Sen. Joe Biden: War without Congressional Authorization is an Impeachable Offense

So rock beats sissors
Paper beats rock
Sissors beats paper
and UN/NATO beats the U.S. Constitution.

Got it.

Originally posted by beezzer
So rock beats sissors
Paper beats rock
Sissors beats paper
and UN/NATO beats the U.S. Constitution.

Got it.

NO, the President beats the US constitution...

Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by beezzer
So rock beats sissors
Paper beats rock
Sissors beats paper
and UN/NATO beats the U.S. Constitution.

Got it.

NO, the President beats the US constitution...

*sigh*
No truer words have ever been spoken.

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
It is becuase of the UN is why the US currently is not engaging either Iran or North Korea by now because if you got 6 of the top 8 militaries on Earth leveraging you means you can't do jack.

Quoting this, because I just can't believe you believe this.

Really????

The United States was infomed by both Russia and China that "If we made a play for The Middle East like Germany did to Europe during WWII make no mistake we will stop you". This prevented an even worse situation from popping off as there have been plans in draft and draw up since the 1980's to invade Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Palestine and this prevented the expansion of The American Empire which was slowly building up.

All to stop a transnational pipeline that was supposed to run from China to Israel.

We were not going to start the new century with an Empire as our empires are built upon financa and no longer war.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Iraq was sold to us on lies and everyone and their mother nowadays knows this. Libya is directly responsible for Pan Am Flt 103 and a dozens of unmaned drone attacks upon other nations.

The only nation Hussien era Iraq launched against was Iran for which they got their snotbox rocked and Kuwait which started Desert Storm on 1991.

Dude, you have an odd notion about the comparative scale of things.

This is the entire deal between The US and UN in a nutshell :

Yes it does as in most cases the UN takes orders from the US and not the other way around. Why else do you think their HQ sits in NYC for? This is proof we own them. Remember when the UN rejected our proposal to invade Iraq but we went anyhow without one sanction, action being levied against us? This is the proof.

The UN Charter does not supercede the US Constitution as if any conflictions on domestic matters the Constitution is law but on International matters The Charter is law. That is how both works. The way the one poster is saying is how the EU works and not The USA as too much of the UN's architecture and infastructure globally is based and hq'd out of the USA. So who is who's puppet?

This is why the EU can't get their things together because they are trying to install a Supranational Constitution that supercedes and dissovles every National Constitution that is currently in play.

Every member nation of The UN still owns, controls it's own independant Soveriegnty and retains it's Soveriegn Rights.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by dethduck
So, where the hell was this sentiment back in 2003 when that administration lied us into Iraq?
Politicians, the very definition of hypocrites!

This is nothing like Iraq as the reasons for us engaging Libya now are different then Iraq as we are in there to aide and support the people in their effort to topple Ghadaffi.

Yes, the circumstances are different, but the substance of Biden's commentary is not. What has happened this far in Libya was a police action on behest of the UN not unlike has been done innumerable times in the last 30 or so years.
What happened in 2003 was an illegal, unilateral, unconstitutional declaration of war against a sovereign nation, however despotic, that shortly thereafter was openly revealed to be forwarded through blatant deceit and deception and somehow was still allowed to continue.
Yet, Vice President Biden didn't seem to feel that was impeachable?
How short can our memory truly be?

reply to post by backinblack


Hey, its not beating it. Its making exceptions, for the good of the poeple. RIght? Right?
I mean, they wouldnt be UNFAIR, would they?!

Originally posted by dethduck

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by dethduck
So, where the hell was this sentiment back in 2003 when that administration lied us into Iraq?
Politicians, the very definition of hypocrites!

This is nothing like Iraq as the reasons for us engaging Libya now are different then Iraq as we are in there to aide and support the people in their effort to topple Ghadaffi.

