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Hamas' Powerful New Weapon Alters Strategic Calculations Along the Gaza Strip

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posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 01:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by Xcathdra
Out of curiosity, where does Islam come into play with the struggle of the Palestinian people and their claim? And that is a serious question btw.


I don't know, what does that have to do with Israeli terrorism? Historically, spiritual movements are born when oppression is highest, therefore a movement guided by religious leaders against a barbaric oppressor like Israel makes sense. I don't have a problem with it and I don't buy into the Islamofascist Caliphate hype either...it smacks of more Zionist-Imperialist propaganda, accusing others of what they've been doing for generations.



As far as promising land I can see that point of view.. However, the Middle eAst was not always the way it is now, and at several poiints throughout history, groups in the MIddle East eventually gained control of the territory they are in now. Why is it different for Israel?


I couldn't care less about the bible and I submit the Zionists don't either. They use it as a bludgeon to keep the none too curious, emasculated, cowed and guilt-ridden western populations from asking too many questions. If previous genocide victims had had access to Twitter, ATS and Facebook, perhaps they'd still be around to tell the tale.

Maybe now is the beginning of a new age where people stand up and say enough to continuing human kind's history of conquering and plunder. I think that's what we're witnessing now, and I think the Palestinians will be remembered as the ones whose resolve helped the world gain freedom. We can all see what the Zionists have in mind for the rest of us; we're all Palestinans to the Zionists.




I mean its ok for the Saud family to conquer surrounding territory to form their nation..... The Egyptian empire, the Persian Empire, the Turks, Ottoman...


No, none of it's okay and I'm tired of helping to fund it. It's interesting that one of the USA's all time best buds and one from which the majority of the alleged 911 hijackers hailed is a nation named after a freaking family. Do you really believe all that patriotic BS about freedom and democracy? Please.



It just now becomes an issue when the people are jewish?


There it is...the false victim card, but it's tired...please put it away before you break it.



No amount of rationalization, on either side, can justify an attack on a school bus, or hospital. Tio me peoples arguments are based off of revenge, which never works.


Exactly, and what freedom fighter would give the Israelis a gift like this?



People call out the US for vetoing Israeli resolutions in the UN, while ignoring the resolutions vetoed by China and Russia. As I said before, its a one sided argument with absolutely no give.


Israeli crimes are committed with my tax dollars and in my name, and with weapons that say "Made in America" on them. If China and Russia were in the same position, I'd say the same about them.


edit on 13-4-2011 by Yankee451 because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-4-2011 by Yankee451 because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by JerryB08
reply to post by ADVISOR
 


I personally wondered how the UN condems the United States for asking illegal aliens for ID as a human right's violation while Russia and Iran fund and give weapons that are knowingly going to be used to against innocent civilians and children. I'm surprised Israel (not a friend of mine) isn't carpet bombing the Gaza strip. Two wrongs don't make a right however that is how you fight those clowns. Everyday more and more it is obvious that there is nothing peaceful about Islam.

When are the Iranians Russians and Chinese going to be held accountable. The UN is a corrupt puppet and is totally useless. they should be all fired.


The world's biggest arms dealer is the USA...are you saying we never sell weapons that are used on innocents? How many ten year wars are Russia and Iran currently involved in by the way?



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 02:55 AM
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Originally posted by Yankee451
The world's biggest arms dealer is the USA...


Countries are free to buy there weapons from whomever they choose. Just like Syria, Iran and a lot of toher countries buy arms from China and Russia.


Originally posted by Yankee451
are you saying we never sell weapons that are used on innocents?


Any weapon sold, regardless of origionating country has at one point been used against civilians. This argument though delves into the age old argument that guns kill people, which is a fallacy. The person who uses the weapon innapropriately is to blame, not the country who sold the weapon.

This argument is circular... People argure the US should but out of other countries affairs, and when we do, we get blamed for selling weapons which are then used on the people by their own government.

Which is it? The US should stay out, which means you have to place the blame on the responsible party, which would be the country who misued those weapons. Or we should involve ourselves to stop the government from killing their own people?

Damned if we do, Damned if we dont.


Originally posted by Yankee451
How many ten year wars are Russia and Iran currently involved in by the way?


