Religion may become extinct in nine nations, study says

A study using census data from nine countries shows that religion there is set for extinction, say researchers. The study found a steady rise in those claiming no religious affiliation. The team's mathematical model attempts to account for the interplay between the number of religious respondents and the social motives behind being one. The result, reported at the American Physical Society meeting in Dallas, US, indicates that religion will all but die out altogether in those countries.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Oh boy, This is going to throw the cat among the pigeons... and IMO, about time too.
Think i gave up all religion when I was about 15
Add to that the amount of people I've met over the years who have gone the same way, it's possible that this census info is not as completely accurate as some of us may like.

I can only think of many reasons why so many are turning away from religion.. it doesn't answer anything, it doesn't solve problems, prayers go unanswered, the "Gods" (as there are many) never show up, everyone's waiting for some messiah to return but never does.. Religion causes more wars, pain, suffering and corruption than any other field. we've only got to look at the history of sexual abuse carried out by members of the cloth..

Even today we have a pope with links to a Nazi past.. then there is the "Nanny state" making hospitals remove Christian crosses in case it offends other religions.. Yet, according to some reports, Muslims seem to be taking over the world.. Hatred towards other particular religious groups, especially one that was focused upon heavily during WW2 still seems to be very existent.

Spirituality may be the new way forward, the belief, or idea of a universal, powerful force (ie, Jedi) could be growing its roots far deeper into society than any church would like.

What strikes me is that several religions talk about enemies..and will use the mask of 'holy war', 'crusades' and outright hatred towards others in an attempt to convert people.

My mind races over pages and pages of history where advanced cultures spread their fleets across the globe and discovered other cultures and 'converted' them to a religion which did nothing more than control them and take away cultural identities and instill the fear of eternal damnation and hell fire..

The extinction of religion might take a while yet.. But personally, I can't wait. The sooner the better..
We might get to see the end of many a war and it might lead towards a greater understanding of each other.

Some of the teachings of religion, like love thy neighbour, are beneficial to everyone, but we don't need a religion in order to support this concept. All it takes is a bit of understanding and faith in humanity, rather than focusing any faith in a non existent entity, or some old book that put together out of many stories and heavily edited by those who sought to control others with it

Bye bye religion.. and good riddance

reply to post by Extralien


Not entirely true, most wars now have nothing to do with religion , instead now war is declared in the sake of greed, oil, land, money, power...

reply to post by Mentalistbee


In comparison, these 'new' wars for oil and the like, are relatively new. We may see more of them in the future.. possibly even over water much later on..

Control of resources is what these wars. religious or not, are all about anyway.. be it gold, oil, people, land..

But let's not forget this current war on terrorism... one side seems to be attacking only the countries that have oil, whilst the other side seems to be having a 'holy war'.. so that's a bit of a mixed state of affairs..

reply to post by Extralien


As you mentioned, they see it as a holy war, so doesn't this give you the idea that they're faith, is still pretty strong? Considering they would suicide bomb themselves for their lord...

reply to post by Mentalistbee


Yet many of the same group are against the wars and do their best to have no affiliation with it but are still tarred with the same brush..

This just adds to one of the reasons, possibly, why so many turn away from their ways towards something different..

Why be a part of something that you feel to be wrong or disagree with?

If you have the religious idea that God sees everything and provides, then you find he forgets his role, then your so-called faith will wane. Personally if this is accurate perhaps our royalty could go the same way to.

Originally posted by Lynda101
Personally if this is accurate perhaps our royalty could go the same way to.

Now that would be nice
It would be another nail in the coffin for either of these groups if one falls.

I believe Nepal was the most recent to become "royalty free"...

KATMANDU, Nepal — Nepal's deposed king gave up his crown of peacock feathers, yak hair and jewels on Wednesday and left his palace forever.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Even here in the UK, many see the Royal family as a waste of space, tax payers money and just an tourist attraction these days.. i laugh at the way the media are doing their best to hype up the up-coming wedding..

reply to post by Extralien


Non affliated to one particular church or temple does not mean religion is dying out.

If for example one turns athiest.....there are at least 100 more babies born that are affliated.

