The Real Scientific proof of GOD

You missed something. In one holy book, God puts the words into someones mouth who wrote them down: "I am IT, I am all there is and there is NOTHING outside of me. I have allways been and I will allways be", which to me sounds as if HE was saying. HE made himself into everything that exists. He is you and me, is the wind on your face, is the smallest nuclear particel and the greatest stellar constellation all at the same time, not to mention all the things we dont even know about, like multiple universes. You wanna see GOD? Well, look around you. You are even inhaling HIM with every breath you take, and you are praising HIM with every beat of your Heart. Halleluija! Now, thats a GOD, is'nt it? That winchy guy on the cross has nothing to do with it. GOD does'nt count "sins", he is no dealer... HE is everything there is, always has been and will be in the future. So whats your proof and worry?

Originally posted by kaleshchand
...Conclusion, the Universe is God, where universe is defined as "All matter and energy that there is". This definition is here for future proofing, so that it will automatically include multiverses, parallel universes, or any other universes that are discovered.

Your reasoning is fatally flawed. Your "theory" smacks or eastern mysticism. Therefore, I would have to assume you are promoting a non-Christian view of God.

I certainly am not an expert on the Christian view of God’s personage. However, to picture God as some vaporous cloud wafting it's self about the universe randomly is not my God. My God said He made man in HIS IMAGE. I have form. I have function. I have a physical presence. So, I would assume my Christian God does as well.

The OP's view of God as everything ignores evil. If God is everything, that would mean that God is evil as well as good. This contradiction is not trivial and cannot be avoided.

The fault with trying to scientifically prove the existence of God is that it ignores the absolute need for FAITH. Without faith no man may see God. If you can scientifically prove the existence of God, of what use is faith? Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

Of course everyone, including the OP, has the God given right to view God as they desire. I wish to say loud and clear though that the Christian God IS NOT some vaporous cloud wafting it's self about the universe randomly.

Originally posted by Nobama


oh i'd like to add I didn't read past your first sentence in your last post.

^^^ Ignorance at its worst. Of course you can't see with those cool shades on man!

Originally posted by kaleshchand
People please stop going offtopic and stop flaming each other and actually read, think and think again.
I am seeing many posting without thought. I was busy all day and now I will try and post as many replies as I can. But if I see the flame and offtopic posts continue I will abandon the topic.

You just love to generalize don't you?
I ask valid questions and replied to your 1st post here.

You have chosen to side step them in favor of NOT addressing my posts to you.
I did so without "going" off topic/flaming.

Nobama has the issue, not me.
I offer discussion, not flaming.
Please, would you mind staying on topic yourself?

Originally posted by sirnex
I don't get it. Where is the proof that the universe is all knowing given that to know something the universe must be a living intelligent entity with the capacity to experience and reflect upon those experience in which to gain knowledge of all things.

I believe you will find the answer you are looking for in semiotics.

How do you define intelligence? Does "Awareness" define it well? The meaning and understanding is in the relationship of all things. The links between things in their functioning is a form of "knowing" in that it is awareness of the relationships as they function with in a sign system.

Looking at the solar system, the argument would be that moon does not "know" about the Earth; and vice versa. However, the Earth as a system is aware of the moon as it impacts that system (tides for example), just as the moon is aware of the Earth (gravitational pull). Both are aware of the Sun and I'm sure that scientists have proven links between solar activity and activity in the center of the galaxy. One day, we may understand a greater link between our galaxy and others.

Originally posted by kaleshchand

If a bowl of liquid has the generally accepted qualities of a bowl of water I will call it a bowl of water, if the universe/multiverse has the generally accepted qualities of God I will call it God.

Science does NOT back up your unproven claim: as "Scientific Fact."
You're entitled to your "opinion" but you are not entitled to mislabel
what you have come to know (via personal intuition) as anything veracious.

You speak in absolutes when in fact the above you have made is anything but.
You dismiss variables as nothing when viewing (with your limited senses) a bowl of liquid for example.

Do you deny this?

Originally posted by CarlitosAmsel
You missed something. In one holy book, God puts the words into someones mouth who wrote them down: "I am IT, I am all there is and there is NOTHING outside of me. I have allways been and I will allways be", which to me sounds as if HE was saying. HE made himself into everything that exists. He is you and me, is the wind on your face, is the smallest nuclear particel and the greatest stellar constellation all at the same time, not to mention all the things we dont even know about, like multiple universes. You wanna see GOD? Well, look around you. You are even inhaling HIM with every breath you take, and you are praising HIM with every beat of your Heart. Halleluija! Now, thats a GOD, is'nt it? That winchy guy on the cross has nothing to do with it. GOD does'nt count "sins", he is no dealer... HE is everything there is, always has been and will be in the future. So whats your proof and worry?

Oh yeah, well prove that everything exists!



Just kidding my friend. Some folks just don't understand.

