West in "medieval Crusade", Putin

Back to Putin. They say he's running for president again. Isn't that against Russians constitution? Anyone know how he'll get around that? He's obviously looking to bring back the Soviet Union.

It's been a lot fun. Talk to you all real soon.

Peace comrade. I miss the Cold War. Tell your buddy to pick up the pace.

Originally posted by USAisSatanic
Putin should know better , I did not expect this of him , this war is nothing but a blood sacrifice to Moloch .Iraq and Libya war on march 19 . CIA destabilises Libya and then they can Ghaddafi a dictator ,butcher ,bah ,Obama and Bush are butchers .

Bush even use to give hand signs of Satan. and they call Ghaddafi evil .

the world is so twisted that Satan USA calls itself good and for people and those who follow word of God as evil,backward ,rag heads .

Putin you disappoint me , I was hoping that you will the purifier of USA by deep frying it in thermonuclear fire . You shame me Putin ,shame me

edit on 21-3-2011 by USAisSatanic because: (no reason given)

So the USA is evil, yet Putin in your eyes is aloud to nuke the USA because they and the UN are evening out the field in Libya? are you all there mate? Russia would hate to be on the end of an American assault.

reply to post by JerryB08


Putin will yet again become President......and you better believe it!

OHHH Its clear as day

Russia backs Gaddafi, they even helped him spread his Propaganda that Gaddafi "wasn't" killing & bombing his own people with Russian built Mig jet, his air defence system the tomahawks hit the other day was also Russian so are his helicopters i could go on all day, hell even the majority of oil company's Russian in Libya

Russia backs the murdering of innocent people protesting for there freedom rights & democracy, i feel so sorry for thos people and saddened that when all the middle eastern nations have finished there uprisings and gain there freedom & democratic change the only one who will be stuck with a brutal murderous dictator will be Libya and it will be all your fault the people of Libya missed that chance

Crusade? 70% maybe more... of the west is not religious any more and has dropped religion so where's this Christian army i ask my Putin ?

All you are doing is supporting a madman killing his own people who want to be free, you are now trying to divide & confuse people further with your wild claims of a holy war & a crusade, you are doing nothing for the world with tho sort of statements, statements like that only serve in keeping the world divided and ignorant of each other and puts the world firmly in reverse gear, you should be ashamed of your self, the world is a different place to what it was 1000 years ago come on really is there any hope for a better tomorrow with people like this still about including Mr Gaddafi ?

reply to post by iforget


It's also the name of a Yes album. I'm sure they're real pleased about that.

There is no crusade. Human rights were being trampled, people being killed by their own leaders. Putin did nothing to stop it. He should be ashamed of his position. He should be helping the West, instead of watching the innocent die.

Cowards stand idly by and watch women and children slaughtered by dictators.

Originally posted by BRITWARRIOR
Russia backs Gaddafi, they even helped him spread his Propaganda that Gaddafi "wasn't" killing & bombing his own people with Russian built Mig jet, his air defence system the tomahawks hit the other day was also Russian so are his helicopters i could go on all day, hell even the majority of oil company's Russian in Libya

Most of that equipment dates to the Soviet era. It is not like US is not supplying arms and military support to some of the worst dictators in the world (Saudi Arabia for instance). Look at what equipment Mubarak used to defend his stay in power in Egypt.

Originally posted by BRITWARRIOR
Russia backs the murdering of innocent people protesting for there freedom rights & democracy

So if Russia opposed pointless bombing by NATO which is unlikely to lead to a reduction in civilian casualties, it supports Gadhafi's actions? Clever reasoning there champ. Russian government never expressed support for Gadhafi - it simply reasoned that this is a civil war that the West should stay out of.

Originally posted by BRITWARRIOR
when all the middle eastern nations have finished there uprisings and gain there freedom & democratic change

What makes you think that the current dictators won't be replaced by other dictators? This has happened before you know. Look at Iran.

Originally posted by BRITWARRIOR
Crusade? 70% maybe more... of the west is not religious any more and has dropped religion so where's this Christian army i ask my Putin ?

The term "Crusade" need not have a religious conotation. Simply one of idealism and a sense that one is morally superior to others.

Originally posted by BRITWARRIOR
All you are doing is supporting a madman killing his own people who want to be free

Thats what civil wars are like. Should the US play a role in every civil war in the world now?

Funny that Russia could have blocked the UN resolution and didn't do so. Putin should have said something before it passed!

Originally posted by Vio1ion
Funny that Russia could have blocked the UN resolution and didn't do so. Putin should have said something before it passed!

I believe there was a specific reason
why they abstained. We'll probably
get the bigger picture later.