What a great thread and all i can say is it's about time. Pretty much all religions appear to be related anyway- they share most of the same tales but with regional spins on them. Even Christianity can be traced back to the Cult of Amen Ra (holy trinity, etc) and that is basically a sun cult.
I have long believed that religion is a very old form of social control aimed at preventing us from going wild. Sadly, this was probably required (could be argued that we still need to be prevented from going wild when you see the news everyday).
For what its worth, when you look at the universe and the way in which things inetract, i believe we should probably all be worshipping Chaos anyway!

Originally posted by Extralien

Originally posted by Lynda101
Personally if this is accurate perhaps our royalty could go the same way to.

Now that would be nice

It would be another nail in the coffin for either of these groups if one falls.

I believe Nepal was the most recent to become "royalty free"...

KATMANDU, Nepal — Nepal's deposed king gave up his crown of peacock feathers, yak hair and jewels on Wednesday and left his palace forever.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Even here in the UK, many see the Royal family as a waste of space, tax payers money and just an tourist attraction these days.. i laugh at the way the media are doing their best to hype up the up-coming wedding..

Tom Araya said it best in chorus, though the lyrics were made by Kerry King. Anyway, why would you even need religion when there's a better alternative known as empathy, which the heads of religion obviously have none, otherwise they wouldn't be involved in such a racket of control? Mental tyranny is one of if not the worst form of tyranny if you ask me.

Originally posted by Mentalistbee
reply to post by Extralien

 

Not entirely true, most wars now have nothing to do with religion , instead now war is declared in the sake of greed, oil, land, money, power...

I have actually just realised something, you are correct. we have been incorrectly blaming religion for wars etc, When really in that regard religion is just like science, It is a tool to be used. Just like science it can be used for "good" or for "evil". Scientific method helps people create treatments & cures, build housing & creates food, but is also used to create weapons & poisons. Religion can be used to spread peace & love, but is also used to spread hatred & mistrust.

The outcome of science is FACT, the outcome of religion is CONTROL. The religions did not cause the wars, the people using it for their own gain did!

Its also worth pointing out we dont need religion any longer now in the western world as we have TV to tell us what to do. (this IMO is why "less developed" countries tend to be far more religious, not enough TV to effectively control the masses!)

I have looked briefly at the paper itself, which includes supplementary technical material (follow the link from the BBC news story in the OP).

The biggest surface problem is that the model assumes group competition. But religious non-affiliation is not a "group" in the sense that a religion is, or that a linguistic community is. Board atheists here at ATS regularly insist that their religious belief system is not to be considered a religion, and atheists are not the only kind of non-affiliator.

Apart from the possible inapplicability of the fertile "competition" analogy, a large pool of unaffiliated people may simply be the "uninfecteds" in a contagion process. The decline in existing religions, then, may lay the groundwork for the emergence of new ones.

Speaking of which, the second biggest problem with the model is that the stock of available languages is closed. Truly new languages are vanishingly rare (although pidgins and creoles, versions of existing languages, do come and go), and artificial languages don't seem to catch on. In contrast, new religions are easily crafted, and some "artficial" religions obviously have done very nicely indeed (for "artificial" substitute "revealed").

A third problem is that there is more than one way to affiliate with a religion. Linguistic affiliation typically demands regular and sustained involvement with the language. With religion, you can pass the time "unaffiliated" except for weddings, funerals, a few holidays a year, and then suddenly a life crisis comes along, and who you gonna call? Richard Dawkins?

Finally, "extinction" seems to be more in the mind of the headline writer than the authors of the paper. They do use the "E-word," but suitably weaseled:

The model predicts that for societies in which the perceived utility of not adhering is greater than the utility of adhering, religion will be driven toward extinction.

Well, isn't that the truth? And "toward" extinction? Is that not the bold pronouncement, "If present trends continue, then present trends will continue?"

Non-linear dynamics is interesting because of the richness of model behavior it can achieve with a small number of parameters and simple functional forms. It does not, however, open the door to the future. That door is closed, except to the superstitious and the specially gifted, neither of whom characteristically hang out at physics conferences.

-

Originally posted by Extralien

Originally posted by Lynda101
Personally if this is accurate perhaps our royalty could go the same way to.

