War crime? U.S. Troops Fire on Iraqi Detainees (Video)

reply to post by HomerinNC


Come on man, this was posted on Alex Freakin Jones’ site .. you know its just GOTTA be true!

Originally posted by purplemer

Originally posted by HomerinNC
fail thread, this was a training op
do some research next time

cmon you can do better than that... again you have provided no information and no credence to your statement...

kx

as you have proved war crimes took place in this video? All I see is soldiers shooting into buildings, i see NO detainees or anything
like i said you FAIL

reply to post by fireandice

What's the matter with you people? Is there no patriotism left in our country? This is obviously a training video. How else are our troops suppose to learn to attack empty buildings through a chain link fence? Do you want our boys to be defenseless when attacked by empty buildings? How will you feel when we lose the war because our troops had never been trained how to fire through a chain link fence? What is the matter with you people? Why can't you stop supporting the evil enemy and get behind our troops. I say death to all empty buildings in foreign lands.

Looks like a training exercise to me as well. I used to get to watch these when my son was little bitty, or still in my belly...and yes, they laugh and cut-up like that. Until they all get 50 rounds of the lunges around the track field, that usually helps them get back to work.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Yes we did find WMD just not on the scale they had hoped to find. No links becuase I could not be bothered to didg up this old trash as this is old news also. I like how they continue to dig up old stuff like this next week stay tuned we will get your blood boiling when we release abugrab photos which have never been seen. Then they come out and it is the same old crap. Sick of the propaganda on both ends.


War sucks and people due stupid crap.
We are not all bad.

Just like your not bad.

Or are you..

Your put in some of the harsh conditions weeks of sleeplessness and constant sniper mortar and a hand full of pills to make you sleep and a handful for your patrol. Lets see how you react when prisoners start to riot.

I can tell you in china they would have all been dead. They would not pull that crap on the chinese hell no.

Russsia same.

Only in the presence of US troops would they dare to act up for they know they are bound by conventions.

Some people have the nerve to spew crap as they do .Not you personally but some on here.

They come off all high and mighty from the comforts of their home.

But have no Idea what it would be like to walk in the shoes of a 11B.

That is an infantryman 11 bravo

If THAT was a fragmentation grenade, then i must have been playing with nuclear warheads this whole time. That wasn't a frag grenade and i have doubts about that being live ammuinition they are firing. Sounds more similar to blanks to me.

That looks like some kind of smoke grenade being thrown. A real grenade would of torn up the boxes there and tents.

Something isn't adding up in this video. I don't see detainees either anywhere.

Something isn't right here.

And lets stay on topic.
This isn't about wmd's.
Let's focus on the video.

Things were a hell of a lot hotter over there in 2005 than they are now, and with all the media exposure that was taking place at the time, I'm sure the soldiers had good reason to shoot the ENEMY! Because I wasn't there to witness this episode, it wouldn't be right for me to make any sort of judgement concerning the soldiers, but I can offer my opinion. I was against this invasion from the start, but no matter what, the instant our troops crossed any border into their country, the Iraqis became our enemies just as we were theirs. War is war, and things happen in war that not everyone agrees with, especially those who have never been in combat, or have found the bodies of buddies in some alley after having had their guts ripped out before getting their throats slit. Most of our soldiers are young and at first scared as hell, but after seeing what the enemy is capable of doing to their own people as well as our troops, all their training takes over and they become the "killing machines" they were meant to be. The captured Iraqis in those prison compounds wouldn't think twice if the oportunity to kill any guards presented itself, especially since the killing of an American is more important in the eyes of Allah than an actual escape. Personally I can't fault our troops if they shoot at prisoners making false moves, whether real or imagined. Of course, according to the Geneva Convention, there are certain rules to be followed when at war, and some of these rules deal with the treatment of prisoners. From what I've seen over the years, these rules only apply to Americans and their allies, and anyone else can do what the hell they like! The Vietnamese were experts at many different kinds of torure, and weren't slow to grab at any chance to use it. The Iraqis are no different, and we've seen videos of them slitting people's throats (both genders), yet if once in a while a few Iraqi prisoners get shot up, there's hell to pay! In my humble opinion, that is one big crock of tihs!

Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by freedom12

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by SpeachM1litant

 

I suggest you re watch the video you may notice a couple of odd things. First where are the guard towers located?? Next look at the blast from the grenade we call it percussion grenades or you would see dead soldiers because those soldiers are still in the blast range and you'd see dirt plumes trust me.Don't ever believe a story broke by press TV they'll make up anything.

A "percussion" grenade? When u say we....I'm assuming you're claiming u were or are in the military? If so, then you would know that the blast range for a fragmentation grenade was. I assure you, they are outside of this range.

Wow you seem to be a military expert ever thrown a frag grenade? In case you were unaware fragments can disperse out as far as 250 meters this is why when you throw a frag you Hit the dirt! This is taught even in basic so i assume you were not in the miltary. And next you would know what a frag looks like when it explodes and that video isnt a frag.

Never said it was a "frag" grenade. I was simply pointing out , there is no such thing as a "percussion grenade", unless the military is making grenades out of drums now? The "kill" range of a frag grenade is about fifty feet and yes some fragments will go out to 200 ft or so, but those fragments don't even hurt.The grenade thrown in the video is either a smoke or CS grenade. Bottom line in this incident, while they may have been using "non-lethal" rounds, other soldiers DID use live ammo and kill some Iraqi's. The soldier's did act in an unproffesional manner, hence the butt-chewing from the black soldier.

what these people are doing is more the reason why the soldiers, I mean all of them, should be pulled out of that war zone and sent home. This war is pointless, has no meaning, nor reason. What are they fighting for? Honor? Glory? Power? Money? Resources? We already have all those here. This war must end now.

Them buildings better watch the # out.

/s

Originally posted by Puck 22
reply to post by fireandice

 

What's the matter with you people? Is there no patriotism left in our country? This is obviously a training video. How else are our troops suppose to learn to attack empty buildings through a chain link fence? Do you want our boys to be defenseless when attacked by empty buildings? How will you feel when we lose the war because our troops had never been trained how to fire through a chain link fence? What is the matter with you people? Why can't you stop supporting the evil enemy and get behind our troops. I say death to all empty buildings in foreign lands.

Originally posted by 43mike
I'm really disgusted by people saying "War Crimes!" "Oh look at what the troops are doing now!"

I guarantee that if we were fighting a war against an enemy that had the capability of detaining a mass amount of US POWs and the actions in this video were committed by a foreign military force against our detained troops. Our government and the media would condemn the action and label it a "War Crime".

The US military and government does not take responsibility for their actions, they never have save for very, very few circumstances and even then barely anyone who deserved to be punished actually was.

reply to post by FreedomCommander


Sir, it's now 2011 and we are done in Iraq. This video has been refreshed out to us from the past by ... Well people who want to see America falter.

The sad part is how it is spreading in a viral way over at places like YouTube... I will never be a part of that community.

Originally posted by bigyin
reply to post by 43mike

 

These assholes that you keep running into, did you ever turn any of them in ?

Or did you turn a blind eye ?

We turned them in with a quickness.

Originally posted by P3ACE0WAR
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

They did shoot live rounds, they did kill 4 people and injure more with live rounds, they did desecrate the Quran, they did laugh at prisoners being shot at... You can twist this how ever you want, in the end you are only fooling yourself.

Now continue...

The video posted was troops firing rubber bulletts, not firing indiscrimiunately with live ammunition at prisoners, which is what PRessTV reported. PressTV makes NO mention of rubber bullets.

4 detainees were killed when they refused to cease their activities, which was to incite the other prisoners into a riot. As I said before, its a prison, not a golf club. PressTV conviently left that out of their article as well, never explaining why the live rounds were fireed.

They report the desecration of the quran as Fact, when in reality its not true.

PressTV reports the ACLU confirmed the Quran was desecrated, when in fact the ACLU does NOT say that.

