Religion may become extinct in nine nations, study says

Originally posted by ButterCookie

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

I wonder which religion are you reffering to cuz most of the ones I know are big on helping people materially, physically and most of all spiritually.

Is it all, majority or just a few?

thx,
edmc2

Good point! Mainly Christianity

Curious ButterCookie - are you saying that we are better off if Christianity disappear on the face of the earth? You mean you are willing to go under Sharia law? Will it be better to be under the rule of Islam?
Or how about Buddhism, Shintoism, Taoism, Animism, etc?

thx,
edmc2

reply to post by MrXYZ


You said:

Also, I think it's laughable that some people in here (edmc2) talk about morality as if religion was required for that. It is NOT required to act morally!! If your assertion was correct, all non-believers would be savages...but this articles proves that's not the case, on the contrary. Many of the most developed countries see a drastic decline in religious believers, but it doesn't result in an increase in crimes or bad behaviour.

Apparently you did no read what I said MrXYZ - I'm not surprised but anyway just to let you know here's what I said to bogomil:

I qoute myself:

As for morality amongst the "lost" - I don't pass judgment, in fact there are non-believers or those who you call "lost" who are more righteous than those who profess to be Christians. If you go back to what I said - there are religious leaders who don't even consider sin a sin per the scriptures. Since they know what the scriptures say they already judge themselves for they make the word of God invalid and make a mockery of Jesus' sacrifice. Responsible for alienating the many.

I'm still looking at your post and reply to it more later...

thx,
edmc2

reply to post by edmc^2


Well, in your first reply you also wrote:

Another factor that's conditioning the masses to this eventual fulfilment is morality. From young ones to adult, morality is no longer the norm. A huge number of young adults the world over lack morality - they see life as if there no real value. And see the future as bleak due to world conditions and events.On this the major religious organizations of the world has failed miserably. Instead of educating their members, they use them for political and social campaigns. Sad part is they failed to educate their members with regards to "SIN".

Right after complaining how people leave religion behind...as if this would result in less of a moral education.

reply to post by edmc^2

Curious ButterCookie - are you saying that we are better off if Christianity disappear on the face of the earth? You mean you are willing to go under Sharia law? Will it be better to be under the rule of Islam?
Or how about Buddhism, Shintoism, Taoism, Animism, etc?

Why do you assume leaving Christianity means joining another religion? And what's the crazy talk about Sharia law? So if Christianity disappears, our laws will be replaced by Sharia...that's simply not gonna happen.

reply to post by Extralien
Well now, if anyone ever wondered why the number drastically differed between sides of the holy war (not the silly jihad, but the actual holy war - the one that comes from religious minority in a secular world), all they'd have to do would be to look at this article

Will share! thank you, Extralien

reply to post by MrXYZ
"Why do you assume leaving Christianity means joining another religion??

Because it usually does. Atheism is a religion by definition too, despite how few will admit it.

Originally posted by Debunker75
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

"Why do you assume leaving Christianity means joining another religion??

Because it usually does. Atheism is a religion by definition too, despite how few will admit it.

Religion requires faith...atheism by its very definition is the ABSENCE OF A BELIEF IN DEITY.

So you're mistaken if you believe atheism's a religion

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Well, in your first reply you also wrote:

Another factor that's conditioning the masses to this eventual fulfilment is morality. From young ones to adult, morality is no longer the norm. A huge number of young adults the world over lack morality - they see life as if there no real value. And see the future as bleak due to world conditions and events.On this the major religious organizations of the world has failed miserably. Instead of educating their members, they use them for political and social campaigns. Sad part is they failed to educate their members with regards to "SIN".

Right after complaining how people leave religion behind...as if this would result in less of a moral education.

It's no t a complaint MrXYZ - just stating the facts. That's all - if you want to do a little test - ask around and you'll get a blank stare.

thx,
edmc2

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Curious ButterCookie - are you saying that we are better off if Christianity disappear on the face of the earth? You mean you are willing to go under Sharia law? Will it be better to be under the rule of Islam?
Or how about Buddhism, Shintoism, Taoism, Animism, etc?

Why do you assume leaving Christianity means joining another religion? And what's the crazy talk about Sharia law? So if Christianity disappears, our laws will be replaced by Sharia...that's simply not gonna happen.

Missed the point again MrXYZ - if Christianity dissapears on earth, Islam will be the dominant religion thus Sharia will be inforce whether you're a beliver or not - if you're an infidel - according to what they say - too bad for you.

Not gonna happen? Europe now and the near future. Since Christianity is no longer regarded as an important religion, Sharia law is now gaining momentum. How many more years does Europe has before they are able to resist.

bogomil should be able to let us know if indeed Christianity will make a comeback in Europe.