Yes, the circumstances are different, but the substance of Biden's commentary is not. What has happened this far in Libya was a police action on behest of the UN not unlike has been done innumerable times in the last 30 or so years. What happened in 2003 was an illegal, unilateral, unconditional declaration of war against a sovereign nation, however despotic, that shortly thereafter was openly revealed to be forwarded through blatant deceit and deception and somehow was still allowed to continue.
Yet, Vice President Biden didn't seem to feel that was impeachable?
How short can our memory truly be?

No formal and official Declearation Of War has been issued by the US so with that in mind nullifies the impeachability aspect. So sorry, try again. What I am saying is fact and law and not just another mindless and moronic opinion. Got it? End of discussion.

Another Right Winger using yet another futile and frankly pitiful attempt to attack or beride the nation. Yet another person who puts party above nation and totally disregards the law.

Actually NO the UN cannot in fact DIRECT american armed forces without the Permission of the congress and senate!

Who told you this? Our constitution Supercedes ALL treaties we sign and treaties that are signed that will in some way circumvent constitutional law are illegal.

No obama CANNOT just get the permission of the international community and not have to worry about congress!!

I truly hope that this will start to erode the unquestioning support of some in the democratic party as obama has shown total disregard for the way things are SUPPOSED to be done by the US government.

While a president CAN technically commit forces in certain circumstances they are very limited and tradition states that at the very least they work to build some sort of working bipartisan consensus before committing forces.

The fact that he thinks it's ok to take action without building consensus should be a HUGE wake up call!
Even Iraq was agreed to by congress!

I mean really? it's so hilarious how obama supporters have resorted to using Shrub jr. as the bar they judge obama by! And even more amazing that he shows even more disregard for the common good and consensus building than bush jr (who I almost MISS sometimes after the last few years)

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
No formal and official Declearation Of War has been issued by the US so with that in mind nullifies the impeachability aspect.

Which was half the problem with...of what was it we call it? Oh yes, I remember, "The Iraq War!"

So sorry, try again. What I am saying is fact and law and not just another mindless and moronic opinion.

Yes, thank you for that summation

Got it? End of discussion.

Not likely.

Another Right Winger using yet another futile and frankly pitiful attempt to attack or beride the nation.

You, Sir, know nothing of my political leanings as I know nothing of yours, but by all means feel free to attack someone who disagrees or has differing opinions with insults. However, I take umbrage with the notion that I "beride (did you mean 'deride'?) and attack" the nation. What I do do is question, deride and yes, sometimes, even attack the way with which politicians handle this nation's government.

Yet another person who puts party above nation and totally disregards the

Just for the record Oh He With Such Skills of Divination, I am neither right or left wing, conservative or liberal, republican or democrat and quite to the contrary, I put the nation above the two-headed single party politicians that practice the illusion of division, thank you.

Originally posted by dethduck

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
No formal and official Declearation Of War has been issued by the US so with that in mind nullifies the impeachability aspect.

Which was half the problem with...of what was it we call it? Oh yes, I remember, "The Iraq War!"

So sorry, try again. What I am saying is fact and law and not just another mindless and moronic opinion.

Yes, thank you for that summation

Got it? End of discussion.

Not likely.

Another Right Winger using yet another futile and frankly pitiful attempt to attack or beride the nation.

You, Sir, know nothing of my political leanings as I know nothing of yours, but by all means feel free to attack someone who disagrees or has differing opinions with insults. However, I take umbrage with the notion that I "beride (did you mean 'deride'?) and attack" the nation. What I do do is question, deride and yes, sometimes, even attack the way with which politicians handle this nation's government.

Yet another person who puts party above nation and totally disregards the

Just for the record Oh He With Such Skills of Divination, I am neither right or left wing, conservative or liberal, republican or democrat and quite to the contrary, I put the nation above the two-headed single party politicians that practice the illusion of division, thank you.

edit on 3/23/2011 by dethduck because: (no reason given)

edit on 3/23/2011 by dethduck because: Grammar

edit on 3/23/2011 by dethduck because: Ditto

edit on 3/23/2011 by dethduck because: (no reason given)

This is Europe's show and not ours and our involvement concludes in less then a month so if we are still there come May or June then complain but until then hold them accountable for this. Iraq was our show and not The UN's which required The Congress to go into emergency session about 3 days after we invaded.

