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In Genesis, God gave us a choice for our education in good and evil. Walk with Him and never work, or Go it alone. We choose Satan as our prince and teacher. In return, God gave us toil for our knowledge. Nevertheless, God has always been there guiding us. All knowledge worth anything has come from Hebrew scientists. Ultimately, we received our education form God anyway. Israel is his chosen mirror to reflect His image. God is the light. Christ is the Word. Together, they are both particle and wave. The duality of light. Wave creates form by the light of God. This is all of physics in Genesis 1 and John 1. You have your proof of Christ in this.
Originally posted by FeraVerto
reply to post by SuperiorEd
This is the huge (umbrella) factor with the differences between Judaism and Christian faiths. Judaism has tradition base while Christianity has evolved since the beginning of the faith. I do not hate Christians I just find it difficult explaining my views of my faith to them. I would like to explain the differences with this users last two paragraphs.
In Genesis, God gave us a choice for our education in good and evil. Walk with Him and never work, or Go it alone. We choose Satan as our prince and teacher. In return, God gave us toil for our knowledge. Nevertheless, God has always been there guiding us. All knowledge worth anything has come from Hebrew scientists. Ultimately, we received our education form God anyway. Israel is his chosen mirror to reflect His image. God is the light. Christ is the Word. Together, they are both particle and wave. The duality of light. Wave creates form by the light of God. This is all of physics in Genesis 1 and John 1. You have your proof of Christ in this.
In Judaism G-d gave us the ability of free will. Being able to chose Good or Evil. Satan in Jewish tradition is an Angel. Like all Angels they have no free will. Only doing work of G-d. Basically messengers. I would disagree Hebrew scientist are the ones with the knowledge of Jewish faith. G-d inspired the Jews and he still does today. We have an eternal covenant with G-d. I can understand this user believes in the Trinity. Which Jews do not believe in the Trinity. We view were made in G-d's image which is the ability to have free will. Do you agree with my reply?
Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by FeraVerto
I once watched a great video series on this subject, basically it has to do with the New Testament authors adding in supposed "fulfilled" Messianic prophecies to the Jesus story. Such as the unnecessary flight to Egypt that appears in only one Gospel narrative while in the other Jesus is born and they head straight to Nazareth.
There are a number of requirements for a sacrifice to be valid or it is completely disqualified and will be an abomination to G-d. These requirements are as follows:
1. The sin offering must be brought forth by the person seeking atonement, and slaughtered either by the sinner or by the priest.
2. Death must be caused by a sharp, perfect blade cutting across the neck, resulting in blood loss and swift death.
3. The offering must be physically unblemished.
4. In the case of mammal offerings (bulls, lambs, etc.) the offering must be less than one year old.
5. In the case of mammal offerings, the mammal must have cloven hooves and chew cud.
6. The sacrifice must be brought at the Temple
7. The sacrifice must have its blood taken by a priest and sprinkled on the altar.
8. The sacrifice must be salted.
Missionaries contend that the blood sacrificial system is man's only conduit to atonement and insist that there can be no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood. They maintain that the Bible sets forth only blood atonement to expiate sin. Evangelical Christians assert that for the past nineteen centuries, since the destruction of the second Temple in 70 C.E., Jews have lacked the essential and indispensable animal sacrificial system for atonement. Consequently, they maintain, God must have provided a blood atonement in place of the animal sacrifices of the past. This sacrifice, they insist, is the death of Jesus on the cross. In support of their claim that atonement can only be achieved through the shedding of blood, missionaries cite Leviticus 17:11, which reads, This is because the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul. They conclude from this verse that only by being covered in the blood of the cross can man have any hope of being forgiven by God for his sins. In response to this argument, I have explained that contrary to the missionary claim that blood sacrifice is the only method of atonement in the Bible, there are three methods of atonement clearly defined in the Jewish scriptures: the sin sacrifice, repentance, and charity. Moreover, the sin sacrifice (known in the Jewish scriptures as korban chatat) did not atone for all types of sin, but rather, only for man's most insignificant iniquity: unintentional sins. The sin sacrifice was inadequate to atone for a transgression committed intentionally. The brazen sinner was barred from the sanctuary, and had to bear his own iniquity because of his rebellious intent to sin against God. The Torah teaches this fundamental principle in Numbers 15:27-31. If a person sins unintentionally, then he shall offer a one-year-old female goat for a sin offering. The priest shall make atonement before the LORD for the person who goes astray when he sins unintentionally, making atonement for him that he may be forgiven . . . . The person who does anything defiantly, whether he is native or an alien, that one is blaspheming the LORD; and that person shall be cut off from among his people, because he has despised the word of the LORD and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt shall be on him. Your question is excellent: "If the sin sacrifice was necessary in order to atone for unintentional sin, didn't Jesus then have to die for those sins committed unwittingly?"