I have linked all of the info in my previous posts. You can continue to try to make an argument for PressTV in this case, but your argument is not going to hold any water.

and finally, PressTV does not mention ANY sources - no interviews, no eyewitness accounts, no investigative journalism - nothing.

Your turn to disprove the fact and supporting documentation I have provided (and I will point out you have provided absolutely no links to support your and PressTV's claims).

Lets not jump to conclusions here. There is definitely a prison rioting taking place beyond those defense barriers. Furthermore, it looks like shotguns are being used to disperse the crowd and the rounds could have been non lethal [there are nonlethal shotgun shells], and it looks like either tear gas or some other kind of crowd dispersal device was thrown into the crowd.

Those were not grenades, because after being thrown and detonated we would have heard loud shrieks of agony. Moreover, the officer is giving his subordinates instruction which could either indicate a training exercise or an order to change tactics. I have seen some circumstantial evidence in the course of the thread, and if this was indeed the Camp Bucca event where some detainees were killed? From what I gather, all involved where investigated and cleared of wrong doing. It is unclear what happened that constituted the tactic change from nonlethal to lethal? They could have been at risk of having their positions taken or could have lost control of the prison?

The video in the OP is shown with no context. Anyone can say what they want about it. Like massacre took place in video, soldiers unmercifully fire upon peaceful protesters, or any other atrocity under the sun. Instances like that generate knee-jerk reactions, and people get killed. It is especially bad when the information being shared is flawed or trumped up to get a violent reaction by the people.

As for the video itself, I did not see anything to constitute a war crime, or brute force. I did not hear screams of pain after the shots were fired or after the explosive devices were thrown into the crowd. The video is the topic of discussion, regardless of the circumstantial evidence which was shown later. This should not be fill in the blanks and make up whatever conclusions we wish to meet our own ends. Lets look at the facts, and the video to form our conclusions.

Never said it was a "frag" grenade. I was simply pointing out , there is no such thing as a "percussion grenade", unless the military is making grenades out of drums now?

Any grenade that detonates upon impact is a "percussion grenade" other wise it is a "time fused grenade" ( wherein a fuse is activated when you release the clip) So yes, there is such a thing as a percussion grenade and you are patently incorrect. The proper term that is being looked for here is " stun grenade" or a " flash bang charge" which are meant to stun and disorient, it is easy to get the two confused as percussion "sounds" like it would be using the same mechanism as a stun/flash bang.

As far as your point on lethal range of a frag, it depends on the type of frag you are tossing to know how far the kill zone is with it ...as some frags have a much wider dispersal rate and are defensive frags ( and thrown from cover ) to frags with a smaller dispersal rate, but could be lobbed much farther and falling into more of a precise offensive/tactical frag.

In the future please do at least research what you are talking about before you start telling people that something doesn't exist, when it clearly does.

reply to post by freedom12


Maybe by "percussion", he meant to say CONCUSSION grenade. A concussion grenade is used to overcome the enemy not by fragmentation, but by the explosive pressure alone. Concussion grenades are best used against the enemy who is secreted in enclosed spaces like bunkers, buildings or rooms. If you have ever tossed a grenade, you will never forget the first time you ever let one fly. If you have never tossed a grenade, concussion or frag, then you have no idea the amount of power in that little ball of TNT.

Additionally, there are such grenades as "percussion" grenades; these are the type of grenades that detonate on impact, unlike the standard hand thrown U.S. military grenades that are fused with a delayed timer; this timer usually being fuse that involves a chemical reaction, usually involving an acid capsule that is pierced when the "spoon" is released; this delayed fused timer usually allows for a four to five second delay.

From viewing the video, it appears the soldiers are throwing "flash bang" or stun grenades or "Stingball" grenades. The flash bang is usually non-lethal, that is unless you swallow it and the stingball, often used in the U.S. to quell jail or prison riots, the stingball blasts out a bunch of rubber pellets, approximately 38 to 45 caliber in diameter.