And I swear I think Putin reads ATS
cuz I compared America's actions
to the crusades 2-3 days ago in a thread
and here's Putin saying the same thing.

Hey Putin are you out there comrade ???
Welcome to ATS !!!

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Vio1ion
Funny that Russia could have blocked the UN resolution and didn't do so. Putin should have said something before it passed!

I believe there was a specific reason
why they abstained. We'll probably
get the bigger picture later.

Socialism.

From Qaddafi's Green Book;

The intricate problem in the case of democracy is reflected in the nature of the instrument of government, which is demonstrated by conflicts of classes, parties and individuals. The elections and plebiscites were invented to cover the failure of these unsuccessful experiments to solve this problem. The solution lies in finding an instrument of government other than those which are subject to conflict and which represent only one faction of society; that is to say, an instrument of government which is not a party class, sect or a tribe, but an instrument of government which is the people as a whole. In other words, we seek an instrument of government which neither represents the people nor speaks in their name.

There can be no representation in lieu of the people and representation is fraud. If such an instrument can be found, then the problem is solved and true popular democracy is realized. Thus, humankind would have terminated the eras of tyranny and dictatorships, and replaced them with the authority of the people.

THE GREEN BOOK presents the ultimate solution to the problem of the instrument of government, and indicates for the masses the path upon which they can advance from the age of dictatorship to that of genuine democracy.
www.mathaba.net...

The ultimate solution lies in abolishing the wage-system, emancipating people from its bondage and reverting to the natural laws which defined relationships before the emergence of classes, forms of governments and man-made laws. These natural rules are the only measures that ought to govern human relations.

These natural rules have produced natural socialism based on equality among the components of economic production, and have maintained public consumption almost equal to natural production among individuals. The exploitation of man by man and the possession by some individuals of more of the general wealth than their needs required is a manifest departure from the natural rule and the beginning of distortion and corruption in the life of the human community. It heralds the start of the exploitative society.

Income is an imperative need for man. In a socialist society, it should not be in the form of wages from any source or charity from any one. In this society, there are no wage-earners, but only partners. One's income is a private matter and should either be managed privately to meet one's needs or be a share from a production process of which one is an essential component. It should not be a wage in return for production.

The new socialist society is but a dialectical outcome of the unjust relationships prevailing in the world today. The new socialist society will introduce the natural solution - privately-owned property to satisfy one's needs without exploitation, and collective property in which the producers are partners replacing private enterprise, which is based on the production of others without recognizing their right to a just share of the product.
www.mathaba.net...

The struggle for authority happens within the group itself down to the level of the family, as was explained in Part 1 of THE GREEN BOOK: The Political Axis of the Third Universal Theory. A group movement is a nation's movement for its own interests. By virtue of its national structure, each group has common social needs which must be collectively satisfied. These needs are in no way individualistic; they are collective needs, rights, demands, or objectives of a nation which are linked by a single ethos. That is why these movements are called national movements. Contemporary national liberation movements are themselves social movements; they will not come to an end before every group is liberated from the domination of another group. The world is now passing through one of the regular cycles of the movement of history, namely, the social struggle in support of nationalism.
www.mathaba.net...

Ah, the irony!

According to British author and former MP George Tremlett, Libyan children "spend two hours a week studying the book" as part of their curriculum; extracts are broadcast every day on television and radio; its slogans are found on billboards and painted on buildings in Libya;
en.wikipedia.org...

The worm turned! Hypocritic social control through propagandist mind control has bit Qaddafi in the bum!

Pretty much everything done has been to save Libyan lives. The Libyan rebels had no way to oppose Qaddafi's air power and tank columns. When Qaddafi heard about the UN resolution, he tried to make a quick push into Benghazi with his tanks and threatened no mercy to any person, man woman or child, in the city. He thought he would only have a limited time to retake the city and turn it into rubble, and completely demoralize its population into surrendering, before the UN airstrikes would hit. He was on his way to the city when his tanks and troop carriers were destroyed. By slamming the tank column, the Western forces saved Benghazi and the lives of thousands in it.

This is not a Christian crusade and that suggestion is ridiculous considering the secular nature of England and France. Putin is just trying to make the US look bad... what did he think a no-fly-zone entailed? He abstained from a vote that he easily could have voted no on. The UN joint powers enforcing a no-fly zone and destroying Libyan military targets is not an occupation force. Qaddafi was the person attempting to slaughter Benghazi's civilians, the UN forces are there to protect them.

It's funny that people don't believe that this is a real uprising. Qaddafi was panicking with the other uprisings going on and he knew he was next. Why do you think he loaded up on weapons (See Link: Russia announces Libya arms deal worth $1.8bn) right before the conflict broke out? He knew his people were tired of his authoritarian rule.

