The Real Scientific proof of GOD

reply to post by kaleshchand

The first quality. "God has no beginning or end." Think people, the first law of thermodynamics. "Energy can be neither created nor destroyed. It can only change forms." So we can say that God is energy. Since God cannot be created nor destroyed, and neither can energy. But it gets better. E=MC^2 that means that all mass is Energy, and what comprises ALL mass and energy? The universe (or muliverse, once proven) of course. The universe comprises of all mass and energy there is and mass is energy and energy is God, so it follows that the universe is God. To simplify God is all matter and energy that there is. From now on I will use the word universe to describe all matter and energy that there is.

i like what you say here "To simplify God is all matter and energy that there is" and here "Since God cannot be created nor destroyed, and neither can energy."

reason why i like that, that would mean nothing was created nor could it be destroyed. right? but that would also mean god is not the creator if everything (energy wise) can not be created

reply to post by kaleshchand


Great view on the undenieable, thanks for this.

Originally posted by ztruthseeker
With the advancement of physics and super string theory, for those who have researched it, you wouldn't get much disagreement from atheists or scientists with your first 3 claims. There is energy everywhere (if you want to call the energy 'god' that is your prerogative. That this energy is a powerful force in the universe, that connects all things. That it may be cyclical, and has never had a beginning or an end (i dont know, but its possible). Where you will get huge contradictions, and no evidence is your 4th point. The all knowing, suggesting that this form of energy has a conscious , and that it communicates with people, prayer and what not. where there is no reason or evidence to believe this is true. Science requires evidence, to supports theories and hypothesis. There is no evidence for a conscious personified source of energy that we call God. Certainly this energy exists, but to suggest that is has personified traits, and interacts, where is the evidence?

I never said it has personified traits, infact it does not, it is the formless form of God. Let me visit the snail analogy, a part of the snail is alive while the shell is dead, and thus the snail is alive as a whole. As long as something is alive and conscious within the universe, The universe is alive as well, and contains the knowledge of every living thing, simply because it contains the living thing itself.

a misleading title, as this is nor proof nor scientific
at best this is a strange form of poetry,
a nice play with words.
nothing else to it.

God is a word so loaded with preconceptions and connotations that it is impossible to define it. In my mind, it is rediculous to believe in a personified "God" character. It resonates more with me that the universe is conscious of itself, and is what people think of as God. Religion fails in that it poses a separation between us as humans and god as a character. We are all God because God is everything. We are "made in the image of God." I take that to be testimony to our power of creation. As in we all have the power to create our own reality, to mold our life into what we want it to be. To think that an old man in the sky is going to smite us for masturbating to the neighbor girl or being gay, for treating ALL people with equality regardless of beliefs, appearance, or social status outlandish and its these types of thoughts that manifest the rediculous social conventions that plague us as a society.

Originally posted by sirnex

Yea, I think there could be some species out there that are more evolved than us within the universe. I don't think the universe itself is a living entity with the capacity of creative thought and ability to purposefully create itself and life within it. I also see no evidence that such an idea would even be true.

Looks more like wordplay than proof.



I could not have said it better than prepared4truth so I'll quote him.

Originally posted by prepared4truth

The universe is a living, intelligent entity with the capacity to experience and reflect.

We are the vessels through which the universe experiences itself, along with any other being. As a matter of fact, sentience is not limited to organic matter, we just haven't figured out how connected spirit is to body.

That said, you must understand that the universe is sentient because its contents are sentient. The cells of our bodies make up who we are. To reflect, the cells of our bodies make up who we are, and without them, our own intelligence would be non-existent.

Originally posted by templar knight
If by God you mean that higher concious that we all strive for - to do good work - I can easily buy that. The higher concious of the brain came much later than the "instinctive" brain and hence is not so hot wired into our body.

If by God you mean the creator of the universe then I'm not sure:

- Does the thing that created the universe have to be good? [Old testament stories suggests not]
- If the thing that created the universe not good then does that still make them God [or rather your God?]
- If the thing that created the universe is omniscient - all knowing - both past, present and future then isn't very illness. death and disease their fault - or rather their plan falling into place? In creating a pack animal, mainly carnivore man to be the cleverest animal, isn't that like someone putting a child with an open bottle of bleach? Who is to blame when there is a serious accident?

