Supporters plan Leavenworth rally for WikiLeaks soldier

reply to post by PsykoOps


100% agreed. As Ron Paul once said on the Senate floor, how many people have died due to wikileaks?

And how many people have died due to the illegal and unconstitutional wars?

Case closed.

reply to post by macman


FINALLY....someone who sees this for WHAT IT IS, a CRIME

Thumbs up Brother!

reply to post by macman

reply to post by purplemer

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You and I have had discussions on this very topic. Good to see you again. Hope all is well for you.
While he may be a patriot, he is still subject to the rules and laws in place for military members.

macman, part of the entire issue from where I see it is that there is a double standard of rules and laws in place. My spouse is a military veteran and has suffered extreme psychological damage as a result of his experiences in that venue. For people behind doors to dream up "strategeries" that leave the entire planet vulnerable to destruction and a quality of life that is dubious at best seems to me to be vile and unethical and should be against the rules and laws of HUMANITY.

If all the moles and rats were flooded out of their hidey-holes, and the enemy was stripped nekkid for the world's populace to see, their worst plans laid bare, their most clever tactics shouted out the world over, would that not bring some much-needed peace of mind, and peace on earth as well??

SECRETS ARE BAD.
They are a fact of life for every one of us, but bad. Like poison.

Originally posted by HomerinNC
reply to post by macman

 

FINALLY....someone who sees this for WHAT IT IS, a CRIME

Thumbs up Brother!

And what crime might that be? I asked before on this thread and still haven't received and answer?

reply to post by Whereweheaded


He was charged in July that year with transferring classified data onto his personal computer, and communicating national defense information to an unauthorized source (wikilinks)

He was charged on July 5 under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) with violations of UCMJ Articles 92 and 134 for "transferring classified data onto his personal computer and adding unauthorized software to a classified computer system in connection with the leaking of a video of a helicopter attack in Iraq in 2007," and "communicating, transmitting and delivering national defense information to an unauthorized source and disclosing classified information concerning the national defense with reason to believe that the information could cause injury to the United States," between November 19, 2009, and May 27, 2010

Originally posted by HomerinNC
reply to post by Whereweheaded

 

He was charged in July that year with transferring classified data onto his personal computer, and communicating national defense information to an unauthorized source (wikilinks)

That is a " charge", but no ' crime " has been identified. Charging someone, and declaring a charge because of a specific/identifiable crime are two different ball games.

ETA: when a cop detains you, are you arrested? No, thats the point, there is a difference between detained and arrested, just like there is a difference between charged, and charged with a specific crime.

All we have heard is what our oh so truthful USG has said. And you buy it?

reply to post by Whereweheaded


He was CHARGED, like any other suspect, he is CHARGED with a crime, and those charges hold til he is either found guilty or innocent, like in any other criminal proceeding

I agree with Whereweheaded - could you "crime" labellers please delineate the crime's exact statute?

(EDIT TO ADD: Thanks for having done that while I was writing this reply.)

I'm not ex-military, and I don't know what the military "rules and laws" are - I have heard him accused of treason, and I don't know the exact definition of that in modern terms. Probably some rule that if you're given top-secret clearance you sign a waiver that says "I promise not to tell anyone".

But, as I've oft quoted in my lifetime --

If you are aware of a problem or wrongdoing, and YOU DO NOTHING TO STOP IT........

wait for it.......

YOU BECOME PART OF THE PROBLEM.

To say that he's a criminal for exposing the truth is like a gang-banger leader putting a contract on a rival gang member's head for spilling the dirt on where the stash is. Or um, did anyone say, a fatwa and a jihad and sharia?

Anything so sinister it has to be covered up at all is probably not a good idea. WHAT is so hard about THAT to understand? Just because a guy with a big gun tells you he'll kill you if you tell on him??

No matter if Manning winds up on death row, or exile, or martyred, or whatever, he will go to his grave sooner or later with a clean conscious. It won't matter what ex-military members thought of him, not one iota. He will meet his maker knowing that he did something productive to end what he saw as wrong.

Courageous. If nothing else, he was courageous.

reply to post by wildtimes


Like mac said, whether or not it was the RIGHT thing to do, he did it WRONGLY, and there is WHERE the crime was committed.
A crime is a crime is a crime. You steal a loaf of bread to eat, youre guilty of theft. If youre starving, learn to fish.

reply to post by HomerinNC


Ok so if he was charged, answer me this. Do you think his actions are worse, than say ...oh I dunno, the Unconstitutional conditions that he was forced to endure why incarcerated?

Amnesty International expressed concern in January 2011 about the conditions in which he was being held, calling them harsh and punitive, and 295 American legal scholars signed a letter in April saying that the detention conditions amounted to a violation of the U.S. constitution.

en.wikipedia.org...