Originally posted by FeraVerto
reply to post by SuperiorEd
I will continue to have to disagree with your views. G-d gave mankind; every-person the ability of free will. Doesn't mean everyone has to be Jewish or follow the Seven Laws of Noah. I will also have to disagree with Jesus being offered for atonement. This is where Christians always see people as not being close enough to G-d because they do not accept the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. This is like Muslims telling everyone they are lost for not accepting Muhammad as a prophet. I will go into detail why the death of Jesus cannot be a way to atone for sin or be used as a stepping stool to get to g-d.
There are a number of requirements for a sacrifice to be valid or it is completely disqualified and will be an abomination to G-d. These requirements are as follows:
1. The sin offering must be brought forth by the person seeking atonement, and slaughtered either by the sinner or by the priest.
2. Death must be caused by a sharp, perfect blade cutting across the neck, resulting in blood loss and swift death.
3. The offering must be physically unblemished.
4. In the case of mammal offerings (bulls, lambs, etc.) the offering must be less than one year old.
5. In the case of mammal offerings, the mammal must have cloven hooves and chew cud.
6. The sacrifice must be brought at the Temple
7. The sacrifice must have its blood taken by a priest and sprinkled on the altar.
8. The sacrifice must be salted.
MT source
Missionaries contend that the blood sacrificial system is man's only conduit to atonement and insist that there can be no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood. They maintain that the Bible sets forth only blood atonement to expiate sin. Evangelical Christians assert that for the past nineteen centuries, since the destruction of the second Temple in 70 C.E., Jews have lacked the essential and indispensable animal sacrificial system for atonement. Consequently, they maintain, God must have provided a blood atonement in place of the animal sacrifices of the past. This sacrifice, they insist, is the death of Jesus on the cross. In support of their claim that atonement can only be achieved through the shedding of blood, missionaries cite Leviticus 17:11, which reads, This is because the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul. They conclude from this verse that only by being covered in the blood of the cross can man have any hope of being forgiven by God for his sins. In response to this argument, I have explained that contrary to the missionary claim that blood sacrifice is the only method of atonement in the Bible, there are three methods of atonement clearly defined in the Jewish scriptures: the sin sacrifice, repentance, and charity. Moreover, the sin sacrifice (known in the Jewish scriptures as korban chatat) did not atone for all types of sin, but rather, only for man's most insignificant iniquity: unintentional sins. The sin sacrifice was inadequate to atone for a transgression committed intentionally. The brazen sinner was barred from the sanctuary, and had to bear his own iniquity because of his rebellious intent to sin against God. The Torah teaches this fundamental principle in Numbers 15:27-31. If a person sins unintentionally, then he shall offer a one-year-old female goat for a sin offering. The priest shall make atonement before the LORD for the person who goes astray when he sins unintentionally, making atonement for him that he may be forgiven . . . . The person who does anything defiantly, whether he is native or an alien, that one is blaspheming the LORD; and that person shall be cut off from among his people, because he has despised the word of the LORD and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt shall be on him. Your question is excellent: "If the sin sacrifice was necessary in order to atone for unintentional sin, didn't Jesus then have to die for those sins committed unwittingly?"
More through the link provided.
Dear Rabbi Singer, Yesterday, a Christian business associate made a point that in the very first verse of Genesis G-d is referred to as "Elohim" which is plural. She also said that it is a plural form of three (something I have never heard before). That, she concludes, is proof of the Trinity! Why is G-d's name plural in this verse?
