Israeli schoolbus hit with anti-tank weapon fired from Gaza, critically wounding teen

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Yes I am usually well served due to the high esteem and sometimes fear people have for me. In this case I am being served by what is it, six members of the Israeli Internet Defense Forces. I really do rate more.

Did you seriously just brag on your intellect and then accuse everyone who doesnt agree with you of being an Israeli agent?

Are you effing serious?

I just watched you on the first page make excuses for the targeting of innocent kids because they were "on land that doesnt belong to them"....

yet in other threads you come down hard on kids being killed in palestine...........

Do you even recognize your own hypocrisy.........

Thats not intellect............thats an inflated sense of self ego.........and its not warranted

Originally posted by Wookiep


So you're saying Hamas is lying for Israel's super secret agenda, I get it no, I do. I think it's obvious

If you read what PT actually said you wouldn't have to paraphrase or dare I say erect strawmen only to knock them down.

Some unnecessary assumptions were made by a poster trying to add drama and emotion to a subject that really needs no help in the drama and emotion department and PT tried to add a bit of reason and discernment to the discussion which subsequently got heated because the initial poster could not admit their mistake or correctly comprehend what PT was actually saying.

The petty debating tactics, paraphrasing and ad hominem attacks do Israel no favours

I abhor the attack on the school bus who ever carried it out!!

Kids should never be hurt in war but they always are.

I guarantee that UK/US/French aircraft have killed Libyan/Afghan kids this week too, do you care?

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
I love it when people cry outrage when it happens to Palestinians..............

but when it happens to Israelis it MUST be a MOSAD operation , it has to be a hoax........

Also its horrible when innocent kids are killed in Palestine................

but when it happens to Israeli children , "i guess you shouldnt be sitting on land thats not yours"

Im sorry, but you people are starting to make me sick..........

Who said that??? It's just more paraphrasing nonsense.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

Did you seriously just brag on your intellect and then accuse everyone who doesnt agree with you of being an Israeli agent?

So you have noticed I am someone of great intellect how kind of you to notice!

Are you effing serious?

Notoriously hard men are prone to refer to me as a hard man, yes Proto is a serious man, though I have a wonderful wealth of jokes and homespun humor to liven up almost any party or social interaction!

I just watched you on the first page make excuses for the targeting of innocent kids because they were "on land that doesnt belong to them"....

So you admit that they were on stolen land, I think you can see where tresspassing puts a person under enhanced risk.

yet in other threads you come down hard on kids being killed in palestine...........

Technically according to my copy of the League of Nations Treaty these children were injured in Palestine too!

Do you even recognize your own hypocrisy.........

The duality of man, the fact that I try to always make sure I have mexican coke made with real sugar as opposed to American coke made with corn syrup in the house but will still sometimes drink American coke?

Sure I see the hypocracy in that!

It really is a vendor related issue though.

Thats not intellect............thats an inflated sense of self ego.........and its not warranted

Says the man that joined the thread to in essence attack me!

It would seem to me I am not the one making the decision on what warrants such things!

Thanks I will be sure to send you an autographed proto picture for your mantle, I know you want one everyone does.

Hopefully the Mossad won't target you for having one like they did those poor little school children on the bus!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

the fact that I try to always make sure I have mexican coke

I was very nearly going to arrange a flight for a visit at that point PT.. I very strongly share your enlightened views on corn syrup, the devils concoction!

Originally posted by Thepreye

Originally posted by Wookiep



If you read what PT actually said you wouldn't have to paraphrase or dare I say erect strawmen only to knock them down.

uh huh, show me where PT didn't just try to convince us all that Hamas is an organization set up by the Mossad to generate more violence in the region, including the recent bus attack on Israelis? You're not very observant, or intelligent if you think this is some type of straw man.

The petty debating tactics, paraphrasing and ad hominem attacks do Israel no favours

Hypocritical much? Have you looked at your recent posts lately smart guy?

Kids should never be hurt in war but they always are.