Now that would be nice

It would be another nail in the coffin for either of these groups if one falls.

I believe Nepal was the most recent to become "royalty free"...

KATMANDU, Nepal — Nepal's deposed king gave up his crown of peacock feathers, yak hair and jewels on Wednesday and left his palace forever.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Even here in the UK, many see the Royal family as a waste of space, tax payers money and just an tourist attraction these days.. i laugh at the way the media are doing their best to hype up the up-coming wedding..

Sorry my compurter and I are having a relationship breakdown over our posts. My fault I must improve my it skills, the damn thing knows more than I do and has snatched my proper post away each time I tried to enter it. I will assure everyone extinction, Putin's style is not on the divorce table yet, however...........

XXN30 has made an interesting observation in another recent thread of mine regarding the census;

But I thought they do not share census information?? 3rd party opinions on census information constitutes as sharing information to me but not too them.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm glad this topic has reached the census thread.

Nine countries sharing information about how religion is going down the pan.. Nice

reply to post by eight bits


Ah the scholastic idiocy of atheism being called a religion. Once more, a single position isn't a religion or a belief system. Just as a tree is not a forest, atheism is not a religion.

Of course, you might as well keep asserting the silly notion that atheism is a religion. I guess that means Roman Catholics belong to a host of religions known as: Theism, Trinitarianism, Transubstantiationism, etc....

Theism, not a religion. Atheism, not a religion. Both can be components of a religion, but neither are religions in and of themselves.

I'd hate to get into yet another failed attempt for you to recognize the entire lack of argument on your side, so I'm just going to leave it there.

Hallelujah!!

The mundane, visible part, of existence exists through and by things 'relating' to other things. 'Absolutes' are constructed concepts, always based on relative canvasses (if I'm wrong here, please inform me), whereas actual 'truth' in reality is an approximate phenomenon fitting more or less well with the chosen canvass. Absolute 'truths' often being completely incompatible in/with different canvass-contexts.

One relative reality, one 'canvass', is the general human behaviour of choosing from pragmatic considerations related to simple survival needs/drives. There is not much 'deep', 'logic', 'rational', 'informed', 'religious', 'philosophical', 'theological' etc. implications in this, it's a question of having food, shelter, safety, getting laid and similar. In a society of generally high living standard also including finding a somewhat higher position in the social hierarchy through having a bigger house, car, income or adaption to social ideal-norms than your neighbour.

Such simplistically-based pragmatism already exists in a few nations, where religion IS regarded as meaningless, useless or even destructive, and where religious adherence is nominal and only used ceremonially. This social development is, for good or bad (depending on one's 'canvass') not only restricted to active religion, but also to other ideologies, such as politics. The less energy and resources spent on imagined, often confrontational ideology, the higher living standard.

Once such a social process has started, it will be self-reinforcing, as it appeals to basics in mankind. So I seriously doubt, if any of the coming generations of the 'rich' nations will be especially interested in exchanging their comfortable lives and their e.g. electronic toys for the flag, the cross, the half-moon etc. unless a genuine threat manifsts or they are brainwashed into ideological positions.

As secularism and political middle-positions further this consumerism society, methodologies such as science/logic will be on the 'winning' side, and the emerging new idealistic ideologies will be about how to get rid of the waste from consumerism (e.g. by recycling it). 'Demanding' religions (such as repentance for sinners) are not 'relevant' any more, except for a dwindling minority choosing it from personal mindset reasons.

Predicting a decline in religion isn't that much of a guess.

This is not a surprise to those who are following this prophetic event. Matter of fact we've been watching this event for a while now.

The markers that the scriptures said to look for are now appearing so vividly.

But for sure - to all of those who profess to be religious or who profess to be Christians or believe in God, will be tested to the full. If they are really true Christians and true servants of God their faith and loyalty will be tested to the full. There's no hiding it!