Wars
Conflicts in Africa
Conflicts in Africa - wiki
List of Modern conflicts - Middle East
List of Military Conflicts

Russia - Chechnya
Iran - proxy war with Israel
Syria - proxy war with Israel
Tibet - China
China - Tibet
S. Korea - N. Korea
Sudan - Sudan
Lebanon - Israel
Israel - Hezbullah, Hamas, PA
US - Iraq
US - Afghanistan
US - Al Queida
US - Taliban
Spain - Basque sepratists
Somalia -Somalia
Northwest Pakistan - US / Pakistan
Yemen - Shi'ite
India - Pakistan
India/Pakistan - Kashmir
China - Taiwan
Iran - Iraq
Lebanese civil war

So if the US is the largest exporter of weapons, and the result of those sales is death and destruction, shouldnt radical Islam takes its place right next to the US?


Originally posted by Yankee451
I don't know, what does that have to do with Israeli terrorism? Historically, spiritual movements are born when oppression is highest, therefore a movement guided by religious leaders against a barbaric oppressor like Israel makes sense. I don't have a problem with it and I don't buy into the Islamofascist Caliphate hype either...it smacks of more Zionist-Imperialist propaganda, accusing others of what they've been doing for generations.


Well, when the "resistance" is fighting a holy war against the zionist occupiers, religion has already been brought into the conflict. Maybe if Hamas didnt lob rockets / missiles indiscriminately, things might be different for them.

And when you make your argument, I will point out that Jordan back in the day killed 6k Palestinians in a refuge camp because the peaceful, innocent radical palestinians were trying to pull a coup. Funny how that gets over looked.


Originally posted by Yankee451
I couldn't care less about the bible and I submit the Zionists don't either. They use it as a bludgeon to keep the none too curious, emasculated, cowed and guilt-ridden western populations from asking too many questions. If previous genocide victims had had access to Twitter, ATS and Facebook, perhaps they'd still be around to tell the tale.


The bible plays a significant role in the conflict, since both sides use it to justify their claims, as well as rationalize / legitimize the killing of innocent people.


Originally posted by Yankee451
Maybe now is the beginning of a new age where people stand up and say enough to continuing human kind's history of conquering and plunder. I think that's what we're witnessing now, and I think the Palestinians will be remembered as the ones whose resolve helped the world gain freedom. We can all see what the Zionists have in mind for the rest of us; we're all Palestinans to the Zionists.


So the Palestinians are justified in attacking, as well as most of the arab countries who fought several wars in an effort to wipre Israel off the map. Israel has no right to exist or defend itself?


Originally posted by Yankee451
No, none of it's okay and I'm tired of helping to fund it. It's interesting that one of the USA's all time best buds and one from which the majority of the alleged 911 hijackers hailed is a nation named after a freaking family. Do you really believe all that patriotic BS about freedom and democracy? Please.


So we are now using guilt by association. We can apply that exact same standard to Hamas, Hezbullah, Iran, Syria, Taliban etc etc etc.

I am patriotic, and we do not live in a Democracy, we live in a Representative Republic. Just as the radical homicide bombers are devoted to killing innocent people in order to please supposedly a peaceful God in order to receive 72 virgins in heaven.



Originally posted by Yankee451
There it is...the false victim card, but it's tired...please put it away before you break it.


No problem, just as soon as the PAlestinians put their false victem card to bed as well. Again, they complain about Israel and illegal occupation, yet ignore the same issue with Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon, who all occupy "Palestinian land".


Originally posted by Yankee451
Exactly, and what freedom fighter would give the Israelis a gift like this?


At any point in a countries history, you are going to find conflict, either through conquest, civil war, annexation, dissolution etc etc etc. Again, I see you are singeling out Israel while ignoring history. The people of the Middle East, actually peoples throughout the world, have been killing each other for as far back as we can go. This is not unique to just Israel.


Originally posted by Yankee451
Israeli crimes are committed with my tax dollars and in my name, and with weapons that say "Made in America" on them. If China and Russia were in the same position, I'd say the same about them.


China and Russia are in the same position, since the weapons being used to kill innocent Israelis are stamped made in china, Russia, Iran, N. Korea etc etc etc

But hey.. keep sharpening that double edge sword of yours. It will lessen the pain when its swung back towards you and impacts.






edit on 13-4-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-4-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 03:38 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


And you talk about others with circular arguments?