ETA: found your source, it says he was charged of breaching UCMJ, for transferring data, but that was not identified as a crime, just the grounds of charge ability.

reply to post by HomerinNC


A crime is a crime because a PERSON or group of people DECIDED it was a crime. There are laws in the universe far more powerful than any uttered by men or women. And btw, I do know how to fish. So there.

There is RIGHT and there is WRONG. The only real rule or law we need on this planet is brief and time-tested:

Treat Others The Way You Want To Be Treated.

The US and Nato are busy supporting foreign protesters who are outing the corruption of their leaders and/or military factions. But the US's dirty laundry should not be exposed?

It's a double standard.
It makes them look like idiots.

reply to post by Whereweheaded


He is being held and treated like any other charged person in any detention facility. If his clothes were taken from him, its because something he said indicated he was suicidal, and this is what he'd have to wear to prevent him from hurting himself:
Suicide suit

He's getting 3 meals a day, medical attention, a bed to sleep in, and the reason he's probably being isolated isd for his OWN PROTECTION. You stick him in General Population in a military jail and charged with charges that tantamount to treason, other inmate soldiers would probably kill him. In other words, treated like any other inmate.
In other countries, he'd probably NEVER get this, so yes i say he's being treated HUMANELY

reply to post by wildtimes


okay so if i force my way into your house, take youre TV, thats okay or is it a crime?

reply to post by HomerinNC


your source for the suicide suit only paints part of the picture. Here, allow to further my argument about his treatment:

It entails checks by guards every five minutes, and no sleeping during the day. His lawyer said he was not allowed to sleep between 5 am (7 am at weekends) and 8 pm, and if he tried to, was made to stand or sit up. He was required to remain visible at all times, including at night, which entailed no access to sheets, no pillow except one built into his mattress, and a blanket designed not to be shredded. Until March 2011 he was required to sleep in boxer shorts, and had experienced chafing of the skin from the heavy blanket.[

His lawyer said Manning subsequently joked to the guards that, if he wanted to harm himself, he could do so "with the elastic waistband of his underwear or with his flip-flops." This resulted in him being required to sleep without clothing and present himself naked outside his cell for morning inspection, which his lawyer described as ritual humiliation, though from around March 10 onwards he was given a wrap-around smock with Velco fasteners to sleep in.

Shall I post the letter that he wrote about his personal experience in the living quarters?

Whether he was charged for an unknown crime or not, still does not negate the fact that the guy while in custody was not treated accordingly within the confines of the Geneva Convention much less the grounds of normal incarceration.

so yes i say he's being treated HUMANELY

you call the above humane?




en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by HomerinNC


Homer,
by using your own logic, perhaps it would be a thinkable solution for those locked up for crimes to dole out justice to one another - including the global PTB - load them all onto a great big boat and ship them somewhere to a remote island or wilderness, and let them slug it out without civilians around.

If they annihilate one another, oh well. We get to start clean and fresh. And make up our own new rules and laws. Besides, the more effective solution would have been to cry "disinfo agent" and discredit him, wouldn't it? If they just pooh-poohed Manning and claimed it was all a hoax, like they do everything else, would that have possibly let the whole thing blow over?

He's a "loose cannon" - and like all of us loose cannons - MUST BE CONTRROLLLED (evil accent).

reply to post by PsykoOps


I will research the details from an interview between Manning and his lawyer.
The fact that he hacked his way into Military databases, that he was not granted access to kind of solves the whole "knowingly" issue. If the door is locked, and you don't have the key, forcing your way in is knowingly.
Then going on public forums and boasting about the Helicopter video sounds less like "I want to do it for the good of the country" and more like "Look what I can do".

As for conviction, the military tribunal will provide either guilt or non-guilt.

As for proof? Really? What lawyer gibberish world do you live in?

reply to post by HomerinNC


If I tell you it's okay and choose not to press charges, then it's not a crime. I have an old tv for you if you like...

on the other hand, if my spouse puts a hole in you with the .45 on the bedstead because you did that, is THAT a crime?

I'd rather you have my stupid tv, and would even open the door for you so you didn't have to force your way in -
um, just like PFC Manning was given access to those documents...!!

You make me very nervous, Homes. Very, very nervous.

reply to post by Whereweheaded


Crimes revolving around the UCMJ is theft of Govt property, entrance into secured areas, leaking of classified materials, disobeying direct orders and/or directives. There are a lot actually.

Whether the helicopter incident was or wasn't legal has nothing to do with his crimes. That is not the discussion.
There are numerous other threads started on that.

reply to post by Whereweheaded


like i said, hes treated like any other inmate in any other jail

If I tell you it's okay and choose not to press charges, then it's not a crime.

He didnt ask, he just did it, that made it a crime. Did something WITHOUT permission.