that none of your horror movie scenarii will happen in most countries of Asia; not everyone is going to kill his neighbor for food or water. they'll mostly cooperate to survive and reorganize together

once again : the last chance of usa as a society is that all the selfish, psychopath, uneducated people thinking like you just die when tshtf, sorry but you are of no use for collective consciousness with your representations of the world; (you are of use with this frame of mind for tptb obviously, you're their product in fact)

edit on 24-4-2011 by XmikaX because: (no reason given)

You need to go back and read the posts again, I bring no ill will to anyone, however I will not just give away my things to the thieves that want to take them from me...I would and will fight for my family and what is mine...if your to spinless to do that so be it...you can do as you wish, I am simply responding to the others that think they will run to the hills and steal from all the people that are there and in the way of them getting to where they are going...
Life is not all sunshine rainbows and lolilipops....some of us have seen it and have an idea of what to expect, but many hear haven't and are in movie land or wishing for it, I don't...it would be a living hell.

Originally posted by XmikaX
reply to post by saltdog

 

you a paranoid maniac, i confirm;

i think, more and more, that usa is doomed, not because of tshtf, but because of how american people will reorganize themselves in a stateless zone : more or less like in "the road" movie if i read you guys : private property as the only god to worship, killing any stranger that approach it as the only value to drive your life.

if that's the best you can do in a shtf scenario, better you don't survive it in the first place with all those that thinks like you - which are the same than those that will steal you;

just let people that still have VALUES survive to create a new society based on cooperation and sharing (yes not all the world is brainwashed to think like a cowboy).

i can guarantee you that none of your horror movie scenarii will happen in most countries of Asia; not everyone is going to kill his neighbor for food or water. they'll mostly cooperate to survive and reorganize together

once again : the last chance of usa as a society is that all the selfish, psychopath, uneducated people thinking like you just die when tshtf, sorry but you are of no use for collective consciousness with your representations of the world; (you are of use with this frame of mind for tptb obviously, you're their product in fact)

edit on 24-4-2011 by XmikaX because: (no reason given)

I agree with you. Most Americans will react like those in the movie "The Road"...they will be paranoid of anyone that shows them any kind of kindness, figuring that "everyone" is out to take whatever they have left. But there are those of us that will still try. Kindness is not a sign of weakness...kindness is a sign of wisdom.

There was a line in the film..."Do you have the fire? Are you one of the good guys?" that said it all. My faith in mankind is quite fragile but I would, and hope that there would be more with the fire that was one of the good guys, than reducing ourselves to nothing much above animalistic cannibals. For if that was all mankind had in them...then they would deserve all that had/would happen to them.

Think before you make your choices...has to work NOW...not just later.

To directly answer the question placed to me.......

Nope, that would be a time of survival and security for me and my family. I'm not going to take in anybody that already doesn't have an invitation and I ain't running no nursery school for the unprepared. There are still free public libraries in cities with books full of good information.

Yes the sewers will back up in cities, but most of the cities near a waterway dump their treated "safe" sewer water into that river to flow downstream. Just google search sewer spill and see how many dump raw sewage into streams and rivers by "accident". So there's two strikes for urban dwellers and just being at the coast and not sailing. I have a buddy that put in a shutoff valve on his sewer line just in case the town backed up. Don't think the town would approve, but they don't know about it. I really feel for first floor apartment dwellers if something happens. Sewage would be coming at them from both ends.

As far as having to leave the self-sufficient homestead and fall into the mass wandering drift of the horde, I have been here for 35-40 days without leaving for anything and then it was because we felt like having a pizza from the joint in town.

Prior Proper Planning Prevents P--- Poor Performance.

And someone mentioned the loner or extremely small group being at a disadvantage. Yes, to a point they are. But force multipliers and forced lines of movement and drift for incoming threats can help a four person hideaway act like an 8-12 person hideaway and a prepared and skilled dozen people can hold off a remote area fom attack by 30 or more less prepared and emotionally charged attackers.

More peace of mind comes by, if possible, living far away from main lines of drift like interstates, U.S. routes, main roads between small towns, too. It's been suggested by several "experts" on the matter that living off a side road from a side road with only one access to a through road that accesses a main travel road several miles away is the safest bet. So if you live 3 miles from I-95 then expect unwanted guests, but if you live 10 miles up a dirt road with a 20 mile drive to the nearest town, population 400, then you may never know there's a big problem in the word unless the sky turns green and ash falls.

Some real deal knowledge. (And no its not coming from me. its an accumulation that is field tested from many sources. No one has that many lifetimes to put it all together.I know I certainly didnt. I researched and then tested)

Rule of 3s:
3 minutes without air.
3 days without water.
3 weeks without food.