The simple truth is Israel was given X land..
I doubt they ever intended to abide by that treaty, they never have before..

So Israel, to this DAY, continue to take X +++ land although international opinion is that this is illegal and should be stopped..

Palestinians respond to this and Israeli attacks from tanks,helicopters and planes by lobbing a few useless skyrockets into Israel..

I'd say the Palestinians are doing very little in light of Israeli aggression and outright invasion of their land..



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:08 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


If the Palestinians and Arabs were so concerned about that land, maybe they should not have insitgated a few wars and lost.

Its awesome that you support Arab agression towards Israel through a few wars.. No issues there, you are all for it.

Until.... They lose and Israel wins.. Nows its a problem. Israel was attacked, and defended itself. If the Arabs were not prepared, then they should not have invaded.

Nothing like starting a fight, getting your ass kicked, then run screaming to the Principal that you lost a fight you started and demanding the prinicpal take action on the other party and not you.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:12 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 



Until.... They lose and Israel wins.. Nows its a problem. Israel was attacked, and defended itself. If the Arabs were not prepared, then they should not have invaded.


When was Israel attacked?
Show links with proof..

BTW, the Arabs didn't want Israel there, I agree..
So why did the Europeans chose that piece of land?
Fact is they didn't..The Jews did knowing full well the repercussions..
Maybe look up Rothschild's involvement..



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:42 AM
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Originally posted by Oaktree
I would assume the IDF knows the difference between a rocket and a missile, as well.


IDF says the rocket attack “crossed all red lines;” these lines were crossed years ago, which is why we are today fighting for our legitimacy and survival.

Jerusalem Post

Yes, the rocket attack crossed all red lines, however the killing of seventeen civilians this past weekend is par for the course.


In the weekend exchange, Israel killed at least 20 Palestinians, including civilians and at least a few Hamas leaders.

Hamas says the missile attack was making good on a promise to retaliate against Israel for killing three of its leaders in a targeted assassination earlier this month.
While the attack only wounded two people -- the bus had just dropped its students off --
militants fired more than 100 rockets and mortars into southern Israeli.
The Israeli Air Force raised the normal reciprocity multiplier a couple of times in what was called a clear message to Hamas that attacks with this new type of weapon would carry an overwhelming price tag.

Fox News

Quite a few news outlets calling the attacks "rocket" attacks, as well as the IDF.
Here is the rocket:



Capabilities: The manufacturer claims penetration of 1,200mm of steel armor or 4.5 meters of concrete.
1200 mm equals 4 ft. of steel armor
4.5 meters equals over 14.5 ft. of concrete.

And here is the school bus:



Not really trying to be an apologist for anyone, but this doesn't add up, imo.


i think it blew right through the dam bus.

not much in a bus to stop it.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:43 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
When was Israel attacked?
Show links with proof..


Israeli Conflicts - Wikipedia
UN Resolution archives



* War of Independence (November 1947 - July 1949) - Started as 6 months of civil war between Jewish and Arab militias at the end of the British Mandate of Palestine and turned into a regular war after the declaration of independence of Israel and the intervention of several Arab armies. In its conclusion, a set of agreements were signed between Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, called the 1949 Armistice Agreements, which established the armistice lines between Israel and its neighbours, also known as the Green Line.

* Sinai War (October 1956) - A military attack on Egypt by Britain, France and Israel, beginning on 29 October 1956, with the intention to occupy the Sinai Peninsula and to take over the Suez Canal. The attack followed Egypt's decision of 26 July 1956 to nationalize the Suez Canal after the withdrawal of an offer by Britain and the United States to fund the building of the Aswan Dam. Although the Israeli invasion of the Sinai was successful, the US and USSR forced it to retreat. Even so, Israel managed to re-open the Straits of Tiran and pacified its southern border.

* Six-Day War (June 1967) - Fought between Israel and Arab neighbors Egypt, Jordan and Syria. The nations of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Algeria and others also contributed troops and arms to the Arab forces. Following the war, the territory held by Israel expanded significantly ("The Purple Line") : The West Bank (including East Jerusalem), Golan Heights, Sinai and Gaza were occupied from Jordan, Syria and Egypt, respectively.