Asia - name one.

Middle East - name a Christian country.

Africa - name one.

Put these so called Christian nations against Islam, how do they fare?

So it's not a matter of joining one - as in the case of Christianity. It's matter of being forced into one.

But since the trend is to remove religion in the face of the earth - then all religion will be a target. And like what I said - Islam will fight to the end.

Q is who will go against them, who has the power to inforce such a law an international law?

You MrXYZ?

txs,
edmc2

reply to post by edmc^2


You wrote:

["bogomil should be able to let us know if indeed Christianity will make a comeback in Europe."]

For reasons stated often and elsewhere, I doubt very much if christianity in any of its forms will be more than a minority ideology in the future (....that I can speculate about. I'm not a prophet with 'absolutes').

And as I have said in this context, the reason is that secularism as either a lifestyle or as an ideology simply attracts contemporary mankind more. For the same reasons Islam will be rejected in Europe on par with the christianities. According to european standards, we actually have some pretty strong political movements, which are culturally nationalistic, rejecting the invasive parts of Islam rather insistently.

Quote:

[" Asia - name one.

Middle East - name a Christian country.

Africa - name one."]

Personally I don't understand the purpose of this comment. If I should say: "Name one country in Europe or the Americas being buddhistic", would an answer examplify or demonstrate anything.

So sorry, but I see this as an expression of the christian persecution complex.

Quote: ["But since the trend is to remove religion in the face of the earth - then all religion will be a target."]

How so 'REMOVE'?? Only invasive, monopoly-seeking extremist-religion is exposed to any strong opposition (just as nazism and stalinism were eventually). The average egalitarian-minded religionists are not 'victims'. You're only trying to make yourself a spokesperson for the whole category of religion, and it may have escaped your attention, that some non-invasive christians on ATS are beginning to protest against this 'maneuver'.

Quote: ["And like what I said - Islam will fight to the end."]

The Jihad part, completely identical to e.g. 'christian soldiers' or the christian part of KKK.

Personally my own impression of the majority of religionists is, that they are perfectly capable of living in reasonable peace with the rest of mankind. It's your ilk creating the problems and also giving religion a bad name.

reply to post by edmc^2


You make it sound as if it's Christianity "fighting back Sharia", and that we'd be overrun without it...that's CRAZY TALK!

We have laws in plays in the west that make it 100% impossible for Sharia law to ever supersede our western laws. And if Christian members drop, those people will likely become atheists if they left Christianity for its obvious logic/rationality flaws...and not join Islam, which is equally as illogical as Christianity. And those "new" atheists probably won't be too happy about anyone pushing religious-based laws on them

I can't believe you make it sound as if it's some "Lord of the rings"-style fight of good versus evil...that's laughable.

reply to post by bogomil

Personally my own impression of the majority of religionists is, that they are perfectly capable of living in reasonable peace with the rest of mankind. It's your ilk creating the problems and also giving religion a bad name.

my "ilk" - you must have mistaken me for someone else. May I know specifically what you're referring too?

why the personal attack?

thx,
edmc2

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by ButterCookie

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

I wonder which religion are you reffering to cuz most of the ones I know are big on helping people materially, physically and most of all spiritually.

Is it all, majority or just a few?

thx,
edmc2

Good point! Mainly Christianity

Curious ButterCookie - are you saying that we are better off if Christianity disappear on the face of the earth? You mean you are willing to go under Sharia law? Will it be better to be under the rule of Islam?
Or how about Buddhism, Shintoism, Taoism, Animism, etc?

thx,

edmc2

edit on 28-3-2011 by edmc^2 because: (no reason given)

Honestly, ALL of them

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by edmc^2

 

You make it sound as if it's Christianity "fighting back Sharia", and that we'd be overrun without it...that's CRAZY TALK!

We have laws in plays in the west that make it 100% impossible for Sharia law to ever supersede our western laws. And if Christian members drop, those people will likely become atheists if they left Christianity for its obvious logic/rationality flaws...and not join Islam, which is equally as illogical as Christianity. And those "new" atheists probably won't be too happy about anyone pushing religious-based laws on them

I can't believe you make it sound as if it's some "Lord of the rings"-style fight of good versus evil...that's laughable.

"Christianity "fighting back Sharia" - no, not Christianity but "Christendom" fighting back Sharia.

Christianity founded by Jesus is based on love but Christendom who profess to be Christian(inty) - is the one that sends its soldiers to fight.

