Heading for the hills: Probably a fatal choice!

Excellent thread DaddyBare. I always find it ammusing how when most people are confronted with survival questions or conversation, or scenarios, the respose is always "im headid to the hills/mountains" ect....

Even though knowledge is crucial to suvival, the truth is, if you haven't had any real hands on training or are presently living the lifestyle, then most likely you're not going to even make it half way there. And if one does make it there, as others have pointed out. It gets COLD in them thar hills, and COLDER yet in the high country. making through the first winter is paramount, and sadly a cold winter can take out even the hardened of survivalists, if proper shelter, heat, and food aren't adequite or insufficient. Let alone bringing a family with you, adding to the consumption of available resources.

reply to post by getreadyalready


THANK YOU! getreadyalready

I perhaps did not make myself clear...yes, the people who are given that "label" (I am married to one) embody doing the right thing, and all the qualities you listed regarding those who live in the hills, and those who live in the country.

Absolutely correct, the "stereotyped image" of what "redneck" and "hillbilly" mean to people who don't know anyone from the country or non-city is absolutely INcorrect. I did not call anyone that - I was repeating what was said by another poster.

reply to post by DaddyBare


For those that think there is some "hate" or favoritism going on here. Imagine this scenario. Imagine, the rural folks thinking that if SHTF, the best strategy was to head into town? There are tons of stores, warehouses, guns, ammo, pharmacies, resources galore. There is ample shelter, hiding places, choke points. To someone, an urban situation might seem ideal for survival when SHTF. So, all of a sudden for 100s and 100s of miles, the rural people flood into an already crowded city for survival.

Wouldn't you city folks have an advantage? You know the layout, you know how to survive there. You are going to defend the resources you have. You realize the resources are limited and it is a mistake to flood the city with refugees. As a city-dweller, you would think any rural folks trying to come survive there in an emergency would be suicidal right?

DaddyBare's point was: Stick with what you know! Prepare ahead of time, have a plan, have resources, defend what you've got, and don't go making any long trek to unfamiliar territory.

First of all, the discussion is a National/Global Level of a SHTF scenario. The mother of all disasters either natural or man-made like total economic collapse. In other words, the things that bring out the feeling of every man for himself. Katrina all but obliterated New Orleans physically and there have been some towns that have destroyed by F5 tornadoes (like Xenia, Ohio in 1974). But the rest of the country did fine and said "Those poor people, while continuing to dine on Big Macs and Whoppers.

The likelihood of a Natural Disaster is low. Asteroids and comets don't take out large chucks of the Earth on regular basis on the human timeline. But if they have happened before. Look at Meteor Crater or even the pot marks all over the moon for example. For the US, the two biggest fears should be a major war being fought in the US and economic collapse. And even the economy is far more dependent on masses of people panicking or other countries flat out refusing the dollar. The rich will not purposefully let their riches become worthless, just like none of us would let our treasured items go to waste such as a gun or knife.

Two things to consider about The Hills/The Deep Woods. Your best chance of survival other than being physically fit enough is to know some common to your area edible plants and how to harvest and prepare them. You can count on the deer population being reduced by 50%-75% within the first 90 days. Rabbits and squirrels will soon follow as deer become harder to find. Well live deer, I have no doubt that the woods will be full of rotten deer carcasses and their hides going to waste for the first three months. The soloing Rambos will try to take one a week if they can for as long as they can.

Fishing is a good option, except there will no longer be the stocking of lakes and streams. Over fishing will reduce that quite a bit as people will figure that fish are easier and they must still have their three hot meals a day lifestyle that they are used to having.

Shelter will be the most interesting of the aspects to consider. How many trees will be cut down trying to make large log cabins? For a single person, if your log cabin is more than 7 foot by 8 foot it is way too large. Even a family of four should be comfortable in a 8 foot by 10 foot one for many years. But still I wonder how many of the soloist will try to get by with a debris lean to as their permanent shelter? The smarter ones will go with a spider shelter design, but those are pretty easy to spot and take a lot of leaves and ground cover to build and maintain.

