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Let's Get Biblical! Why doesn't Judaism accept the Christian Messiah?

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posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 11:53 PM
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I'll leave you tonight with this thought: If Christ is not true, his fruit will reveal Him. Christ reflects the Torah in perfection. God did not leave you without a Shepherd or without prophecy for the last 2000 years. If Christ is not this lamb without blemish, then you have no evidence God has been here during this segment of History. That would be a first for God. 1948 to today is your proof that Christ called it in Matthew 24. His fruit is good and the fig tree is nearly ready for harvest.

LINK




posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
 


I believe prophecy can only exist if Israel has a large Jewish population. Since Jews are supposed to be scattered across the world and await the Messiah. I do not see a prophet arriving soon.



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


I will go over your link but I still disagree. Since I believe G-d communicates with mankind differently. Are you Catholic or Orthodox Christian? Just asking!



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 02:39 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


I have no bias against that which is demonstrably real or evidently true. I accept that which is proven, that which can be shown to be real by evidence or logical argumentation. However I am biased against Faith, as faith is belief without evidence and is thus worthless in discerning fact from fantasy. So yeah, my biases are to truth and reality, if God doesn't fit into either of those categories than I suppose I'm biased against God.

edit on 15-4-2011 by Titen-Sxull because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 06:59 AM
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You are only looking locally. The nation is larger than it has every been.

Ephesians 3:6
"This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus."


Originally posted by FeraVerto
reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
 


I believe prophecy can only exist if Israel has a large Jewish population. Since Jews are supposed to be scattered across the world and await the Messiah. I do not see a prophet arriving soon.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 07:09 AM
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I am Baptist, but I am not a fundamentalist. I read the Bible as the root source, but I value the work God has done in other nations. My library includes the Discourses or Rumi, the Dhammapada. I've read the Quran for perspective. I value the Corpus Hermeticum for its piece to the puzzle. The gnostic gospels and the Apocrypha are also necessary reading, as is Kabbalah. The writings of Joseph - Maxims of PtahHotep are invaluable.

Christ said that the path is narrow in Matthew 7:13.

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."

The Exoteric church is not the answer. It is the material representation of dogma and ritual. The Esoteric spirituality is not the answer. It represents the other extreme of internal practice. The narrow path is between these two teachers. The Hebrew is much like the Christian in the fact that they are caught in the external practice. Some are even caught in the Kabbalah and internal practice. The New Age movement represents the gentile internal practice.

Christ is the narrow path, valuing the balance between the two in humility.

The minute Israel puts down the weapons, they will stop dieing by the sword. As soon as they start giving to their neighbors in loving-kindness, they heal the nations. Until they realize the message of Christ was peace, they will continue to walk alone and apart from God. The entire Bible is this message to the light of the world. Faith, Hope and Love is the key to the tree of life. Bias is the flaming sword protecting it.


Originally posted by FeraVerto
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


I will go over your link but I still disagree. Since I believe G-d communicates with mankind differently. Are you Catholic or Orthodox Christian? Just asking!

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posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 07:22 AM
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Hebrews 11 says this,

" 1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.
3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible."

Nothing that is real is visible. You cannot see light any more than you see the ocean when you gaze at it from the shore. You only see the surface and waves. You must look within to see the real story. God said, "Fiat Lux" "Let there be light." This was only part of the story. God also said in John 1:

"1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it."

The Word is the wave that carries the light. Light is a duality of particle and wave. All of what you see is this duality of light in a duality of electromagnetism. It makes up all of time, mass, matter and gravity. The questions is this:

Are you looking at what light reveals, or are you looking at the shadow? The shadow is the aftereffects of the light. The matter that light reveals is not the light either. It is a narrow band of spectrum that points to the rest of the story. The light is the source of it all. Look under the waves and the surface appearance to see what is in the depths. This is the only place you will find what is real.

Bias against God is equivalent to cataracts.




Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


I have no bias against that which is demonstrably real or evidently true. I accept that which is proven, that which can be shown to be real by evidence or logical argumentation. However I am biased against Faith, as faith is belief without evidence and is thus worthless in discerning fact from fantasy. So yeah, my biases are to truth and reality, if God doesn't fit into either of those categories than I suppose I'm biased against God.

edit on 15-4-2011 by Titen-Sxull because: (no reason given)

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posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


I will always have the Passion of G-d in my heart. This might sound crazy to many but I have my own path to G-d which makes since to me in life. I even believe in evolution. No, I'm not making G-d sound weak or lazy. I just fell G-d used evolution in some forums.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by FeraVerto
 


This post sounds exactly how I am.
An individual deeply entrenched in
their faith and beliefs.
A very welcome challenge...



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by mamabeth
 


Yes, I do love my faith. Hopefully I don't sound hotheaded. If I ever want to be a teacher or professor who teaches religion and mythology in th future.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 




You cannot see light any more than you see the ocean when you gaze at it from the shore


Sight itself is a function of light, without being able to perceive light there would be no vision at all. I suggest you spend even a few seconds researching basic physics instead of spouting new age nonsense about duality.



God also said


Which manuscript of John did God write himself? Oh that's right, none of them. Show me one shred of evidence that a deity had anything to do with any part of the Bible.



Bias against God is equivalent to cataracts.