Add to this:
3 months before major violence begins to subside.
3 years before towns and cities with order re-establish

Most real survivalists go back to the beginning with flint knapping. This ensures they can function from nothing. But in truth, there was an age before stone that no evidence exists from. Bone and Antler. Learn to find and cut straight shafts. Spark fires from stones, or with a firebow. Make wooden spears with wooden points. Learn to harden the ends with fire. Make 3-4. Make one huge thick one to lodge to the ground and throw off animal attacks. Learn to weave fish and crawfish traps. Learn to build dug out fish traps and learn to build weirs. Learn to build deadfalls. Learn to build spike pits. Learn to build spiked hollow traps.learn every season of greens and available plant foods and their seasons. Learn to smoke and dry meat and fish. Learn to collect water from foliage and dew from fields.

Then and only then can you take a bug out bag and add all of the things that will ensure survival, and make it.

Add your axe, spare knives and saws, bulk cordage, fire piston, bags of salt and spices, fat can, tinder safe, hooks and line for trots, cordage and wire for snares.......

If you really care....... you can learn it. If you dont, just live the fantasy and die like the rest if that time comes. I can step over your bones.... Or if I find you alive, you have just a little while to learn before I move on.

Originally posted by Shadowalker
Some real deal knowledge. (And no its not coming from me. its an accumulation that is field tested from many sources. No one has that many lifetimes to put it all together.I know I certainly didnt. I researched and then tested)

Rule of 3s:
3 minutes without air.
3 days without water.
3 weeks without food.

Add to this:
3 months before major violence begins to subside.
3 years before towns and cities with order re-establish

Most real survivalists go back to the beginning with flint knapping. This ensures they can function from nothing. But in truth, there was an age before stone that no evidence exists from. Bone and Antler. Learn to find and cut straight shafts. Spark fires from stones, or with a firebow. Make wooden spears with wooden points. Learn to harden the ends with fire. Make 3-4. Make one huge thick one to lodge to the ground and throw off animal attacks. Learn to weave fish and crawfish traps. Learn to build dug out fish traps and learn to build weirs. Learn to build deadfalls. Learn to build spike pits. Learn to build spiked hollow traps.learn every season of greens and available plant foods and their seasons. Learn to smoke and dry meat and fish. Learn to collect water from foliage and dew from fields.

Then and only then can you take a bug out bag and add all of the things that will ensure survival, and make it.

Add your axe, spare knives and saws, bulk cordage, fire piston, bags of salt and spices, fat can, tinder safe, hooks and line for trots, cordage and wire for snares.......

If you really care....... you can learn it. If you dont, just live the fantasy and die like the rest if that time comes. I can step over your bones.... Or if I find you alive, you have just a little while to learn before I move on.

Oh,where to start? Okay. lets start at the beginning-3 months till violence dies down,3 years till order re-established. After what imaginery scenario,pray tell? What exactly happened that destroyed the whole country to the point where there will be no order for three years? Any why 3 years? Why not 4,or 5 or 5'0000? Okay, lets keep running with your scenario a little,just for fun.
Making tools from antler and bone,rather than stone or.......metal? WTF for? Are stones going to dissapear after SHTF? Maybe everyone used up all the stones in their slingshots in the first couple years? Maybe the roving gangs of mad max killers have seized the stone trade, and all we have left is wood and antler? GHow about good ol' steel? It's everywhere. Yuo can barely find a place on the earth where there isn't some sort of scrap metal around,and I think you'll find it easier to work than stone and far superior to wood and antler in every respect., Best of all, you won't even have to fire-harden it,cause it's already hard! How awesome is that! You could temper it some if you got skills, but it'll be okay as is.
So you want one huge spear to throw off animal attacks,huh? Come to think of it, I do believe I've seen that scenario played out in a couple B-movies, where the bear(it always a bear) conveniently rears up on its hind legs to pounce on you ,thus letting you plant your giant spear in the ground,and let said clumsy and stupid animal impale itself on your spear. I'd rather have a spear than my bare hands,but even in the worst case scenario you could have a steel tip on it. And if a grizz decides you need a good thrashing, you'll get it,spear or no. I don't think many people have seen a bear move when it's really motivated. It's one thing to read that they can do 35mph, but you don't really get it till you see it. It is freakishly fast, and there is usually mere split seconds to react.
No issue's with building traps,it's a fun project at least. At least there's that little corn of sense in an otherwise steaming pile of crap. I think the people with the common sense to use the best and most modern materials and tools available would stand a far better chance of stepping over your bones.And your giant wooden firehardened spear.

I seem to see that we have some people that tend to disagree with some others..great, this is what this is for, right wrong ...it doesn't matter, it gets you to think...some are idiots...some are very smart, and some are very smart idiots...
The cold hard fact about all of this..is if your posting here your interested in the tread and you have an opinion for the hive...outstanding.
Will we ever see a SHTF of global status?...don't know...the key is to be ready, ready for what you feel is likely to disrupt you and yours from a normal daily activities....we don't know what the SHTF will be...we just guess, and prep accordingly...
I hope that you all can re-read the tread and try to keep it on track and not get off on some wild crazy speculation of what is or isn't going to happen, there are thousands of possible outcomes and we cannot be ready for them all...you can just be as ready as you can be for you and yours.

reply to post by xxclaro


Slow down there friend. I suggest you re-read from the beginning and think. Do some searches in this forum. Everything there is valid. The times come from the recent shows via the history channel. Not being familiar with those tells me you need to set the dvr and watch them. The event can be anything from solar CME to EMP or any of the common others.