Even fires will be a deadly consideration. How many forest fires will happen? Mostly from catching shelters on fire. But as people become desperate for food, they may consider using fire as a hunting tool.

And as was touched upon earlier. Everyone is heading to the hills. The ones that prey off of society now are going to follow their meal tickets as well. They will smell that rabbit roasting over your fire. Your distraction of cooking and staring into the fire is a much easier target for hunting than that rabbit was to the desperate and criminally minded. Think of the role that religion plays in people's moral compasses today versus the pioneers of the 1800's.

And we have not even really spoke about the dangers of fall, winter and spring yet. In this part of Ohio, you better have enough food gathered up for winter to last you from November to May in addition to all the firewood you will use over the winter to keep warm. And that is a very long time with a lot of future planning.

For those that intend to garden in you new home in the hills. Are you going to make your Spring planting in time this year in your spot? That is assuming you have your spot picked out and a better equipped force has not taken it by the time you get there.

reply to post by DAVID64


Okay, cool. I live about halfway between you and DaddyBare - interesting that those who responded to my offer to start a small physical "chapter" to help one another are Midwesterners!

TO DADDYBARE:
I understand completely, for what it's worth. My kids are safely grown into young adults, were raised on a very small-scale "farm" (chickens, horses, dogs, cats, garden). They spent half their time with me, in that environment, and half with their other parent in an affluent suburb. I am proud that they know both lifestyles, and are competent in either situation. I of course would have preferred their family of origin had stayed intact, but in the end, they turned out great.

Cheers!

the thead does raise a point:
look at the mexican issue
the muslim issue in europe
look what happens to invaders in russia...
look at what happens when you let people move right on in:
gaza, the rezervation, south africa...zombie movies...

japan...

if you want to trash a place,
flood it with illegals/refugees first
use the services and resources up...
or, do you turn away skills, supplies, gene pool....

watcha gonna do?

they have laws:
you break quarantine
you die

I'm glad I live on the edge of civilization...
and i like it better on the outer side.

If you need a quick meal never overlook the humble dandelion! Good for whatever stereotype you happen to aspire to.

wild green primer

reply to post by Ahabstar


All great points there but I do want to add two small facts...

When the pilgrims first arrived in America they brought with them 110 women... they were wholly unprepared to last out their first winter and by spring only 6 survived... oddly enough all the children made it through?

secondly in the days before modern cook stoves... the leading cause of death among women was not childbirth but burns suffered over a fire...Fire pit or Fireplace... back then that is how they cooked a meal... those burns got infected and with no antibiotics the ladies died....

Yes History can be a great teacher...

reply to post by Danbones


Didn't Castro do something like this, I remember something along those lines, in scare face.

My dilemma is the following,.I have enough food on the farm for the survival of who has worked to make it happen. Then heaps of people turn up wanting to share the food we have. The problem is if I hand it over there will not be enough for us and it is a short term solution for the travelers, if I do not hand it over they will want to take it. On the one hand I have potential new friends and on the other a potential new problem. so what does one do. All choices would be very difficult.

reply to post by marsend


Before you provide any assistance in the way of food, and assuming the people are physically able, ask them first to do some work around the farm, and see how they respond; if it is positive, I would get them started on the work and then provide the assistance as you are able. If the answer is negative, then I would wish them well, but probably still offer them maybe one tenth of what you would do otherwise, on the theory that at least they got something from you, and would be less likely to return and steal out of anger; or perhaps offer them nothing at all. Each case would have to be decided on an individual basis...I don't think there is any one answer for this type of scenario. In the old pioneer days, people would offer to work before asking for any food or assistance, but I am not so sure that many people would today.

reply to post by manta78


You are right, however everything you have available at that point in time is finite, you might get away with being generous and or having WOFFAA's to some point, this is a numbers game. But by the end of the day, where do you draw the line, and should you have drawn this in the first instance.

You could take one perspective and feed no one, a hungry enemy may be ferocious, but if you were to siege your situation, you know they will get weaker and have less fight. I do know that being a good human is of paramount importance, but I also know that situations will shape ones ideas on being a good human. It is very difficult to be honest. Our nature is to lend a hand, but not often at the cost of one's own hand.

reply to post by marsend


Maybe I can help make your choice a little easier...
Click this link
A good many of these folks made the mistake of trusting a stranger...