* War of Attrition (1968-1970) - A limited war fought between the Israeli military and forces of the Egyptian Republic, the USSR, Jordan, Syria and the Palestine Liberation Organization from 1967 to 1970. It was initiated by the Egyptians as a way of recapturing the Sinai from the Israelis, who had been in control of the territory since the mid-1967 Six-Day War. The hostilities ended with a ceasefire signed between the countries in 1970 with frontiers remaining in the same place as when the war began.

* Yom Kippur War (October 1973) - Fought from October 6 to October 26, 1973 by a coalition of Arab states led by Egypt and Syria against Israel as a way of recapturing part of the territories which they lost to the Israelis back in the Six-Day War. The war began with a surprise joint attack by Egypt and Syria on the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur. Egypt and Syria crossed the cease-fire lines in the Sinai and Golan Heights, respectively. Eventually Arab forces were defeated by Israel and there were no significant territorial changes.

* First Lebanon War (1982) - Began in 6 June 1982, when the Israel Defense Forces invaded southern Lebanon to expel the PLO from the territory. The Government of Israel ordered the invasion as a response to the assassination attempt against Israel's ambassador to the United Kingdom, Shlomo Argov, by the Abu Nidal Organization and due to the constant terror attacks on northern Israel made by the Palestinian guerilla organizations which resided in Lebanon (See also Operation Litani). The war resulted in the expulsion of the PLO from Lebanon and created an Israeli Security Zone in southern Lebanon.

* Second Lebanon War (summer 2006) - Began as a military operation in response to the abduction of two Israeli reserve soldiers by the Hezbollah. The operation gradually strengthened, to become a wider confrontation. The principal participants were Hezbollah paramilitary forces and the Israeli military. The conflict started on 12 July 2006 and continued until a United Nations-brokered ceasefire went into effect on 14 August 2006, though it formally ended on 8 September 2006, when Israel lifted its naval blockade of Lebanon. The war resulted in the pacification of southern Lebanon and in the weakness of the Hezbollah (which suffered serious casualties but managed to survive the Israeli onslaught).



Originally posted by backinblack
BTW, the Arabs didn't want Israel there, I agree..


No kidding...



Originally posted by backinblack
So why did the Europeans chose that piece of land?


British Mandate for Israel
You can also check UN REsolution 181 from 1947/1948
Maybe if people stopped blaming the US and Israel for everything, and spent a little time researching and asking the British, you would have your answer.


Originally posted by backinblack
Fact is they didn't..The Jews did knowing full well the repercussions..


I didnt see any arabs / Palestinians bitching when they were ruled by the Ottoman Empire up until WWI. Also, please provide evidence / proof and a link to support your claim the Jews knew full well the repercussions.


Originally posted by backinblack
Maybe look up Rothschild's involvement..


So now the Rothchilds are to blame? Please provide evidence and link to support your claim here.

You need to check your tinfoil hat back into the closet.
edit on 13-4-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 04:55 AM
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reply to post by Yankee451
 


to the winner go the spoils, comes to mind.

or do you want to reset after every war.




posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 05:02 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


You listed some wars, great..
But who attacked who??


So now the Rothchilds are to blame? Please provide evidence and link to support your claim here.

You need to check your tinfoil hat back into the closet.


Mate, read history..
The Rothschilds were in the thick of the treaty..
Hell, most believe they actually wrote it !!!

The declaration was made in a letter from Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Rothschild (Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild), a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland. The letter reflected the position of the British Cabinet, as agreed upon in a meeting on 31 October 1917. It further stated that the declaration is a sign of "sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations."

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 05:08 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


Say it with me.... Reading Comprehension... If you actually would read, you would see who initiated what in the list. Reading is your friend.. Give it a try.. you might actually enjoy it some.

Israeli Conflicts - Wikipedia
UN Resolution archives



* War of Independence (November 1947 - July 1949) - Started as 6 months of civil war between Jewish and Arab militias at the end of the British Mandate of Palestine and turned into a regular war after the declaration of independence of Israel and the intervention of several Arab armies. In its conclusion, a set of agreements were signed between Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, called the 1949 Armistice Agreements, which established the armistice lines between Israel and its neighbours, also known as the Green Line.