My political elaning does not mean jack squat because I unlike most morons and idiots will always place NATION ABOVE PARTY!!!!

My stance on this entire ordeal is what the law reads and since no official declaration has been given The Congress need not involve itself. Politics has no bearing and place here.

Quit letting FOX News tell you people what to think.

I mean, from what I read in this thread I thought I was reading a bunch of Quadaffi suporters. I guess you all are fine with Quadaffi killing his people. God forid we do what the right wingers wanted three weeks ago and establish a no fly zone.



Again, apparently a no fly zone is a good idea unless it's Obama who does it.

From my understanding of things from over the pond. It seems Obama has been very reluctant to get involved in Libya and it has infact been the UK and France being the ones pushing for the no fly zone.

It is all very well have the Brits and the French call for action, but not have the ability/funds to carry it out. The operation is extremely reliant on American military assistance and it's understandable America being reluctant to lead this operation and get too involved. You then have the Arab League calling for the NFZ and only having 2 countries committing 4 planes. It's a joke.

Leave it to the Arabs to sort it out in their own way, at lest then we cant be accused of meddling in the affairs of other countries and cant be accused of some colonial\crusade

if the president is charged to uphold the constitution they (being the president) are expected to make decisions that are necessary and instant to maintain said constitution bearing all that the president is briefed upon. if the vice president believes the congress is the only portion of american government that is fit to declare war he is mistaken. in america the peoples the peoples elect and the person charged with being the presider of the people have the right to declare war.

his professions bring to light fractions of who best to allow within a constitutional government the power to enact freedom as it best fits the whole of its body. if i say the people can only bear arms for the sake of home defense and personal hunting on private lands i am taking away the power the people have been vested for my own use of dictation of infraction on their said rights. if i say the congress cannot declare an infraction on constitutional rights that are befit war (within or without its borders) then i state the congress does not have the oversight to check the balance of power that is granted an elected pursuant said due charge. if i state that a president is the only official capable of declaring constitutional war then i propose that a president is reactive to the information he is privy and not actively assuming his charge as an active presider over the persons constitutionally held or constitutionally bound.

id prefer congress actively sought war pertaining infractions of constitutionalism within its charge ( america only). id prefer if citizens were well equipped with the knowledge necessary to seek war where it matters without infringement of their right to do so (within their own minds and hearts). id prefer the president to seek war on all enemies within their sight that infringes upon the right of the congress and the people to uphold their constitutional charge.

if a president can be impeached as an act of congress what can a person do to a congress member that is equal and what can a president do to a citizen that is equal to that? the repercussion of what dictates an impeachment and its resultant effects should be equal across the board.

Good catch (again)! S&F

Looks like Joe knows he has a job to do.

This could be how Biden (his time) finally gets the job he wants - president.

Joe, time to get to work!

Originally posted by whatukno
Quit letting FOX News tell you people what to think.

And what will you be willing to give up in return?

MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, HuffPo, NY Times, LA Times ...

No, it would have to be all of them - to equal the ratings of Fox News (fair and balanced).

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


I would like to see your reaction about no fly zone above Jersey City, NJ (your location)

I guess Joe's comment only applies when
there's a Republican in the WH.

Related thread, why we're really in Libya
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by whatukno
God forid we do what the right wingers wanted three weeks ago and establish a no fly zone

Again, apparently a no fly zone is a good idea unless it's Obama who does it.

God dammit man, when are you going to learn, here on ATS -- while I admit there are still far too many fools who buy into the whole left vs right paradigm -- the good majority are sufficient enough in intelligence to see that both sides of the aisle are -- in media as it is in politics -- bad, bad, bad apples! BOTH SIDES.

You come here and throw your little jabs to the left, and as clever and powerful as your jabs may be, they make NO impact on the majority of us here who see through the BS that is both democrats AND republicans.

We're talking about human lives here, not the game of politics!
What is going on is wrong and needs to be stopped. Plain and simple.