Yes, and the sad part is that Hamas specifically TARGETED that bus, yet you won't get that, since you are too busy listening to PT's drivel. You people make me sick.

reply to post by Thepreye


This is a favorite tactic of the Israeli Internet Defense League the insult. If you fail to toe their party line why you are just scum! Dare to question anything they say? You are just scum. Dare to think outside the box they want you to stay in? You are just scum!

Fail to support the theft of an entire land from an entire person? You are just scum!

Fail to believe it's ok for them to persecute others because they were once persecuted by someone entirely different? You are just scum!

Fail to not understand any of their circular logic? You are just scum!

Distrust a people because they tend to denounce anyone who won't bow to what they say and what they want and to defame them, make up stories and lie about them? What a silly and wrong headed thing to do!

Would people who use those kind of tactics target their own children as a pretext to steal and kill some more?

Quite likely so.

Play time is over. Please make the topic the subject of discussion- not your fellow members.

Consider the off topic tags an act of leniency and warning instead of the more serious manners and decorum tags.

Cease name calling and get back to the topic. Thank you.

reply to post by Wookiep


There is some significant evidence that yes the Mossad helped to create Hamas as a counter to Fattah and this is something that by the way is generally accepted by people in 'the know'.

Hamas Was Founded by Mossad

[ [The article below originally appeared in the French daily L'Humanité on December 14, 2001, translated to English by Global Outlook in 2002, and published by Global Research in March 2004. It shows how the so-called Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) was founded by Israel's Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks (Mossad) with the strategic purpose to prevent the creation of a Palestinian State.

Notice the striking similarity with the creation over 50 years ago by the British MI5, the CIA and the same Mossad of what is now known as the "global terror" (based on the real Arab terrorist groups founded earlier by the German Nazis). Trained, armed and funded by the Global Elite, the fabled enemies are used as a smokescreen to hide who all these wars are really against: wherever you live, these wars are against your freedom, they are against you. — War Is Crime.]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

www.wariscrime.com...

While it remains a difficult concept for many caught up in left/right political and religious divides to grasp the truth is that these events revolving around the instability in the Middle East are being used as the cause to attack freedoms here in America and all over the world and to give rise to a police state that can not be questioned or challenged through any democratic or peaceful process.

We have seen how that state looks like on this thread, the media says something therefore it must be true, an organization with questionable origins and funding said something therefore it must be true, you must not question it, there is something wrong with you if you question it.

This is what many on this thread are actually advocating while simply using the 'issue' as a means to attempt to justify that kind of behavior.

Independent thinkers doing independent research can in fact find a wealth of material to show links between the Mossad and Hamas at its founding as well as the strategies that the Mossad had in mind when founding it.

If that notion seems offensive, that outrage would be better directed at the government, the Israeli Government, who's intelligence agency thought it was a good idea to help Hamas early on with organization and funding to counter Fatah and Yassar Arafat and to keep the Palestinian People divided through that on a consistent path to peace that Israel would have a harder time in interational eyes rejecting.

The Israelis have in many people's opinion sabatoged the peace process at every turn and conspired to make sure that no peaceful solution is really available to the Palestinians, knowing full well that no military solution is available to them either.

While I did not argue that the Mossad used Hamas to carry out this attack as you suggest, I stated first it's possible that the Mossad or Settlers carried out this attack to use it as a pretext for renewed military agression towards gaza and they very might have.

The fact that Hamas through one of it's web sites claims it carried out the attack is not proof that it did because Radical Violent Groups have often claimed responsiblity for things that they didn't do in order to gain publicity.

As I pointed out this happened frequently in Europe during the 70's and early 80's with groups like Badder Mein Hoff, the Red Brigades and Carlos the Jackal amongst others all claiming to have carried out the same attack even though only one could have.

So it is neither foolish or antagonistic to question the validity of any claims being made by such an organization.

Meanwhile the Israelis have been guilty of well documented false flag attacks such as Operation Suzanna and the one that occured on the USS Liberty.

So in reality the angry insults and denounciations are in fact part of a New World Order Mindset where people are being led to believe to question anything from official and government sources is in essence a crime, often by people who have a vested interest in that.