But as far as the decline of Christianity in the west - that seems to be the trend - more and more people are becoming athiest due to the things being done in the name of religion and because of the so called "enlightenment". But the fact is in the Muslim world - they see the west as a threat to their form of riligion and they stated that will do all they can to protect it. Of course the west does not see that way and don't want to see it that way. Infact some think the 911 was a fluke or an inside job that it will not happen again.


But as far as I'm concern - the real King warior Jesus will eventually put an end to all of these things. To his true followers, he said not get involve in any carnal warfare for the fight is with him. Their main work is to proclaim the good news of his kingdom. Also the fight is spiritual, against the spritual forces that are influencing the world (Ephesians 6:11-13) - for which I think you don't have understanding.

thx,
edmc2

Originally posted by ButterCookie

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by ButterCookie

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

I wonder which religion are you reffering to cuz most of the ones I know are big on helping people materially, physically and most of all spiritually.

Is it all, majority or just a few?

thx,
edmc2

Good point! Mainly Christianity

Curious ButterCookie - are you saying that we are better off if Christianity disappear on the face of the earth? You mean you are willing to go under Sharia law? Will it be better to be under the rule of Islam?
Or how about Buddhism, Shintoism, Taoism, Animism, etc?

thx,

edmc2

edit on 28-3-2011 by edmc^2 because: (no reason given)

Honestly, ALL of them

So you want a Godless world?

By your statement you pretty much lump ALL people - even honesthearted ones whose motive is to help. They are motivated by their faith to help their fellowman - and you want these people gone too - or thier faith?

Happily though, not gonna happen - it will take an act of God for that to happen.


thx,
edmc2

reply to post by edmc^2

Christianity founded by Jesus is based on love but Christendom who profess to be Christian(inty) - is the one that sends its soldiers to fight.

What the hell are you talking about??? What soldiers? Sharia doesn't supersede our western laws because of secular laws that prevent it from doing so...not because of some "holy soldiers". What an absurd idea...we live in the 21st century for crying out loud, not the middle ages. This isn't some weird "the crusades" Christendom vs Islam scenario, we're not playing dungeons and dragos. Look at reality!

I'm having a hard time taking you serious if you write stuff like that. Listen to yourself, you're talking about Christian soldiers fighting back so Sharia law doesn't take over...that's nuts. I'm not attacking you, but this claim is beyond hogwash, and I'm surprised you're going that far...

But as far as the decline of Christianity in the west - that seems to be the trend - more and more people are becoming athiest due to the things being done in the name of religion and because of the so called "enlightenment".

True...child molesting priests certainly didn't help. But someone could always argue "they aren't real Christians" (like when that evangelist shot Tiller) and sort of get out of it. Either way, a lot of the bad stuff churches have done has been common knowledge for decades, but if you check the statistics, you'll realize that the atheist movement only really gained steam over the past 20yrs...it seemed to have happened when the Internet came up. The Internet offers cheap education that's very accessible, so many believers realize what hogwash global floods, a denial of evolution, or talking snakes are. Education levels are rising all over the place...

But the fact is in the Muslim world - they see the west as a threat to their form of riligion and they stated that will do all they can to protect it. Of course the west does not see that way and don't want to see it that way. Infact some think the 911 was a fluke or an inside job that it will not happen again.

Only a TINY minority of Muslims are extremists who wanna do that. The large majority aren't all that different from us, they just wanna make sure their families have a good life, job security, health, and so on. You might wanna watch Anthony Bourdain's trip to Saudi Arabia...you'll realize the people aren't families there aren't much different from us. I've been to the Middle East plenty of times, even to Saudi Arabia during ramadan...and even though I'm a filthy atheist and people knew that, I'm still alive and no one blew me up.



Oh, and just FYI, many Arabs want the same as us...MONEY. I've done business with many Muslim business men, and they all curse the extremists because it's bad for business. They don't wanna live in tents, they wanna drive nice cars and live in nice houses...just like us. And not one Muslim I met abroad has even tried to convert me...apart from one guy who offered me a job in Makkah under the condition that I convert. I obviously declined

But as far as I'm concern - the real King warior Jesus will eventually put an end to all of these things. To his true followers, he said not get involve in any carnal warfare for the fight is with him. Their main work is to proclaim the good news of his kingdom. Also the fight is spiritual, against the spritual forces that are influencing the world (Ephesians 6:11-13) - for which I think you don't have understanding.

No scientific backup for any of that whatsoever...but I guess, if it makes you happy, whatever. Sadly it also seems to turn you into a bit of an racist when it comes to Muslims.

For comedic value:

Ups

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by Debunker75
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

"Why do you assume leaving Christianity means joining another religion??

Because it usually does. Atheism is a religion by definition too, despite how few will admit it.