At no point did I suggest you not have the highest quality equipment from the start. I merely made suggestions on the things to learn so when you wake up and find you were robbed of your gear....or are just robbed at gunpoint and left with nothing, well you have at least enough knowledge to live until you can collect more. Bears? hmm... I didnt name a specific animal but your going to have trouble from wild pigs, and coyote/wild dog packs long before any bears. Most people never develop the skills to make stone tools. Its far easier to fashion from wood, and shattered bone and antler with just sharp stones to work with.

But.....Your canoe or boat will never tip over, you will never return to find your things stolen, never be held up and left with nothing. Some people never lose their knife or fire steel in the brush. They just lead charmed lives.

reply to post by xxclaro


Slow down there friend. I suggest you re-read from the beginning and think. Do some searches in this forum. Everything there is valid. The times come from the recent shows via the history channel. Not being familiar with those tells me you need to set the dvr and watch them. The event can be anything from solar CME to EMP or any of the common others.

At no point did I suggest you not have the highest quality equipment from the start. I merely made suggestions on the things to learn so when you wake up and find you were robbed of your gear....or are just robbed at gunpoint and left with nothing, well you have at least enough knowledge to live until you can collect more. Bears? hmm... I didnt name a specific animal but your going to have trouble from wild pigs, and coyote/wild dog packs long before any bears. Most people never develop the skills to make stone tools. Its far easier to fashion from wood, and shattered bone and antler with just sharp stones to work with.

But.....Your canoe or boat will never tip over, you will never return to find your things stolen, never be held up and left with nothing. Some people never lose their knife or fire steel in the brush. They just lead charmed lives.

reply to post by xxclaro


Slow down there friend. I suggest you re-read from the beginning and think. Do some searches in this forum. Everything there is valid. The times come from the recent shows via the history channel. Not being familiar with those tells me you need to set the dvr and watch them. The event can be anything from solar CME to EMP or any of the common others.

At no point did I suggest you not have the highest quality equipment from the start. I merely made suggestions on the things to learn so when you wake up and find you were robbed of your gear....or are just robbed at gunpoint and left with nothing, well you have at least enough knowledge to live until you can collect more. Bears? hmm... I didnt name a specific animal but your going to have trouble from wild pigs, and coyote/wild dog packs long before any bears. Most people never develop the skills to make stone tools. Its far easier to fashion from wood, and shattered bone and antler with just sharp stones to work with.

But.....Your canoe or boat will never tip over, you will never return to find your things stolen, never be held up and left with nothing. Some people never lose their knife or fire steel in the brush. They just lead charmed lives.

Fair 'nough.

Suppose one can never have too many skills,even if you never find yourself in need of them.

reply to post by Shadowalker


Shadowalker i think you make so excellent points about having abilities to live in the wild. i became aware of the importance of preparation not so long ago, and began to make lists and seek information that i may need in the future that will no longer be available at the press of a PC 'on' button.

after downloading an old book that holds a plethora of information on how things were done to survive by most folks 100-150 years ago i realized i was at a great disadvantage. i was alarmed by the huge amount of things i did not know. And disturbed from realizing the huge difference between (for example) reading how-to and actually being able to craft a snare line, catch & kill an animal, dress it and cook it over a fire i started.

good grief! especially under great stress of catastrophe, removed from my easy snack-filled life and hungry, so hungry it hurts. i was not raised in a woodsy environment by parents who lived off the land. like many Americans i was raised by a secretary and a factory worker. my sweet Mom taught me to hunt for bargains in the old A&P Supermarket and all about cooking in a 1940's kitchen full of handy helpful tools. my wonderful Dad taught me all the things i would need to know to one day fix darn near anything that needed fixing around my very own house or garage.

i think you are right: Learn the basics, learn them now. Be Prepared, just like they taught us in Boy Scouts. i've found there is a plethora of tasty advice, links and info in past Survival Forum posts, now is the time to do some research. prepare, educate yourself, learn skills.

i've noticed in life that professional magicians can do incredible stunts with even a worn-out, thick old deck of cards others have trouble simply shuffling. same thing too for a talented musician, they will coax beautiful sounds from a cheap instrument while a beginner gets frustrated at their own noise. while it is fun to have the latest & greatest gadgets, it's still a real good idea to know how to get by with little to nothing at all. TS can HTF anytime, anywhere, and if you are good to go where you stand you have a greater probability of surviving while others suffer and starve.