This is all sound thinking and no matter how someone recounts it differently to make it seem less sound, or what kind of insults they chose to bandy about, or how many people band together to celebrate that, it will still be sound thinking.

Thanks.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


That's weird, I get a totally different description here:

en.wikipedia.org...

Mossad is responsible for intelligence collection and covert operations which are suspected to include targeted killings and paramilitary activities beyond Israel's borders, bringing Jews to Israel from countries where official Aliyah agencies are forbidden, and protecting Jewish communities worldwide. It is one of the main entities in the Israeli Intelligence Community, along with Aman (military intelligence) and Shin Bet (internal security), but its director reports directly to the Prime Minister. In recent years, a prime focus for the Mossad has been to slow down or halt Iran’s nuclear program

They sound like Israel's version of the CIA to me. Every country has an organization such as this. I guess we're all just supposed to jump on the bandwagon at "wariscrime.com".

It's funny, I thought we weren't supposed to just take "some websites' word for things."

reply to post by Wookiep


They sound like the Israeli version of the CIA to you according to the user generated encyclopedia Wiki-Pedia.

Now would that be the CIA that funded and aided the Mujahadeen against the Soviets in Afghanistan that later became the very same Taliban we are fighting a war against?

The Intelligence Agencies budgets and operations are in fact known to only a handful of members of Congress and not fully.

They are government(s) unto themselves, the CIA has proudly instigated and funded coups to set up despots friendly to western corporations and used the US Military to do the same.

So being just like the CIA is not the ringing endorsement that you imagine it to be.

reply to post by Wookiep


I don't advise taking websites words for things but to balance them with real world and other media sources.

However you seem to think it's proposterous that the MOSSAD could have helped found Hamas even though it's well known within Intelligence and Conspiracy Circles that they did.

So I am guessing you don't know anyone in the MOSSAD or CIA, I actually do, and you might not know anyone from Israel or Palestine, I actually do, and you might not have read some books on the subject, I actually have.

I have also been closely following events in the region through newspapers and other sources since the early 1970's.

So you need some kind of starting point of reference to at least understand "No it's not absurd" for someone to think that the MOSSAD helped to found Hamas.

From there it all boils down to how objective you want to be for your own benefit, versus how badly you want to score some points in a meaningless debate to curry favor with a crowd that is very much not in favor of anyone doing indepenedent and objective investigation but simply taking their word and the official story.

In my opening post I clearly stated that Hamas as well as the Mossad as well as Settler Groups might have seen a advantage to attacking the bus.

Yet people looking to cherry pick over what I really said to make straw man arguments that I didn't make to knock down while at the same time trying to insult and defame me construed that to be something entirely different.

The truth is I don't know who carried out the attack its not an important enough event to warrant my own independent investigation into it.

But the larger truth is no one posting to this thread knows who carried out the attack either, no one has a name of an individual and a smoking RPG to point to or that they can produce.

Getting others to agree that you are right, doesn't necessarily make a person right.

The situation in Israel is a complex one that stems back in it's origins to the late 1800's in the form of this modern conflict.

If you are just now becoming aware of the problem through some piece of news like this, and trying to make sense of or judge the conflict and assign blame through the most recent event you really aren't doing yourself any favors.

The group you are doing favors for in that regard, trust me won't be doing any for you ever!

Thanks.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

They sound like the Israeli version of the CIA to you according to the user generated encyclopedia Wiki-Pedia.

They sound like a Zionist regime that seeks to murder scores of Palestians and Israeli's alike according to a website called "wariscrime.com". Whats your point?

They are government(s) unto themselves, the CIA has proudly instigated and funded coups to set up despots friendly to western corporations and used the US Military to do the same.

So being just like the CIA is not the ringing endorsement that you imagine it to be.

You do realize that EVERY established country in the world has intelligence organizations that are involved in secret operations which include actions the general public most likely would not agree with, right?