* Sinai War (October 1956) - A military attack on Egypt by Britain, France and Israel, beginning on 29 October 1956, with the intention to occupy the Sinai Peninsula and to take over the Suez Canal. The attack followed Egypt's decision of 26 July 1956 to nationalize the Suez Canal after the withdrawal of an offer by Britain and the United States to fund the building of the Aswan Dam. Although the Israeli invasion of the Sinai was successful, the US and USSR forced it to retreat. Even so, Israel managed to re-open the Straits of Tiran and pacified its southern border.

* Six-Day War (June 1967) - Fought between Israel and Arab neighbors Egypt, Jordan and Syria. The nations of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Algeria and others also contributed troops and arms to the Arab forces. Following the war, the territory held by Israel expanded significantly ("The Purple Line") : The West Bank (including East Jerusalem), Golan Heights, Sinai and Gaza were occupied from Jordan, Syria and Egypt, respectively.

* War of Attrition (1968-1970) - A limited war fought between the Israeli military and forces of the Egyptian Republic, the USSR, Jordan, Syria and the Palestine Liberation Organization from 1967 to 1970. It was initiated by the Egyptians as a way of recapturing the Sinai from the Israelis, who had been in control of the territory since the mid-1967 Six-Day War. The hostilities ended with a ceasefire signed between the countries in 1970 with frontiers remaining in the same place as when the war began.

* Yom Kippur War (October 1973) - Fought from October 6 to October 26, 1973 by a coalition of Arab states led by Egypt and Syria against Israel as a way of recapturing part of the territories which they lost to the Israelis back in the Six-Day War. The war began with a surprise joint attack by Egypt and Syria on the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur. Egypt and Syria crossed the cease-fire lines in the Sinai and Golan Heights, respectively. Eventually Arab forces were defeated by Israel and there were no significant territorial changes.

* First Lebanon War (1982) - Began in 6 June 1982, when the Israel Defense Forces invaded southern Lebanon to expel the PLO from the territory. The Government of Israel ordered the invasion as a response to the assassination attempt against Israel's ambassador to the United Kingdom, Shlomo Argov, by the Abu Nidal Organization and due to the constant terror attacks on northern Israel made by the Palestinian guerilla organizations which resided in Lebanon (See also Operation Litani). The war resulted in the expulsion of the PLO from Lebanon and created an Israeli Security Zone in southern Lebanon.

* Second Lebanon War (summer 2006) - Began as a military operation in response to the abduction of two Israeli reserve soldiers by the Hezbollah. The operation gradually strengthened, to become a wider confrontation. The principal participants were Hezbollah paramilitary forces and the Israeli military. The conflict started on 12 July 2006 and continued until a United Nations-brokered ceasefire went into effect on 14 August 2006, though it formally ended on 8 September 2006, when Israel lifted its naval blockade of Lebanon. The war resulted in the pacification of southern Lebanon and in the weakness of the Hezbollah (which suffered serious casualties but managed to survive the Israeli onslaught).



1917? Check when Israel was created.
edit on 13-4-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 05:12 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Say it with me.... Reading Comprehension... If you actually would read, you would see who initiated what in the list. Reading is your friend.. Give it a try.. you might actually enjoy it some.


Getting quite bored with that BS line..
I have shown my reading is fine..
From now every time you attack me instead of my posts I will alert..
Your call mate..Debate, not childish insults is all I'll accept..


You listed 7 conflicts and only 3 say who attacked first..
Maybe my reading isn't that bad after all..
edit on 13-4-2011 by backinblack because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 05:12 AM
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Two things.......

1. The ol "palestenians are fighting back with tin cans and rocks and firepower isnt as good as Israels" excuse has just gone out the window.......now if they kill civilians which they CLEARLY targeted......then its blatant......I love how everyone for years screaming about innocents killed by Israel, conveniently make excuses for Hamas.

