Muslims VS Jews. Some interesting facts

reply to post by Freeborn


I think you'll find Europeans, Jews and Arabs share almost identical bloodlines; there may only be extremely light variations due to other civilizations conquering Islam which include Mongolia, Greece, Roman, Persian, Assyrian, Christian Crusaders, French etc. Only a tiny number of Palestinians show their closest cousins are Middle Eastern Jews; among those few Palestinians showing almost identical markers are those from their ancestors who never left their ancestorial land of now what is known as Israel. A majority of Palestinians do not have ancient ancestorial ties to the Holy Land because they mostly arrived in the late 1800s as labourers. May I also add, of those Arabs with just as much ties to Israel as the Jews, are mostly Israeli Arabs and enjoy Israeli citizenship. A majority of the Gazans are from their true ancestorial lands which are Egypt and Northern Africa. Of those in the West bank are a mix of the old ancestors of the Holy Land, Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese & Iraqi Arabs.

reply to post by bluemirage5

Originally posted by bluemirage5
A majority of Palestinians do not have ancient ancestorial ties to the Holy Land because they mostly arrived in the late 1800s as labourers...
Of those in the West bank are a mix of the old ancestors of the Holy Land, Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese & Iraqi Arabs.

Those are some rather odd assertions you make there. Do you have any genetic evidence to back it up? Because unlike the jews, I am not aware of any mass genetic study done on the Palestinians.

Or is it just an opinion to validate your idea that (because of some weird genetic reasoning.... although personally, I find the concept of granting citizenship according to genetics (and not even the genetics of the locals), to be a bit weird) jews belong to the area of Israel, but Palestinians/arabs/muslims do not?

Funny, I must've read a different history book, because from what I remember, it was the European jews who comprised of the bulk of the immigrants into Israel...not that that has any relevance to me...racism doesn't colour my geography and politics.

Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Measure the civilisational accomplishments, products and results of Islam vs Judaism by any metric and Islam will allways come of second by a very very longway!
Rational people will conclude that Islam is a backward flawed culture.
Brainwashed propagandised dupes will refuse to listen because they have been indocrinated with the 'brown people can never be blamed for anything' meme

So what's your point?

"Brown" people are worth less than white people?

Aren't Israelis middle eastern as well? Or am I confused about Israel being located smack dab in the middle of the middle east?

reply to post by bluemirage5

I think you'll find Europeans, Jews and Arabs share almost identical bloodlines;

I think you'll find that European genetic coding, though varied, is quite distinct from that of Jews and Arabs.

Do you have anything to support your claim?

there may only be extremely light variations due to other civilizations conquering Islam which include Mongolia, Greece, Roman, Persian, Assyrian, Christian Crusaders, French etc.

You are aware that Islam is a religion and not a nation or race aren't you?
Yes, there have been a few Caliphate's etc but that's hardly 'conquering Islam' as the rulers themselves were Muslim.

Neither The Greeks or The Mongols conquered Palestine or Arabia.
Persians and Assyrians are both Semetic peoples and whilst both conquered the relevant area for a short time neither oversaw any significant immigration and inter-marriage which would have affected the genetic coding of the 'native' people.
And neither European Crusaders or 19th Century French entered into any immigration etc and their effect on the Jewish and Arab gene pool is negligible.

I'm not really sure what your point is.
Whist an element of Palestinian Arabs may have wandered around the Arab world for a while there has always been a large percentage domicile in the region.

The idea of Palestinian nationhood is a relatively new concept and only started becoming something of an issue about one hundred years ago.

But none of that detracts from the fact that genetically Jews and Arabs are almost identical and have a common pre-Canaanite ancestor and that the vast majority of their differences are cultural and religious.
I really am at a loss to understand why some people refuse to acknowledge this and why it is a problem.

Originally posted by 547000
To be fair, some Muslim contributions to mathematics and sciences have been almost revolutionary. Consider the decimal system and algebra.

Mathematics was started long before Islam ever existed. The concept of zero was founded around 520ad, islam was founded 650ad. My point being, there is a huge difference between Muslims and Arabs. Arabs are a race of people and consist of many religions and cultures. Muslims are a people who follow a dated way of thinking and have a hard time catching up with the rest of the world.

reply to post by kinnerarity

Aren't Israelis middle eastern as well? Or am I confused about Israel being located smack dab in the middle of the middle east?

Many (some say most) Israelis are of Northern European ancestry.

At least at the beginning in 1948.

en.wikipedia.org...