Now, I'm not giving the U.S. CIA a pass for everything it does, but I am saying that it's a hell of a stretch to go from talking about secret intelligence operations to accusing Mossad of being a murdering Zionist agenda staged by the Israeli govt that has some super secret thirst for blood in the world, including killing it's own people on a nearly daily basis.

reply to post by Wookiep


Actually at Israels founding which is 1948 and up to 1952, if you visit cia.gov and visit their electronic library under the Freedom of Information act you will find highly redacted CIA documents from that period that show that the CIA clearly views Israel as the number one threat to our oil run economy and Post World War II prosperity.

In 1953 the tone of the documents begin to change, and by 1954 the CIA is in lockstep with Israel.

Now what happened during those couple years was Operation AJAX which you can read all about on the CIA website too where the Shah of Iran was installed through a CIA led coup that overthrew the democratically elected Iranian president and made the Asian Persians our number one source of foreign oil, causing us not to be dependent on Arab oil.

The Shah while not quite friendly to Israel was indifferent to it, unlike the other Mulsim nations at the time and in fact worked sometimes behind the scenes to help Israel.

The CIA was born out of the OSS the World War II Intellegence Service, prior to that the United States intelligence community was made up of a few military ataches to foreign embassies and people privately hired and directed by the President.

What you know as Intelligence Agencies are largely by products of World War II and the Cold War and were not the standard permanent institutions that they are today prior to that time period.

So they are a recent invention.

Some would argue they are a very costly and needless invention.

The CIA in fact had everything wrong about the Soviet Union and we spend trillions defending and preparing for a threat that never happened based on the CIA's 'advice'.

Likewise in Iraq there were no weapons of Mass Destruction and the CIA was wrong again.

Amazingly the CIA can't find Osama Bin Laden even though during the Afghan War with the Soviets he was on the CIA payroll and the Bush family has long done business with the Bin Laden Family.

My friend and fellow drummer, first get rid of that Pearl set and buy yourself a decent Ludwig Set, and second make it contingent upon yourself to study history, it holds the key to everything, and learn it well, and learn that it repeats itself over and over again because people don't.

Don't assume, don't take the official story or the government's word for things, because in this world if you want to rock, you better learn how to rock!

Well this thread is one hell of a convoluted mess.

I personally have no issues if Grown Adults choose to kill each other. I really don't! [I've seen it first hand] What always gets to me though are when innocent children are hurt or as in this case killed. [On any and all sides of a conflict] It's sad. It really is. All too often they are used as pawns in a larger game of retaliation [Which they have no control over nor anything to do with it in the first place] They are human beings! Not Pawns, Tools, Marks or Targets of opportunities!

Anyone who is grotesquely misguided and delusional enough to believe or defend that there are ANY legitimate justifications for killing Children FOR ANY reason is mentally ill and should have their mental faculties [thought, volition, feeling and memory] as well as their moral, ethical and intellectual compass evaluated.

It's a sickness.

One which manifests itself through an inherent psychological instability coupled with an inability to separate fact from a self-absorbed self-reinforcing delusional psychosis and many end up emotionally isolated while basing their insignificant myopically focused life and delusional activities through a diseased thought process.

Another manifestation of this mental illness takes shape in the form of denial, Even when confronted with overwhelming fact based and supported evidence. We see this here at ATS sometimes when internet "conspiracy theory comics" are overtly and feebly attempted to be utilized as legitimate source material to support their usually poorly thought out and often ill conceived contentions within any given dialogue.

It's sad that we live in a world where Innocent children are heinously butchered and murdered for what ever reason and by whichever side. What's even worse are those who will attempt justification of such acts through their weak and deliberate repudiation of reality.

PEACE
Slay

reply to post by SLAYER69


This is pure truth that expresses the insanity on a level I only wish I could have expressed:

It's a sickness.

One which manifests itself through an inherent psychological instability coupled with an inability to separate fact from a self-absorbed self-reinforcing delusional psychosis and many end up emotionally isolated while basing their insignificant myopically focused life and delusional activities through a diseased thought process.

I'm going to keep this. Thanks!