2. I dont want to hear the "Well look how many innocents Israel killed", Hamas hides WITHIN CIVILIAN POPULATIONS, and lobs rockets..........The Israeli military doesnt.......so when Hamas targets civilians its deliberate. Especially with rocket guided missles


Looks like all you Hamas supporters are going to have your work cut out for you making excuses soon......


edit on 13-4-2011 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 05:16 AM
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Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
Two things.......
1. The ol "palestenians are fighting back with tin cans and rocks and firepower isnt as good as Israels" excuse has just gone out the window.......now if they kill civilians which they CLEARLY targeted......then its blatant......I love how everyone for years screaming about innocents killed by Israel, conveniently make excuses for Hamas.
2. I dont want to hear the "Well look how many innocents Israel killed", Hamas hides WITHIN CIVILIAN POPULATIONS, and lobs rockets..........The Israeli military doesnt.......so when Hamas targets civilians its deliberate. Especially with rocket guided missles

Looks like all you Hamas supporters are going to have your work cut out for you making excuses soon......

edit on 13-4-2011 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)


No excuses needed unless you can somehow prove it was a guided missile and a deliberate target which no one has managed so far..
Go ahead and educate me



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 05:19 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 



1917? Check when Israel was created.


Yes, 1917 is when they discussed stealing that land..
It's history...Look it up..



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 05:21 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


Ahh have you not read the thread? Its pretty clear theyve been utilizing their new technology....

2nd line
edit on 13-4-2011 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 05:24 AM
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Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by backinblack
 


Ahh have you not read the thread? Its pretty clear theyve been utilizing their new technology....

2nd line
edit on 13-4-2011 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)


Yes I have read the thread, have you??
THEY never mentioned this supposed new technology..
Only the Israelis did and many military experts agree the damage doesn't fit that kind of weapon..

So show me your proof and we'll debate..



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 05:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Say it with me.... Reading Comprehension... If you actually would read, you would see who initiated what in the list. Reading is your friend.. Give it a try.. you might actually enjoy it some.


Getting quite bored with that BS line..
I have shown my reading is fine..
From now every time you attack me instead of my posts I will alert..
Your call mate..Debate, not childish insults is all I'll accept..


Can I get a care check on aisle 2?

Also, as expected, instead of actually answering my post, which includes the information you wanted, posted twice now, you let me know your going to tell on me for asking you to actually read the posts in a sarcastic manner. If that offends you, thats your problem. I have done my best to be cordial towards you in this thread, as well as others, and you make that pretty much impossible by refusing to engage in debate.

I have attacked your posts, and backed those responses up with links and facts, which you have completely failed to do on your side.

Let me help you some more -

This is what I do

de·bate (d-bt)
v. de·bat·ed, de·bat·ing, de·bates
v.intr.
1. To consider something; deliberate.
2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument. See Synonyms at discuss.
4. Obsolete To fight or quarrel.
v.tr.
1. To deliberate on; consider.
2. To dispute or argue about.
3. To discuss or argue (a question, for example) formally.
4. Obsolete To fight or argue for or over.
n.
1. A discussion involving opposing points; an argument.
2. Deliberation; consideration: passed the motion with little debate.
3. A formal contest of argumentation in which two opposing teams defend and attack a given proposition.
4. Obsolete Conflict; strife.



and this is what you do.

de·ni·al (d-nl)
n.
1. A refusal to comply with or satisfy a request.
2.
a. A refusal to grant the truth of a statement or allegation; a contradiction.
b. Law The opposing by a defendant of an allegation of the plaintiff.
3.
a. A refusal to accept or believe something, such as a doctrine or belief.
b. Psychology An unconscious defense mechanism characterized by refusal to acknowledge painful realities, thoughts, or feelings.
4. The act of disowning or disavowing; repudiation.
5. Abstinence; self-denial.


and again -


* War of Independence (November 1947 - July 1949) - Started as 6 months of civil war between Jewish and Arab militias at the end of the British Mandate of Palestine and turned into a regular war after the declaration of independence of Israel and the intervention of several Arab armies. In its conclusion, a set of agreements were signed between Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, called the 1949 Armistice Agreements, which established the armistice lines between Israel and its neighbours, also known as the Green Line.

* Sinai War (October 1956) - A military attack on Egypt by Britain, France and Israel, beginning on 29 October 1956, with the intention to occupy the Sinai Peninsula and to take over the Suez Canal. The attack followed Egypt's decision of 26 July 1956 to nationalize the Suez Canal after the withdrawal of an offer by Britain and the United States to fund the building of the Aswan Dam. Although the Israeli invasion of the Sinai was successful, the US and USSR forced it to retreat. Even so, Israel managed to re-open the Straits of Tiran and pacified its southern border.