As we've been saying for a while now - the political leaders of the world will be the ones who will eventually turn against religion. The writing on the wall is now clear - religion is losing power and its influenced among the masses. It's no longer regarded as a moral authority because of all the things done by it's leaders, members and the things done in the name of religion (God/Allah). People are waking up to this and seeing that instead of being a force for good (false) religion has become the source of world conflicts and abused around the world (inspite of the many aids it provided in times of disaster). Alarming is that more and more people will leave the churches in the coming days/years which will alarm (if not already) the political rulers of the danger associating themselves with them. They will come to the same conclusion (if not already) that the power is now shifting to the masses. The influnce of religion to pacify the masses is no longer effective. So to keep their power they will have no choice but to turn against religion - and take on full authority. They will discard them like a "prostitute".

In fact, this is how God (YHWH) view (false) religion - as a "prostitute" because of their meddling in politics and loving the things that belong to the world. They enriched themselves from the masses and became drunk with power and elevated man's political organization (U.N) as an expresion of God's will.

This is also in line with another prophecy:

“Whenever it is that they are saying: “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape.” (1 Thessalonians 5:3)

As it turns out the U.N. peace and security organization is praparing for this (if not already). As everyone is aware of the preservation of world 'Peace and Security" is its main goal. So it will not come as a surprise if this become one of the BIGGEST issues that will come up in the future. But right now religion is becoming (if not already) a threat to world peace and security. So again it would not come as a surprise if they turn against religion and use the "cry" or decleration of "peace and security" as the main reason. Will the masses agree? You be the judge.

For sure when that time comes - anyone who profess to be religious or who profess to be a follower of Christ or who belong to a church will have to prove his loyalty publicly. It will be a dark time indeed when it comes but there will be protection for the faithful. As promised, God (YHWH/Jehovah/Yahweh) will protect his faithful people - like in Noah's time, Lot -sodom and gomorah and the destruction of unfaithful Jerusalem (607 b.c.e./ 70 c.e.).

Right now, people are being conditioned not to feel sorry for the demise of religion - more and more people are expressing their disgust of religion. ATS alone contains a large number of people who want religion gone. Due to scientific advancement - many are convinced that there's no God. Athiesm is on the rise and religious conflicts (bet Christendom and Islam) are on the rise.

Another factor that's conditioning the masses to this eventual fulfilment is morality. From young ones to adult, morality is no longer the norm. A huge number of young adults the world over lack morality - they see life as if there no real value. And see the future as bleak due to world conditions and events.On this the major religious organizations of the world has failed miserably. Instead of educating their members, they use them for political and social campaigns. Sad part is they failed to educate their members with regards to "SIN". Matter of fact this word, "SIN" is now a taboo. Good is bad - bad is good - even amongst the religious leaders. Many of the old faithful generation are dying and new ones are not that interested - they occasionaly attend the churches on special occasions or because of traditions or just to belong. No real power in changing ones lives. In other words, it's a fascade, a showy display. A very small minority remains who recognized that there's such a thing as SIN and believe that those who WILLFULLY practice it will be judge accordingly.

So it's not surprising at all that it is happening - it's one of the MARKER! This is also a warning to religious leaders, that because of their neglect, teaching traditions of men instead of the word of God - not only God (who they claim to serve and worship) but their members aslo will not protect nor defend them when the political powers of the world will turn against them.

After that the next prophecy:

Her political lovers will lament her demise, declaring:

“Too bad, too bad, you great city, Babylon you strong city, because in one hour your judgment has arrived!” Likewise, big-business magnates, who made dishonest profits with her, will “weep and mourn, saying, ‘Too bad, too bad . . . because in one hour such great riches have been devastated!’”—Revelation 18:9-17.

Yes - "too bad, too bad" for there will be no more religious holidays and celibrations to make business, to buy and sell. "Too bad, too bad" for the magnificient church buildings - no more will they be decorated not be built.

So what will you do when that time comes? What about now?

lastly:

“. . . Gather yourselves together, yes, do the gathering, O nation not paling in shame. Before [the] statute gives birth to [anything], [before the] day has passed by just like chaff, before there comes upon YOU people the burning anger of Jehovah, before there comes upon YOU the day of Jehovah’s anger, seek Jehovah, all YOU meek ones of the earth, who have practiced His own judicial decision. Seek righteousness, seek meekness. Probably YOU may be concealed in the day of Jehovah’s anger.” (Zephaniah 2:1-3)



thx,
edmc2



BTW - here's another thread that was created a while back by someone that is related to this subject:
www.abovetopsecret.com...