This goes for the religious and the Atheist alike.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by kaleshchand

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
kaleshchand: To simplify God is all matter and energy that there is. From now on I will use the word universe to describe all matter and energy that there is.
Laz: The Bible says that God is spirit, not energy, not matter. He dwells in inapproachable light (energy) but He is not that energy. He created energy,

kaleshchand: The second quality. God is everywhere. The universe is everywhere, God is everywhere, simple.
Laz: God is not contained in His universe. Yeah, He created that, too.

kaleshchand: The third quality. God is all powerful. What is more powerful than the universe? nothing, because the universe compromises of everything. So universe is all powerful. and so is God.
Laz: God's Power is not dependent on His creation. "What is more powerful than the universe?" God, for He made it.

kaleshchand: The fourth quality. God is all knowing. Since the universe is "everything" it will mean that only the universe can know about everything, thus it is all knowing, and so is God.
Laz: The universe is almost all inanimate matter, and what can rocks, gasses, plasma, and all the rest of it know any thing? We have minds, and we really don't know much. Again, God is not contained in His universe.

I can only hope that you put on your Nomex suit...

What is spirit? is it not a form of energy?

God created the universe is analogous to you created all of the cells of your body. Ponder on that.

Your points while intuitive bring up other points that need addressing.

We know human beings did not create the Universe.
We also do NOT know that a God or "The God" created the universe.

Can it not be possible that the Universe created the Universe and not a God?
Does everything really have a beginning?

A baby doesn't come from no where, right?
2 simple elements (Sperm and an Egg) were needed coupled to an environment
suitable to allow these cells to *create* the future baby.

What condition(s) do you suppose were around the moment of nothingness and how did this nothingness
begin to create environments needed for reactions that -over time set up the building blocks and basic
foundational conditions for *life* to reproduce?

reply to post by Condemned0625


Please educate yourself before responding. It's very easy to come on here and say their is no God because you dont want to be accountable for your life. However, there are many scientific and mathmatical equations that support the evidence of God, creationism.

Please read about the first and second laws of thermodynamics.

In summary, you can not create energy without energy. (meaning there must always be a beginning energy source in order to create energy)
hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...

Originally posted by dubiousone


The Bible says that God can only be known by faith and that faith is a gift given by God to those s/he chooses, and that it is withheld from those from whom s/he chooses to withhold it.

Go figure.

Is it not rather convenient for a book to be swallowed whole without question: in order to be:

-saved
-a "true" devout believer
-a true disciple of God/Jesus
-granted everlasting life as opposed to an eternal death via the lake of fire???


The bible says _________________ so it MUST be true.

reply to post by romanmel


Define "image".

Are we so sure that image is only in the sense of visage? If so, look at the diversity of human physiognomy on the planet and tell me which one is the true face of God. That fact alone negates, for me at least, the idea that image is only in the sense of physical features.

The original sense of "image" comes from Latin for "imitate," as in copy or reflection. copy does not need to imply exact shape. For example, look at all mammals. We all have commonalities that are different based on the niche we take advantage of. We all share these links, nonetheless. The human body does not have parts or functions that do not make sense within our system. Our system is reliant on the Sun, the sun is connected to the center of the galaxy. Molecules, osmosis, chemical reactions, energy in - energy out: these are all universals and they are all present in our body, occurring as important functions of our existence.

If we are to solely look at the physical attribute out of context, then what gender would God be? Would He have a penis or a vagina? And what would be the need of either if He is, was and always will be. With whom would he reproduce and to what end?

What about a spleen, a blatter, a respiratory system, a circulatory system? If God is existing outside of Earth's atmosphere, what need would He have for systems that are in place in humans to make sure we function correctly vis-a-vis our environment?

Jesus said, "Split a piece of wood and I am there; lift up a stone and you will find me."

If anything backs up the OPs definition, this, for me, is ultimate supporting evidence. We pooh-pooh the smaller players in our life - the little guys like microbes and ants and worms that, at the end of the day, prop up our entire ecosystem and keep it running; keep things in balance. Everything is connected and while you may say, that's just Eastern thought, it's also scientific thought. You can look at a bacterium, in abstractio, on a culture dish, but without context, you could not answer the functions and cycles of this bacterium as it reacts to its environment.

As far as "evil"...

The universe is full of winners and losers. Human society is also filled with winners and losers. Winners often win at the expense of the losers. Where there is some notion of morality, we decide - culture by culture - what is a justifiable win (morally good) and an unjustifiable win (morally evil). No such labels - highly abstract ones, by the way - are applied by humans to an alligator eating a deer or a star going supernova and destroying a planet.

Originally posted by marriah3330
ENERGY CAME FROM SOMEWHERE, and in my opinion God, energy/God can manifest itself, or change and transform, therefore create sound, currents, growth, etc etc etc. Or one could argue there has to be a God or something other than what is known to our universe because of these laws of thermodynamics, energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only transformed, so it came from somewhere!!!

Besides, science has yet to prove the bible wrong, so instead of people trying to get me to prove to them God exists, how bout this, prove to me he DOESNT!

(1) Energy came from somewhere...Is it not possible that (over time: millions and millions of years)
-portions of the building blocks of life were created through: what *we* consider nothingness?

Everything is fractal in nature is it not? How do you know there weren't precursor elements that begot
essential particles which again over time had the ability to create.