These are serious questions that question what your God is really like?

All I can say is consider the factorial nature. God is neither good nor not good, it just is. A person cannot be good or not good to the cells comprising of said person, he just is.

Yes it would be its plan falling into action. But for God it is just another experience neither good nor bad. If a person has never experienced pain and takes a razor and cuts himself deliberately in order to experience said pain is it good or bad? neither, it is just an experience and the cells of his body really have no say in it though they are the ones actually doing the cutting and getting affected as well. Now expand that massively and you should get some idea of what I am trying to potray.

reply to post by eMachine


This is not my theory, sorry if I came across that way, I got it from Hinduism, I just tried to put it out in a way I hope more people could understand.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
kaleshchand: To simplify God is all matter and energy that there is. From now on I will use the word universe to describe all matter and energy that there is.
Laz: The Bible says that God is spirit, not energy, not matter. He dwells in inapproachable light (energy) but He is not that energy. He created energy,

kaleshchand: The second quality. God is everywhere. The universe is everywhere, God is everywhere, simple.
Laz: God is not contained in His universe. Yeah, He created that, too.

kaleshchand: The third quality. God is all powerful. What is more powerful than the universe? nothing, because the universe compromises of everything. So universe is all powerful. and so is God.
Laz: God's Power is not dependent on His creation. "What is more powerful than the universe?" God, for He made it.

kaleshchand: The fourth quality. God is all knowing. Since the universe is "everything" it will mean that only the universe can know about everything, thus it is all knowing, and so is God.
Laz: The universe is almost all inanimate matter, and what can rocks, gasses, plasma, and all the rest of it know any thing? We have minds, and we really don't know much. Again, God is not contained in His universe.

I can only hope that you put on your Nomex suit...

What is spirit? is it not a form of energy?

God created the universe is analogous to you created all of the cells of your body. Ponder on that.

Originally posted by mrjones7885
reply to post by kaleshchand

 

So everything is god! I am god you are god were all gods because our souls are comprised of energy. Can we stop calling it god yet?

you can but I wont.

Do you know what I think about this "proof" ?

Troll Science - Science you wish were true...

know that site ?

reply to post by kaleshchand


Very elegant, one of the best pieces I have read in a while.

reply to post by kaleshchand


intersting read OP. i somewhat agree with your conclusions. although labeling God as energy doesn't seem right to me. Even though it does prove you point, God is more than energy and the universe. God is beyond our understanding. While He may be those things, He is also so much more than we can ever imagine.

also i want to say that if God doesn't exist, than nothing matters. everything you do is meaningless. 99.9999% of people that ever lived will be forgotten. Even great historians and theologians will be forgotten in time. So what's the point of life if you live for 80 whatever years and then you die and are nothing again. Seems rather hopeless.

But when you put God into the equation everything makes sense. Life has meaning again, and there is a purpose for us humans. And that is to enjoy a relationship with our creator.



btw read my signature

Originally posted by ReaPErofSIN
reply to post by kaleshchand

 

Ha ha ha ha ha. Thats the funniest load of crap I've ever heard. But that is your opinion. I'm not a christian so don't think I am judging you amigo. It just saddens me that so many people fell into the whole religion slavery scam. There is no God. But their is a creator. Demons, spirits, anything good or evil is in the presence now. But you have to travel to the 4th, 5th, and 6th to find them. The fallen ones, or angels to you humans, were the Anunnaki. They are aliens. NOT GODS. But superior intelligence. Millions of years of evolving for these beings.

We are not the only humanoid civilization as all beings in this vast universe strive and kill to survive. Humans are the virus. We destroy every planet we live on. You want peace? You must first destroy to rebuild. Or blah blah blah as you judges would say as no ones opinions matter but your own. Peace and love to you humans.

I am not talking about those Gods, I am talking about the God of Gods, big difference. I do agree that "Gods" of many religions were possibly aliens, but I am not talking about them.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by kaleshchand

 

nothing failed. I put the fish in a bowl of water I created. Now ask the fish to prove I made its bowl and placed him in there. good luck

First of all you probably did not create the water or the bowl or the fish, and if you did, I am sure scientists would want to hear about it. But even then it would be a fail.