As I said... hard choices are made all the harder by lack of understanding all the consequences of said choices...
cant be the good guy all the time...

reply to post by DaddyBare


Apologies duplicate post, please remove.

reply to post by DaddyBare


I figure that it would get down to their individual use, and bullets for the rest, from what I see in the world. It would be very interesting times indeed. I am glad I learn t to trap, shoot and pocket gut rabbits.

Originally posted by LargeFries
reply to post by lostsock

 

I saw hate in what I read simply because I understand what the words I read mean. I call it they way I see it. I've got nothing but love and good feelings for redneck hillbilly inbred folks who speak of toting guns, blowing up bridges and blocking roadways because they perceive the presence of people from outside their closed-off little piece of heaven as a threat. -- now THAT ignorant sample sentence is what I would type and actually feel if I had this hate inside me that you imagine. As it is, I have to stand by my post for the samples I listed above. I call it as I see it, and when I see so much thinly-veiled animosity I comment upon the display.

Again, thank you for your reply.

edit on 4/7/2011 by LargeFries because: to correct typo in 1st para.

You know what would have been hateful? I'll tell ya, and I'm a farm girl transplanted in a city (I know, don't get me started...)

It would've been hateful if all thread contributors with knowledge of rural culture had said "Heck yeah, we all have an open door policy to city-folk. Just drop by!".

Then disaster hits, Billy-city-dude remembers the kind-hearted gentlemen directing him to the hills. And Billy goes with the whole family, not knowing Billy's gonna go ka-BOOM!

Therein lies the cruelty you fear is hate. This is knowledge. Learn the difference.

reply to post by chasingbrahman


Ah a farmers daughter.... my kind of folk...

you know farmers make those hard choices everyday... cut the runt from a litter of pigs... turn the worse lying hen into Sunday supper... breading the ole milk cow not for the calf but just to keep her milk going... daily life on farm... making life and death decisions... think me, as a country boy would lose any sleep over turning away city folk.... not gonna happen

Let me also point out chasingbrahman, being a farm gal would only be annoyed at the lights going out. bet she know how to open a can without an electric can opener... use the barbecue grill to boil water for washing up or make stew. why I bet a farm gal displaced in the city would be able to scrounge enough goodies that she and her family would be quite well off... while those around her ponder the meaning of microwave popcorn... kind of extra crunchy without the power to pop it right... poor saps never thinking to pour it in a frypan...

reply to post by DaddyBare


When I first married my first wife, my parents had 3 steers they were raising. They were "pets." They followed the mowers, ate out of your hands, had names and personalities, etc. They invited us over for dinner one night, and had a nice spread of steaks. About halfway through the meal, my Dad asks my wife if the steak tasted like "chocolate." She looked confused, said no, waited a second, gagged, ran to the window and realize "Chocolate" was missing from the field!

I don't think she ever ate anything at my parent's house again!

reply to post by getreadyalready


I just bought 3 piglets...
naturally the wife and kids wanted to give them names and buy them collars...

I told them do what you want to do... but... two of those three will be living in the freezer by thanksgiving... all wrapped up neat in that white paper the butcher uses

Time will tell how that works out

reply to post by DaddyBare


What's interesting, is as a city transplant, I get to hear all kinds of interesting comments and assumptions people make about others from rural areas. And sincerely, I take no offense. As my mom always said, "When you know better, you do better". And I admit, to the untrained eye, I appear a city girl. And until someone becomes a close enough friend to be invited to my house, they never see the jeans rolled up into knickers, the compost "tea", the braids, the seedlings, and just about everything I can make on my own instead of buying being made on my own. So I get a real hoot out of replying to comments with monologues that begin with phrases like "When my dad was tilling the soil", or "I remember heading to the garden with my basket and clear instructions from my mother to pick dinner".

What is it about the joy we all feel when realizing someone never saw us coming? Must be the same pleasure one feels when realizing they did a damn good job of hiding the ammunition.