Religion requires faith...atheism by its very definition is the ABSENCE OF A BELIEF IN DEITY.

So you're mistaken if you believe atheism's a religion

I'm well aware of what Atheism means lol It's what 'religion' means that I'm talking about.
Webster's dictionary defines 'religion' as the following:

1. a : the state of a religious

reply to post by Debunker75

To uphold a lack of belief in deity is to hold a belief

Reread what you just wrote, it's beyond hilarious. So an absence of belief requires belief. So a dead man needs to be alive to be dead? And a hungry man needs to be fully fed to be hungry?

That makes no sense whatsoever

...the reason is that secularism as either a lifestyle or as an ideology simply attracts contemporary mankind more.

part of it imho is also is lazyness and accountability. For it takes a huge amount of time to be dedicated to it and many don't want and unwilling to devote the time to be in the Christian ministry - let alone reading the Bible. Many don't want to be accountable for their actions. They also see religion as an impedement to progress and see it as antiquated. But in spite of the decline - there are still people who are willing to make the sacrifice.

For the same reasons Islam will be rejected in Europe on par with the christianities. According to european standards, we actually have some pretty strong political movements, which are culturally nationalistic, rejecting the invasive parts of Islam rather insistently.

That's what's seems to be the motivating factor - the political and the nationalistic groups are against Islam. But Islam is not just a religion but an ideology that has the will and the strength to continue and flourish. Time is also a big factor - and Europe seems to be running out it. If the population's only motivation is political, materialistic and nationalistic will it have the stomach to reject a very strong and determined idealogy / religion? I guess time wil tell (which is running out).

Quote:

[" Asia - name one.

Middle East - name a Christian country.

Africa - name one."]

Personally I don't understand the purpose of this comment. If I should say: "Name one country in Europe or the Americas being buddhistic", would an answer examplify or demonstrate anything.

I'm simply stating that Christianity is a minoriy on these continents /or part of the world. Us such their influence is not as strong as that of Islam.

So sorry, but I see this as an expression of the C

It's not a "christian persecution complex" if you're the one being persecuted. But again that's not the point of my reply.

Quote: ["But since the trend is to remove religion in the face of the earth - then all religion will be a target."]

How so 'REMOVE'??

I said trend - especially folks here on ATS - they are trending more and more on the removal of "organized" religion.

Only invasive, monopoly-seeking extremist-religion is exposed to any strong opposition (just as nazism and stalinism were eventually).
Quote: ["And like what I said - Islam will fight to the end."]

The average egalitarian-minded religionists are not 'victims'. You're only trying to make yourself a spokesperson for the whole category of religion, and it may have escaped your attention, that some non-invasive christians on ATS are beginning to protest against this 'maneuver'.

Of course, "the average egalitarian-minded religionists" are not 'victims' but are are the forefront of showing the precepts of Christianity. But even with that destinction, they are still considered religious nuts. Just by the mention of the name Jesus Christ, they are branded as unlightened and uninformed - believing on a "sky-daddy" or a "flying spaghetti".

As for the extremist - you know who they are but again - ALL Christians are branded as one.

Hopefully, the liberal frame of mind is more open minded on this issue.

btw - who made me a "spokesperson for the whole category of religion"? I'm not one and don't want to be one. There are members here that are more qualified in that category - but a messenger/preacher of Jesus and Jehovah/Yahweh - of course.

The Jihad part, completely identical to e.g. 'christian soldiers' or the christian part of KKK.

Sadly even the "egalitarian-minded religionists" are lumped in as one when bad things happen especially when the perpetrator claims to be a "Christian". The are looked at by the society as bigots and unreasonable.

But I think you don't see it that way.

thx,
edmc2

reply to post by MrXYZ

What the hell are you talking about??? What soldiers? Sharia doesn't supersede our western laws because of secular laws that prevent it from doing so...not because of some "holy soldiers". What an absurd idea...we live in the 21st century for crying out loud, not the middle ages. This isn't some weird "the crusades" Christendom vs Islam scenario, we're not playing dungeons and dragos. Look at reality!

My apologies if you interpreted it that way - but what I'm saying is that the Christian nations (Christendom) are ones sending out soliers to other countries esp Middle East. This is seen as fighting against their religion.

On the other side of the coin - many religious leaders / even military deacons/priests have this idea that they are fighting to secure this country and at the same time preventing the spread of Sharia. I've seen several yt here showing "Christian soldiers" in the ME - distributing Bibles to the people - this is seen as trying to subvert their religion. Result a backlash - weapon on one hand - bible on the other hand.

Do you disagree?

thx,
edmc2