I already explained that I have no bias against God specifically, I have a bias towards that which is demonstrably real (ie that which can be supported by evidence and/or logical argumentation). As such I've seen no evidence to support the existence of any deity, be it Yahweh, Zeus or Odin, and I've also never seen a single convincing logical argument for a deity either. If there were evidence I would be a believer, there simply isn't any. So yeah, I'm biased against anything that is indistinguishable from the imaginary.

edit on 15-4-2011 by Titen-Sxull because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-4-2011 by Titen-Sxull because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by FeraVerto
 


But what about the other part of my question you didn't address:

The people the OT stories are about - did they have a better relationship with God than yourself?

The whole OT is filled with stories of people experiencing God in different ways. Do you just parrot all those who had a working relationship with him or do you have something useful to contribute?

Do you know how your God really works? Do you know how the Word of God came to live inside the prophets of old? It was one prophet at a time. Isaiah seeing the glory of Yah and knowing he was a man of unclean lips shouted:

"Woe to me!" I cried. "I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty." Then one of the seraphs flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar. With it he touched my mouth and said, "See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for." Isaiah 6:5-7

Do you know the mystery behind King David saying:

"The LORD said to my Lord...." Psalm 110:1

Obviously David was completely clued in because he had knowledge of not only the "LORD" but his personal Lord. David's son Solomon being completely clued in also wrote:

"A man of many companions may come to ruin, but there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother." Proverbs 18:24

As Messiah that's what Jesus offers. A baptism of fire and spirit, so they can dwell within you, and bring you into the new everlasting covenant of faithful love, as promised to King David (Isa 55).

If Jesus would demonstrate his power within you - you wouldn't deny him. I can describe this power but you have to want the relationship. What is so crazy is that he wants you and I am nothing but a second pick. But I love him and will tell of him when the opportunity arises.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 11:51 PM
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hi

the jews and christians are both wrong, it does not matter if jesus existed or not, when you take a step back you'll find that such argument is useless.

a question. why do you want faith? why do you need faith? what makes faith something i should want?



posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 12:45 AM
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You ask a tough question. But, I do have an answer for you on that. And it would appear what the big problem was Elijah the prophet. Why? Because the prophesies of Malachi indicate that he would appear before the coming of the Messiah. And that he would be present when the Messiah came to occupy the temple.

But the problem was he wasn't there. Matthew 17 claims Elijah the prophet was John the Baptist. So on his death it would have triggered the following in Malachi 4 KJV

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

It would appear the "curse of Malachi" was triggered and it's quite a bad one as biblical curses go. So here's the details on it in a nutshell.

To start with you need a understanding of Leviticus 26. The covenant God made with the Israelites in the desert after they got away from Pharaoh. It details the benefits of being in a relationship with the God of the Jews and the punishments when they fall away.

Also I would point out here that the history of the past 2000 years resembles that of a top level Leviticus 26 curse. The destruction of the temple in 70 AD and the diaspora in 135 AD. The various pogroms and inquisitions since then. Even today the Jews are being harrassed. And it would appear the reason why is that they are cursed.

And I found the description and the declaration of the curse in the book of Hosea. The thing to remember is that these verses were written approximately 500 years before the triggering event occurred. The entire book covers the curse. But here is the book simplified into a couple of verses. And remember that per Psalms 90 and 2nd Peter 3-8 a day with the Lord is as a thousand years on the earth.

Hosea 3
4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:
5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.

Hosea 5
12 Therefore will I be unto Ephraim as a moth, and to the house of Judah as rottenness.
13 When Ephraim saw his sickness, and Judah saw his wound, then went Ephraim to the Assyrian, and sent to king Jareb: yet could he not heal you, nor cure you of your wound.
14 For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.
15 I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

Hosea 6
1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.


According to Hosea 6-2 the curse is supposed to be 2000 years long. Followed by a thousand year "day of Jezreel."

And that is a basic explanation to the Jews as to why Jesus Christ didn't do the expected job in the first century AD. They weren't worthy of a messiah back then.



posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 09:10 AM
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reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
 


I understand how other people can see their faith. I see G-d as being with Israel and keeping the eternal convent.



posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by ntech
 


I don't think it's that the Jews are worthy of the Messiah. I believe it is everyone who is worthy of the Messiah and when G-d will send the Messiah.



posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by vjr1113
 


I just love my passion of good nature and support.
Without it I will be lost!



posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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FeraVerto - what you look for has come. It's here now. Go back and read my post again and realize what the key of David is.

The Messiah is God's own Son, therefore he is the Son of God. When he births inside your mind, through the baptism of the Holy Spirit, he is known as the Son of Man. When a person is brought into the most sacred knowledge there is, all esle will fall into place.

Paul was right. Your body is a temple and for Holy things to dwell there you must be cleansed. Not just the ouside with ritual cleansing but the inside must be washed also.

If I am correct and the Messiah can live inside us now, that means he's already here in Spirit. Hmmmmm..... someone else mentioned Elijah - what do you think FeraVerto - the return of Elijah will it be physical or spiritual and then how could each possibility be explained?


edit on 16-4-2011 by Myrtales Instinct because: typo



posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
 


The concept of G-d is different in Judaism. What you bringing up is a demigod. As mentioned in many other Pagan fables. Jesus is not my G-d or the son of G-d. So, the Messiah has not come yet. The return of Elijah will be physical as I posted earlier.
edit on 16-4-2011 by FeraVerto because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
 


G-d and us Chabad articles
G-d in Judaism-nature of G-d
Read these links to understand how Jews view G-d. Traditionally.



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