Supporters plan Leavenworth rally for WikiLeaks soldier

reply to post by wildtimes


I agree. Secrets are bad.
I also am not naive to the world and know that most of the US citizens don't need to know 80% of what the military is doing.
It is a fine line to walk, and should be walked with honorable people in charge.

reply to post by Whereweheaded


Ah, here is lies the difference of UCMJ and the laws that govern the US citizen.
2 different things.

Military members are subject to the UCMJ and are held to a different standard.

reply to post by macman

Military members are subject to the UCMJ and are held to a different standard.

Very succinctly put. A DIFFERENT STANDARD.

And as for 80% not needing to know? What?? How can you say that with a straight face? and HERE of all places?

That's fantastically preposterous! Anyone older than age 3 with functioning senses should be made fully aware of whatever dangers are beyond their backyard, like biting dogs, rushing rivers, fires, vehicles, creepy dudes offering candy - just in case the fence disappears, or nanny drops dead.

And that info should be divulged by HONORABLE people who are trusted to be protectors, defenders, and wise.
Correct again. So, that fine line - well, who do you see walking it with honor? The boys and girls who are brainwashed to military thinking and rules? And then sent out to be shot at or slaughtered on behalf of those "Honorable" people calling the shots?

BOLLOCKS

Ok, the correct way Manning should have gone about this is outlined within the UCMJ and Military Standards and Polices.
When he found the "Helicopter" video, he should have gone straight to the JAG office. Judge Advocate. Kind of like the Attorney General of the US, but for the Military. If no response or refusal, then he would go to the IG. Inspector General, kind of like the boss to the JAG. If no response or refusal, then to his Congressman and/or Senator.

Instead, he leaked it to WL and JA, to public forums and now everyone acts like he is a saint.

He violated laws/rules/standards/policies/UCMJ, period.

reply to post by wildtimes


if you read, this is what he said:

I also am not naive to the world and know that most of the US citizens don't need to know 80% of what the military is doing.

has nothing to do with stranger danger and the other things you mentioned

reply to post by macman


How, pray tell, to you know he didn't TRY those techniques??

The military has their own rules, fine. So did the last corrupt corporation I worked for. And when I complained to the manager, the manager's manager, all the way up, I was told that "I didn't have to agree with what the execs told me to do, I JUST HAD TO DO IT."

Well, to my sense of ethics it was flat WRONG, what they were doing. So I left the organization, and told on them to anyone who would listen. Why should we for one MOMENT believe the JAG, the IG, or the Senator/Congressman would do anything at all except "disappear" him?

I have to sign off for now, friends, but I'm so glad this turned into a decent debate!! I'll be back in a couple of hours - keep it going!

Cheers!!

reply to post by wildtimes


I know, and I can say it with a straight face. Members of the ATS, are not even the 20% that should know. We are like 1%, if that.
But, to broadcast what the military is doing and has done, say 20 years back puts alot of people in danger.

I know what is required of the military and its members. Being hamstrung by journalist makes the fight almost un-winnable. I will stand by my statement. 80% of the people do not need to know what the military is doing, when we have honorable people in charge of the military.
Should the people involved with the helicopter incident be charged, yes, if it is truly what is has been represented as.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Whereweheaded

 

Ah, here is lies the difference of UCMJ and the laws that govern the US citizen.
2 different things.

Military members are subject to the UCMJ and are held to a different standard.

I know they are, former military myself.

reply to post by Whereweheaded


Then you know how Manning got the info and how he got it out was wrong and against the UCMJ.
There is a process for things of this nature.

Originally posted by HomerinNC
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Like mac said, whether or not it was the RIGHT thing to do, he did it WRONGLY, and there is WHERE the crime was committed.
A crime is a crime is a crime. You steal a loaf of bread to eat, youre guilty of theft. If youre starving, learn to fish.

manning has exposed the war crimes of a government. should they be held to account too? what if he has committed a lesser crime in exposing a greater crime.
will you answer this or skim over it like you do when confronted with awkward questions...

reply to post by purplemer


All should be held accountable.

reply to post by purplemer


IF there was wrongdoing then yes there should be consequences, but this aint the thread about war crimes by the govt or whjomever, this is about Pvt Bradley Manning and the alleged theft of classified materials
This is the only time I'll address the alleged war crimes, I am addressing Manning's alleged crime ONLY

Our military is also a form of welfare (moving in that direction, while the federal gov continues to spill out into the private sectors)...Too much of taxpayer's money is going into the Dept of Defense...in fact most of it does go into DOD. What an absolute waste. Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against our military grunts, but I do have a problem how D.C. uses our military.
Just saying...Bradley Manning is a military grunt that found some dirt on politician's agendas and also how they choose to carry our military operations. He's not guilty of anything other than exposing the truth.
If we weren't meddling in other country's affairs and considered a little bit more of innovation on our own we wouldn't require this ridiculous amount of funding into DOD...not that I think it is even required at this time.

Originally posted by macman
Ok, the correct way Manning should have gone about this is outlined within the UCMJ and Military Standards and Polices.
When he found the "Helicopter" video, he should have gone straight to the JAG office. Judge Advocate. Kind of like the Attorney General of the US, but for the Military. If no response or refusal, then he would go to the IG. Inspector General, kind of like the boss to the JAG. If no response or refusal, then to his Congressman and/or Senator.

Instead, he leaked it to WL and JA, to public forums and now everyone acts like he is a saint.

He violated laws/rules/standards/policies/UCMJ, period.

Hey there macman, how things. do you really think the powers that be, that knew full well what was going on would have let it get that far. I think he would have been found hanging from his room. job done.

kx

Originally posted by HomerinNC
reply to post by purplemer

 

IF there was wrongdoing then yes there should be consequences, but this aint the thread about war crimes by the govt or whjomever, this is about Pvt Bradley Manning and the alleged theft of classified materials
This is the only time I'll address the alleged war crimes, I am addressing Manning's alleged crime ONLY

the wrong doing has been proved beyond reasonble doubt. you cannot seperate the two because manning was releasing information pertaining to the war crimes of the usa government.
so if you agree this is the case then mannings should be given witness protection, not held and tortured by those he tried to expose.

kx

reply to post by laiguana


Manning did not "just find" anything. He hacked his way into an area he was not supposed to be in and got info while he was searching.

reply to post by purplemer


Come on, you know there is a right way that he could have done this.
He did it the wrong way, and now is being punished.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by purplemer

 

Come on, you know there is a right way that he could have done this.
He did it the wrong way, and now is being punished.

i have cited before, he tried the correct channels first. he may not of followed it to the book, but he did try..
how far do you think he could have pushed it, before he was found iced in a body bag. that is normally what happens to inconvenient truths. under the circumstance what would you have done...

kx)

reply to post by purplemer


youre speculating

Being hamstrung by journalist makes the fight almost un-winnable. I will stand by my statement. 80% of the people do not need to know what the military is doing, when we have honorable people in charge of the military.

reply to post by macman


Being hamstrung? Really?
Journalists are about disclosure. The prob is, macman, that the "honorable" people in charge are not very --- well, honorable.

This is quite an interesting little debate we have going here. Makes the cliche "the lesser of two evils" come to mind.