Cells have the ability to create.
It does not mean they are God, but when we look at the very beginning: we cannot
KNOW what happened and still do not know: Science does not know.

The bible (which offers the same no-proof tries to tell us what happened in the beginning)
It does not make it true.

The burden of proof always lies with the one who MAKES the claim:
in this case: The bible.

reply to post by kaleshchand


Hi all, been trolling for more than a year here but decided to sign up in reply to this topic.

First, great start to the post, but when you mention

the universe is God

I have to add that in fact the Universe is not God, God is omniscient yes but that does not mean he is in the trees, the clouds, in space or some "energy" all around us like some animist beliefs or "the force".

No. God created the universe, therefore He cannot be a part of the universe. How can the Creator be a part of the creation?

Originally posted by Silicis n Volvo


mathematics and science can and EVENTUALLY will prove how everything came to be in this universe therefore DISPROVING god.

CAN -meaning it can't as of now.
Eventually? When?

In the sole interest of preserving evidence (see the Catholic Church)
who undoubtedly burned many historical and cultural artifacts...

HIS-STORY does not really contain all of the facts surrounding *accounts*

If we are to apply the SAME critical levels of discernment MANY widely accepted events
FAIL to prove otherwise.

Originally posted by wazz1e
Try to find answers in meditation

best regards to all

Perhaps it would be better to say:

"You will find answers in meditation."

"Try" is a poor man's method of failure.

Originally posted by Sphota
reply to post by romanmel

 

Define "image".

Are we so sure that image is only in the sense of visage?

To answer your question, consider 1 Corinthians 11:7 (NIV):

A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.

Originally posted by nomady
I have to add that in fact the Universe is not God, God is omniscient yes but that does not mean he is in the trees, the clouds, in space or some "energy" all around us like some animist beliefs or "the force".

No. God created the universe, therefore He cannot be a part of the universe. How can the Creator be a part of the creation?

I take it you do not believe Christ when he said:

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?

When you look up at a starry sky, is that starry sky within you? Absolutely.

The image is entirely created in your mind. The light passes through your eyes and is converted to an electrical signal. That electrical signal is then passed to the brain which "creates" the image we interpret.

The same goes for sound. The sound waves resonate in our inner ear which converts the waves to an electrical signal. That electrical signal is passed to our brain and again, we create the sound based off of the electrical signal.

The same goes for touch, taste, and smell. All of it is electrical signals which we create an image for in our consciousness. Sever the electrical signal, and you no longer have any data to create an image in your mind with.

The creator is without us, and within us. All of it is an image created in our mind.

As above, so below.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by sapien82

Therefore GOD did not exist before man , therefore GOD only exists because humans have faith and believe in him. Without the first humans to develop the concept of GOD ,we would not be having this debate.

Humans created GOD to explain what the science at the time couldnt

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" I use this quote from Clarke to explain my meaning , anything that is beyond human comprehension would seem like Divine intervention , as that is the only explanation we can give without greater understanding

(1) When you speak of faith are you generalizing all religion-based beliefs?
-There are other forms of belief that NO ONE (including yourself) can debunk as false.

The concept of God would have developed whether or not the progenitors ironically
"created" the concept of a God or not. If you lack the intuition and the open mind
that tells you there is something more to a human body other than organs and a pulse:

then it stands to reason you don't know enough to comment on the topic when you
swiftly decide for everyone that there is no God/Creator.

(2) I feel that there is a soul, a spirit within me. Of course I could be wrong.
-And I am good with that. To me it makes sense. The bible/biblical God does NOT make sense.

I don't buy into Divine intervention because it does not make sense.
It does not mean it does not exist.

(3) What you quoted Clark as saying makes perfect sense.
-Nibiru, UFO's come to mind.



I seek proof.
I have not encountered ANY proof that debunks the assertion that a Creator God does exist.
You have provided a more aggressive foot stomping on the ground to hit home your point.

It does not make it fact.
My concept of God is pretty similar in nature to the way the OP described God.
But, since there really is no proof: I have trouble believing.

reply to post by IAMIAM


Maybe I am not understanding...
So, you are saying God is electricity?

Originally posted by pplrnuts

Originally posted by kaleshchand


I will not post any links in this post, because everything I state will be well known scientific facts.

God has no beginning or end. (i.e. God was never "born" and can never die)

God is everywhere.

God is all powerful.

God is all knowing.


So we are looking for "someone" or "something" with those qualities.

Well...

The Tooth fairy is everywhere.
The tooth fairy is all powerful.
The tooth fairy is all knowing.

I read this all in a book too just like your God was found!!!

My list is just as much FACT as your "Fact" list. Golly gee looky there!!

I like the tooth fairy better than your God though. Lots less folks slaughtered and tormented by the tooth fairy.

edit on 8-4-2011 by pplrnuts because: (no reason given)

Piss poor analogy butthead.

There is NO book that states the tooth fairy has God-like qualities that most religious text states...

If it had been written 2,000 years ago? Then perhaps you would have congregations and millions following the
doctrines...See the difference? It does not make the bible absolute fact...

But it does give it some (false sense) of credibility because it is so old.