The question with which you were confronted by your business associate is one of the more well-known arguments used by missionaries to defend their most untenable creed, the doctrine of the Trinity. It is difficult to imagine a notion more hostile to the pure monotheism preached in the Jewish scriptures than the Christian teaching that there is a plurality within the divine nature of God. Yet, with limited knowledge of the Jewish Bible and the language in which it was written, many Trinitarians brazenly refer to the name of God as it appears in the first verse in the Bible to advance their contention that there are three persons sharing in the godhead. More specifically, missionaries point to the plural form of the Hebrew word Elohim,1 which is one of the names of God frequently used in the Torah. They insist that in scripture the use of the Hebrew letters yod and mem (pronounced "im"), at the end of the word Elohim as a plural suffix, provides ample evidence from Tanach that there is a plurality within the nature of God. Your business associate went out on an even more fragile limb when she proclaimed that this plural syntax is somehow indicative of the "plural form of three." I will begin by saying that you can rest assured that the Hebrew tongue is a foreign language to your business associate, and both of her contentions are erroneous. While her first assertion can be easily explained away by her lack of familiarity with the biblical language, her second point cannot. Her latter comment that the plural suffix in Elohim is indicative of "a plural form of three" is particularly preposterous, and underscores how frustrated Trinitarians can become in their rash effort to somehow shore up this alien church doctrine. While I too have never heard any missionary make the astounding claim that plurals somehow mean "a plural form of three," I could sense from where this irresponsible contrivance is coming. If you examine the few verses evangelicals use from the Jewish scriptures as they seek to buttress the doctrine of the Trinity, you will notice that none of them, even in Christian terms, speaks of three persons. In essence, her flawed declaration was born out of a desperate desire to weave the Trinity out of whole Jewish cloth. This is an impossible task.
Dear Rabbi Singer, A Messianic Jew is working overtime to try to convince me that I need JC. She recently showed me Genesis 1:26, “Let US make man in OUR image,” stating that JC was part of creation with G-d, plural Us and Our being the proof. Can you explain the plural in this verse to me? I want to have an intelligent answer. I am trying very hard to learn more of my Jewish religion, as I was raised in a non-religious home. The only Bible I own is the one she gave me and it is a King James.
No area of Jewish literature could be more inhospitable to the Christian doctrine of the triune godhead than the Torah and the writings of its prophetic messengers. It is on the strength of these sacred texts that the Jew has preserved the concept of one, single, unique Creator God Who alone is worthy of worship. Understandably, missionaries undertake a formidable task when they seek to “prove” the doctrine of the Trinity from the Jewish scriptures. No prophet went silent on the uncompromising radical monotheism demanded by the God of Israel. The Jewish people, therefore, to whom these sublime declarations about the nature of the Almighty were given, knew nothing about a trinity of persons in the godhead. Because the prophets relayed their divine message on the nature of God with such timeless clarity, few texts in Tanach could hold any promise for the church to raise up as a support for their teachings on the Trinity. Understandably, though, the defenders of Christendom flaunted the very few verses that they managed to somehow skew into a supposed support for this alien doctrine. One of the most popular verses used by missionaries as a proof text for the Trinity is Genesis 1:26. This verse appears in missionary literature quite often in spite of the fact that this argument has been answered countless times throughout the centuries. Let’s examine Genesis 1:26. And God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and they shall rule over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the sky, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”
I am about to begin a conversion process. My boyfriend is Jewish and I wish to convert before we marry. I have believed for many years that this is the way for me and will be the way in which I bring up my children. I have a born-again Christian friend coming to visit me next weekend. She has been very involved in Messianic Judaism (even though she is a gentile) and I know she is going to have a big talk with me. I want to be able to answer her intelligently. I know exactly the one she is going to throw at me and I would like some help with the answer. She is going to talk about the time in the bible (can't remember where it is) when they bought back a sample of the fruits of the promised land. Apparently it says that they bought "echad" grapes. The word "echad," although it refers to ONE, is talking about a BUNCH of grapes. Therefore, when we talk about "Adonai Echad," we can be talking about three gods in one. None of this rings true for me, but I want to be well thought out on all of this. Would you please help ASAP. (She is arriving next weekend!)
I am very pleased that you have asked this question because I am certain that some of our Jewish readers will be quite taken aback by your dilemma. How can I be so sure that they will be stunned by simply reading your question? Try to imagine the astonished reaction of a Jew (who has his monotheism intact) as he discovers from your question that missionaries use his cherished national creed, "Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one" (Hebrew: echad), to prove the doctrine of the Trinity. To the surprise of many, Trinitarians will often use this celebrated verse to support their belief in a triune nature of God. Let's examine this missionary argument more closely. To support their claim that there are multiple persons within the godhead, missionaries insist that the Hebrew word echad (one) at the end of Deuteronomy 6:4 does not mean an absolute one, but rather it can only signify a compound unity, or many things in one. They will often cite two verses to support this assertion. The first is the one you have mentioned, Numbers 13:23 reads, Then they came to the Valley of Eshcol, and there cut down a branch with one (echad) cluster of grapes; they carried it between two of them on a pole. They also brought some of the pomegranates and figs.