* Six-Day War (June 1967) - Fought between Israel and Arab neighbors Egypt, Jordan and Syria. The nations of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Algeria and others also contributed troops and arms to the Arab forces. Following the war, the territory held by Israel expanded significantly ("The Purple Line") : The West Bank (including East Jerusalem), Golan Heights, Sinai and Gaza were occupied from Jordan, Syria and Egypt, respectively. ADDED from WIKI The war began with a large-scale surprise air strike by Israel on Egypt. The outcome was a swift and decisive Israeli victory. Israel took effective control of the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt, the West Bank and East Jerusalem from Jordan, and the Golan Heights from Syria. Opinions are divided on whether Israel's attack was an act of aggression or a preemptive strike of a defensive nature.

* War of Attrition (1968-1970) - A limited war fought between the Israeli military and forces of the Egyptian Republic, the USSR, Jordan, Syria and the Palestine Liberation Organization from 1967 to 1970. It was initiated by the Egyptians as a way of recapturing the Sinai from the Israelis, who had been in control of the territory since the mid-1967 Six-Day War. The hostilities ended with a ceasefire signed between the countries in 1970 with frontiers remaining in the same place as when the war began.

* Yom Kippur War (October 1973) - Fought from October 6 to October 26, 1973 by a coalition of Arab states led by Egypt and Syria against Israel as a way of recapturing part of the territories which they lost to the Israelis back in the Six-Day War. The war began with a surprise joint attack by Egypt and Syria on the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur. Egypt and Syria crossed the cease-fire lines in the Sinai and Golan Heights, respectively. Eventually Arab forces were defeated by Israel and there were no significant territorial changes.

* First Lebanon War (1982) - Began in 6 June 1982, when the Israel Defense Forces invaded southern Lebanon to expel the PLO from the territory. The Government of Israel ordered the invasion as a response to the assassination attempt against Israel's ambassador to the United Kingdom, Shlomo Argov, by the Abu Nidal Organization and due to the constant terror attacks on northern Israel made by the Palestinian guerilla organizations which resided in Lebanon (See also Operation Litani). The war resulted in the expulsion of the PLO from Lebanon and created an Israeli Security Zone in southern Lebanon.

* Second Lebanon War (summer 2006) - Began as a military operation in response to the abduction of two Israeli reserve soldiers by the Hezbollah. The operation gradually strengthened, to become a wider confrontation. The principal participants were Hezbollah paramilitary forces and the Israeli military. The conflict started on 12 July 2006 and continued until a United Nations-brokered ceasefire went into effect on 14 August 2006, though it formally ended on 8 September 2006, when Israel lifted its naval blockade of Lebanon. The war resulted in the pacification of southern Lebanon and in the weakness of the Hezbollah (which suffered serious casualties but managed to survive the Israeli onslaught).



This has been proven now in about 5 posts.. What more do you want?
edit on 13-4-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 05:32 AM
link   

Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by backinblack
 


Ahh have you not read the thread? Its pretty clear theyve been utilizing their new technology....

2nd line
edit on 13-4-2011 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)


Yes I have read the thread, have you??
THEY never mentioned this supposed new technology..
Only the Israelis did and many military experts agree the damage doesn't fit that kind of weapon..

So show me your proof and we'll debate..



Aljazeera - Hamas says Gaza ceasefire agreed

Israel source from Aljazeera article.

A projectile - which Israeli military officials said was an anti-tank missile - was fired from the Gaza Strip toward Nahal Oz, near Sa'ad in the Sdot region of southern Israel, damaging a school bus.



Hamas Source from Aljazeera article.

Hamas takes responsibility

The al-Qassam Brigades, the armed wing of the Hamas movement, said it had shot two missiles early in the day, one of which had hit the school bus. The Brigades said the attack came in reponse to Israel's killing of three of its members last week.


and as far as your last comment about what an anti tank missile would do to a school bus, care to point out in any article where it specifically gives the name of the anti tank missile used? They vary in power depending on technology, country of origion etc. So until the specific type of anti tank missile comes out, I reject the premis that it should have done more damage.
edit on 13-4-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 05:33 AM
link   
reply to post by backinblack
 


So one question, supposing they didnt use this weapon on this civilian target..........

Why are you making excuses for them for it being ok?

Edit to add: Looks like the proof i was going to paste has already been taken care of
edit on 13-4-2011 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)




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