Realignment in Israel

In Israel, the term Ashkenazi is now used in ways that have nothing to do with its original meaning; it is often applied to all Jews of European background living in Israel, including sometimes for those whose ethnic background is actually Sephardic. Jews of any non-Ashkenazi background, including Mizrahi, Yemenite, Kurdish and others who have no connection with the Iberian Peninsula, have similarly come to be lumped together as Sephardic. Jews of mixed background are increasingly common, partly because of intermarriage between Ashkenazi and non-Ashkenazi, and partly because many do not see such historic markers as relevant to their life experiences as Jews.

Religious Ashkenazi Jews living in Israel are obliged to follow the authority of the chief Ashkenazi rabbi in halakhic matters. In this respect, a religiously Ashkenazi Jew is an Israeli who is more likely to support certain religious interests in Israel, including certain political parties. These political parties result from the fact that a portion of the Israeli electorate votes for Jewish religious parties; although the electoral map changes from one election to another, there are generally several small parties associated with the interests of religious Ashkenazi Jews. The role of religious parties, including small religious parties which play important roles as coalition members, results in turn from Israel's composition as a complex society in which competing social, economic, and religious interests stand for election to the Knesset, a unicameral legislature with 120 seats.

reply to post by xuenchen


Jews originated in and around Judea.
In about 6th Century BC the Jewish Diaspora started.

en.wikipedia.org...

Large groups of Jews eventaully settled in the Rhineland and these became the Ashkenazi Jews so often mentioned on this site, (Ashkenaz was the medieval Hebrew name for the region).
Over the years Ashkenazi Jews spread throughout Nothern and Eastern Europe whilst generally remaining within their own tight knit communities and rarely inter-marrying with non-Jews etc.

As a result Ashkenazi Jews genetic sequencing remained almost identical to that of other Jews and peoples of around Judea and Arabia etc and is quite distinct from those of European descent.

Sephardic Jews are descendants of Jews who came from the Iberian peninsula.
Their early history is not as well documented but it is thought that there were Jewisn communities in Iberia and North Africa prior to The Diaspora.
However these communities grew during The Diaspora and as a result of The Jewish wars.

reply to post by minesweeper


i agree. good points...

reply to post by Freeborn


Yes I know.

I was questioning why the Israeli government is re-defining and re-aligning?

"Jewish" DNA is widespread and diluted.

Not unusual for any modern group or nationality.

Male lineages: Y-chromosomal DNA

A study of haplotypes of the Y-chromosome, published in 2000, addressed the paternal origins of Ashkenazi Jews. Hammer et al.[42] found that the Y-chromosome of Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews contained mutations that are also common among Middle Eastern peoples, but uncommon in the general European population. This suggested that the male ancestors of the Ashkenazi Jews could be traced mostly to the Middle East. The proportion of male genetic admixture in Ashkenazi Jews amounts to less than 0.5% per generation over an estimated 80 generations, with "relatively minor contribution of European Y chromosomes to the Ashkenazim," and a total admixture estimate "very similar to Motulsky's average estimate of 12.5%." This supported the finding that "Diaspora Jews from Europe, Northwest Africa, and the Near East resemble each other more closely than they resemble their non-Jewish neighbors."

A very interesting comparison involving jews and muslims:


Julius Streicher was a Nazi propagandist who, although he had no role in the holocaust, and adamantly insisted that he had never called for violence against the jews, was convicted of inciting the hatred against the jews that lead to the holocaust, and was executed at Nuremberg.

Robert Spencer also affirms that he has never advocated violence against muslims, however, the Norway killer has cited him as inspiration. I get the feeling this is only the start.


A pity that nobody ever seems to learn from history, and we always end up making the same mistakes.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
If anyone studied History and the rise of Nazism and their racist ideology, you would see many comparisons with the way in which Muslims are being demonised. Ask yourself in who's interests does it serve to demonise Muslims? What countries are we currently in trying to secure "muslims" natural resources? Who have we been killing on a daily basis in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and now Libya?

The demonization goes both ways. It may be that certain people in the liberal West demonise Islam through fear of things like Sharia law, motivated suicide bombers, terrorism and the shocking treatment of women. Yet, the Jews have been and continue to be demonised but no one seems to bat an eyelid.

On these very Boards I have read the perpetuation of the “Zionist” myth, the belief in the Protocols of Zion and the general demonization of Jews. Somehow the Jews are manipulating us all, caused every war since Agincourt and are all very rich.