Put the fish, bowl and water inside yourself in a similar manner like you are inside the universe, or put yourself out of the universe, in a similar manner as the fish is outside of you, and then let me know.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by kaleshchand

 

Great post, I fully agree. I don't like to call it "God," too many evil connotations on that word. I would rather say "Mother," but what I really should call it is "The Force."
The Force is everywhere, within us all, and in everything we have and know. It is hear to use at our digression, but the energy is both positive and negative, and one can use both to bend the laws of nature if one knows how. If everyone was in true touch with the Force, the world would be a better place.

Exactly, I think the word God has been overused and misused till where it has lost its meaning.

Originally posted by Nobama
reply to post by kaleshchand

 

So wouldn't it make more sense to say our ancestors worship the Universe because it was so strange and powerful to them? Sorry but if anything your just furthering proving that there is no all knowing being.

Only they did not worship the universe, not in that sense anyway, they worshipped deities and what not, but not directly the universe, at least not mostly.

Originally posted by kaleshchand

Originally posted by sirnex

Yea, I think there could be some species out there that are more evolved than us within the universe. I don't think the universe itself is a living entity with the capacity of creative thought and ability to purposefully create itself and life within it. I also see no evidence that such an idea would even be true.

Looks more like wordplay than proof.

edit on 7-4-2011 by sirnex because: (no reason given)

I could not have said it better than prepared4truth so I'll quote him.

Originally posted by prepared4truth

The universe is a living, intelligent entity with the capacity to experience and reflect.

We are the vessels through which the universe experiences itself, along with any other being. As a matter of fact, sentience is not limited to organic matter, we just haven't figured out how connected spirit is to body.

That said, you must understand that the universe is sentient because its contents are sentient. The cells of our bodies make up who we are. To reflect, the cells of our bodies make up who we are, and without them, our own intelligence would be non-existent.

So a rock is intelligent because we are intelligent... Right, that makes perfect sense! How could I have ever overlooked such a profound truth! Man I feel so stupid now.. thanks for setting me straight!

There is no scientific "proof" of God.

It is impossible to "prove" the existence or nonexistence of God through the scientific method of observation, experimentation, clinical trials, logic, and mathematics.

Humans of today are no more scientifically advanced than the humans of the unreachable undocumented unknown distant past. If it was possible to "prove" the existence of God, to communicate with God in a scientifically provable way, it would have been accomplished eons ago.

It has not yet been done.

Proving the existence, the reality, of God is outside the reach of human ability.

But kudos to you for trying.

The Bible says that God can only be known by faith and that faith is a gift given by God to those s/he chooses, and that it is withheld from those from whom s/he chooses to withhold it.

Go figure.

A friend who is far more well-versed in these things than I says you should pray and ask God to give you the gift of faith, to open your eyes/mind to the reality of God even though it was determined at the "beginning" of time who will receive that gift. [That concept is in itself an unknowable paradox] Calling it a gift means that it can only be received by those to whom God chooses to give it. You cannot "earn" it.

If that's the case, which sounds like pre-determination (i.e. it's already been decided and there's nothing you can do to change it), why make the effort? None-the-less, my friend insists that your effort, your prayers, can and do make a difference. I, being logical, find it difficult to accept, much less comprehend, her point of view.

Originally posted by Heehaw

This except it's more pantheism than panentheism. That is, he describes God is in all, as opposed to all is in God. Subtle but important distinction.

Also, the fact that the OP use e=mc^2 to conclude that energy = mass. Incorrect, and incorrect use of a formula. The idea is that the amount of energy is produced from 2 factors; the amount of mass, and the velocity of light squared. By your thinking, god = velocity of light squared. What is the velocity of light? We know it's 186,000 miles per second. But what is it? A velocity is not energy, or mass. It is simply a word to describe something; in this case, the speed and direction of an object (light).

edit on 7-4-2011 by Heehaw because: Pantheism vs Panentheism

edit on 7-4-2011 by Heehaw because: (no reason given)

I am describing all in God and God in all both.

And yes energy does equal mass. If you take a portion of an atom and convert it to energy (as is done in fission and fusion) you know that mass can be converted to energy, and since energy cannot be created or destroyed than mass is energy.