It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by chancemusky
But Obama has not made a declaration of war, so he is not outside the constitution...
Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Originally posted by loam
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1
Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
This is nothing like Iraq as the reasons for us engaging Libya now are different then Iraq as we are in there to aide and support the people in their effort to topple Ghadaffi.
Did you just arrive in this universe?
edit on 23-3-2011 by loam because: (no reason given)
Iraq was sold to us on lies and everyone and their mother nowadays knows this. Libya is directly responsible for Pan Am Flt 103 and a dozens of unmaned drone attacks upon other nations. Libya is on US DHS and CIA's "State Sponsors of Terrorism" by providing key support to al Qaida, Hezbollah.
The only nation Hussien era Iraq launched against was Iran for which they got their snotbox rocked and Kuwait which started Desert Storm on 1991.edit on 23-3-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)
This is to look at the constitutional question from a very bizarre perspective — of course the President didn’t “declare war,” he couldn’t, that’s an Article I power.
Originally posted by 46ACE
Originally posted by chancemusky
But Obama has not made a declaration of war, so he is not outside the constitution...
You're correct He didn't "declare" a war.
(see Senate Report 717, “Report Providing for the Appointment of Representatives of the United States in the Organs and Agencies of the U.N., and to Make Other Provisions with Respect to the Participation of the United States in Such Organization,” 1945)
Preventive or enforcement action ... upon the order of the Security Council would not be an act of war but would be international action for the preservation of the peace and for the purpose of preventing war. Consequently, the provisions of the Charter do not affect the exclusive power of Congress to declare war.
Originally posted by PplVSNWO
reply to post by rogerstigers
Which part of the Constitution gives the President the authority to conduct acts of war without Congressional declaration of war? Any powers not specifically giving to the President in the Constitution do not exist without amendment. A standing army is also strictly forbidden.
Originally posted by aptness
Contrary to what some are now painting the picture, Presidential power isn’t limitless and Congress is not helpless to act, if it disagrees with the President, particularly in the military arena. Congress has the power of the purse, and if it opposes and wishes to cease a military endeavor it can defund said endeavor.
TAMPA, Fla. - Vice President Joe Biden has visited the New York Yankees' spring training camp.
Biden spent around 30 minutes on the third-base side of George Steinbrenner Field on Wednesday while the Yankees were taking part in early defensive drills. He was with Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., and both wore Yankees hats.
The vice president talked with team officials, including manager Joe Girardi and spring training instructor David Wells, along with a number of players.
Originally posted by chancemusky
reply to post by EvolEric
Exactly, plus, the UN has given the go ahead, so its not just him.
Originally posted by loam
So the UN gets to decide it's ok to use US military force?
It has been understood, including by Congress, at the time of debate regarding the ratification of the UN Charter, that action pursuant to a UN resolution wouldn’t qualify as an act of war in the traditional and constitutional sense, and didn’t interfere with Congress’ exclusive power to “declare war”—
You missed the point of the post.
Originally posted by backinblack
US war planes and missiles are blowing up the military of a foreign country.. Maybe it's just me, but I call that war... They can dress it up any way they like but it's still the same thing..
The Framers were remarkably well-read men. The publicists with whom they were familiar in this area—writers like Grotius, Vattel, and Burlamaqui—all argued that a formal declaration of war was unnecessary for defensive hostilities. It was only when nations were at peace and one wished to initiate an offensive (or what we would today call an aggressive) war that it was necessary to declare war. And this distinction between the President's right to use force defensively, but requiring legislative sanction to initiate an offensive war, was evident in the debate at the Philadelphia Convention over Madison's motion to give Congress not the power "to make War," but the more narrow power "to declare War." In 1928 and again in 1945, the world community by treaty outlawed the aggressive use of force among nations, and in the process made the declaration of war clause a constitutional anachronism. It is no coincidence that no sovereign state has clearly issued a declaration of war in more than half a century ...
When the Senate consented to the ratification of the UN Charter in 1945, and Congress approved the UN Participation Act (UNPA) later that year, it is absolutely clear that they believed that international peacekeeping operations did not infringe upon their power "to declare War" and recognized instead that this was the business of the President. The unanimous report of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee urging ratification of the Charter, quoted by the unanimous report of the House Foreign Affairs Committee on the UNPA, argued that "enforcement action" pursuant to an order of the Security Council "would not be an act of war, but would be international action for the preservation of the peace," and reasoned: "Consequently, the provisions of the Charter do not affect the exclusive power of the Congress to declare war."
(see “The War Powers Resolution: An Unnecessary, Unconstitutional Source of ‘Friendly Fire’ in the War Against International Terrorism?,” Robert F. Turner, 2005, source)
During the final day of Senate consideration of the UNPA, an amendment offered by Senator Burton Wheeler requiring prior congressional approval before the President could send U.S. armed forces into harm's way, pursuant to a Security Council decision to use force to keep the peace, was denounced by the bipartisanship leadership as contrary to our Charter obligations and the President's well-established independent constitutional powers to use armed forces short of war for various reasons. In the end, the amendment received fewer than ten votes.