One just needs to look to history to see that the demonization of the Jews has been translated into action. Not just by the Nazis but later, throughout the Islamic world. In the late 1940s there were 150,000 Jews in Iraq, but persecution has resulted in less than ten Jews today and (thanks to Wikileaks disclosing their addresses), there are going to get fewer. In Iran there were similar numbers in the late 1940s but now there are around 10,000 and Iran use this as an example of their tolerance! You just need to see the type of clap-trap in Saudi school text books to realise the demonization of the Jews (and Christians) is alive and well.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Don’t tell me the Jews are not continually persecuted by countries who complain Islam is misunderstood. There are double standards and a failure to grasp the reality.

Regards

A very interesting comparison involving jews and muslims:


Julius Streicher was a Nazi propagandist who, although he had no role in the holocaust, and adamantly insisted that he had never called for violence against the jews, was convicted of inciting the hatred against the jews that lead to the holocaust, and was executed at Nuremberg.

Robert Spencer also affirms that he has never advocated violence against muslims, however, the Norway killer has cited him as inspiration. I get the feeling this is only the start.


A pity that nobody ever seems to learn from history, and we always end up making the same mistakes.

reply to post by paraphi


well said my friend...

Love this thread. It points out what most ats posters fail to realize. Jews are and will always be the scapegoat. Dont believe me, look at history. The holocaust wasnt the first time the Jews were screwed over. Islam hasnt really contributed much to society, and thats mostly because of those who have led its followers, and the gullibility of its followers. A lot of innovations have come from Israel, believe it or not. If Israel were to disarm itself, it would be conquered in an instant by the surrounding muslim nations. If the muslim nations were to disarm themselves, the middle east would see peace. And believe it or not, the U.N is against Israel, not for it. Its alright though, they dont need your help to exist and to prosper, theyve been doing it for their whole existence on their own(and with a little help from the U.S).

Originally posted by isaac7777
Love this thread. It points out what most ats posters fail to realize. Jews are and will always be the scapegoat. Dont believe me, look at history. The holocaust wasnt the first time the Jews were screwed over. Islam hasnt really contributed much to society, and thats mostly because of those who have led its followers, and the gullibility of its followers. A lot of innovations have come from Israel, believe it or not. If Israel were to disarm itself, it would be conquered in an instant by the surrounding muslim nations. If the muslim nations were to disarm themselves, the middle east would see peace. And believe it or not, the U.N is against Israel, not for it. Its alright though, they dont need your help to exist and to prosper, theyve been doing it for their whole existence on their own(and with a little help from the U.S).

Yes, "history" tells us all that.

But what if the ancient "Jews" were actually TPTB of the times?

What if all that migration was simply economic expansion?

The ancient merchant elite were present in all major trade areas.

What if their language and customs were business related and evolved by those standards?

Many "Jews" enjoyed elevated privileges granted by rulers who may have been installed by the merchant ruling class.

Many "Jews" were bankers, craftsmen, administrators, scribes, etc.

What if today's corporation/banking elite are descendants of the ancient elite?

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood

Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Measure the civilisational accomplishments, products and results of Islam vs Judaism by any metric and Islam will allways come of second by a very very longway!
Rational people will conclude that Islam is a backward flawed culture.
Brainwashed propagandised dupes will refuse to listen because they have been indocrinated with the 'brown people can never be blamed for anything' meme

So what's your point?

"Brown" people are worth less than white people?

My point is that Western Civilisation is superior by any metric than any other civilisation.

Hey Johny I didn't know Brown people were a civilization, your really really smart man, boy what would I have done ever with my life with out your divine enlightenment to knock me off the ladder of logic and on to the retarded ladder.

Lol and idiot, civilization is spelled like its self C'I'V'I'L'I'Z'A'T'I'O'N.

and "propagandised"? I don't know dude remember, you started the retard-ism cycle.

reply to post by MConnalley


good point...

reply to post by bluemirage5

I think you'll find Europeans, Jews and Arabs share almost identical bloodlines;

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Or do you make it up as you go along?

Originally posted by MConnalley
Lol and idiot, civilization is spelled like its self C'I'V'I'L'I'Z'A'T'I'O'N.

Not wishing to diverge from the OP too much, but the word "civilisation" can be spelt with a "z" or an "s". Although I may agree / disagree on your points, I think pulling someone up on their correct spelling of a word is a little (er) short sighted.

Anyway, not wishing to be pedantic but “Lol” is an abbreviation, so should be capitalised, which could also be spelt “capitalized” (i.e. with a “z”).

Regards

reply to post by minesweeper


I'm happy people are keeping this post alive. Its important People see islam for what it really is.
A backwards religion that has not modernized in the past 300 years and that is still stuck in the mentality of the world in the in the middle ages..