At this point I think it is obvious that humanitarian reasons motivated the US to go into Libya. Those who are not convinced are clearly ideological and there is no convincing them:

Originally posted by USAisSatanic
Putin you disappoint me , I was hoping that you will the purifier of USA by deep frying it in thermonuclear fire . You shame me Putin ,shame me

Showing your true colors there, are we?Some man of God you are, advocating the deaths of millions of civilians by nuclear war.

There will not be a WWIII over this. Russia can't do anything about this situation but spread propaganda saying the no-fly-zone is ineffective... when it is clearly effective. So Russia is trying to say it's a crusade now. If it is really a crusade, would it make sense that the Arab League would vote yes on it?

Russian propaganda + ideological fanatics =

Originally posted by Albastion
When Qaddafi heard about the UN resolution, he tried to make a quick push into Benghazi with his tanks and threatened no mercy to any person, man woman or child, in the city.

I am very eager to learn how you came by
this info. do you have any links I can look at ?
thanks

reply to post by boondock-saint


Gaddafi threatens attacks as no-fly zone decision nears

Gaddafi went on national radio to announce that he could unleash his forces on the eastern Libyan city in a matter of hours. Those Libyans who had not surrendered their weapons by then would face harsh punishment and could expect no mercy, he said.
...
'All military and civilian air and sea vessels in the Mediterranean Sea will become targets of the Libyan retaliation,' a spokesperson for the military told Libyan media.

Watching the video of Qaddafi's address, skip to 11 minutes 40 seconds and you can see a live shot of Benghazi. Those people are clearly not going anywhere. They would have been annihilated by Qaddafi's tanks by refusing to leave. By blowing up the tanks, the UN forces stopped a total massacre, it would have been a bloodbath and there would have been massive loss of life. Those people would not have just left or given up, as you can clearly tell by the nature of their rally in the video I have linked to below. These people all would have been slaughtered by heavy artillery. The tank column was literally on its way to attack Benghazi and all the people in it when it was destroyed by UN air strikes.


I have transposed the English translation of Qaddafi's full address to the Libyan public below. If someone wants to provide a better translation please do it. I don't speak Arabic.

Gaddafi addresses Benghazi residents

We will come to risk, and we will find those who have posed so much damage to our country. They can run away, they can go to Egypt, or wherever they want to go. But the traitors, who are agents for the west and America and the UK, the Europeans and Americans won't be able to say anything to defend those traitors. They would like us to lose our honor and dignity, those criminals who have been released out of prison, those drug addicts and murderers, they got them out and they gave them... they handed them weapons and let them out on the streets to fight with them. And those are [...] I get calls from families... get thousands of calls from families in Benghazi asking for help, asking for someone to rescue them. It is as if the old Islamic history is repeating itself where people are asking for help and that the calls for assistance has to come from us. These are the last few hours of this tragedy. They want us to become like Somalia. We are a very rich nation, we are a wealthy nation. They stopped the flow of oil so that we can start begging, they stopped the great artificial river so that people will die out of thirst. Tomorrow there will be no electricity. They don't really care about the future of our country whether Benghazi dies or lives. They are turning our country to become as poor as Somalia and then bring foreign colonizing powers. They cut off communications, electricity, water, and we would surrender our honor to them, our dignity. What a shame!

Those who would surrender their weapons and would join our sides, we are the people of Libya. Those who would surrender their weapons and would come in without their arms, we would forgive them, and would have amnesty for those who put down their weapons. And we will collect those weapons from the streets. Anyone who throws his arms away and stays at home would be protected and I tell them, you and your family, throw away your gun and stay at home. But we will search each and every flat and house, and if we find weapons in those flats and residences, we would consider them enemies. They are attempting to destroy you. Leave your weapons outside and go into your homes and shut your doors. Cross over to the main squares of the city of Benghazi as a free man. Whom are you defending using artillery and weapons? Who would bring those dead back to life? Whom are you defending? You have been fooled, you have been taken advantage of. Throw away your weapon, and we will collect all of these weapons, and you are safe. They are using you as scapegoats. You will be the victims. Our people there, the elderly, and all the population in the city. Do not allow weapons into your homes. Not all these areas, the entrances to the city of Benghazi, we shoot. Leave your weapons out and find yourself an escape. Throw away your arms and find a way out of the city, and then you are saved. Those young men have been taken advantage of. Those infidels who are attempting to burn down our country to the ground. We should have no mercy on them.

Those are the traitors. Use and abused by those infidels from Qatar, unfortunately, and Kuwait, and other gulf countries. How stupid can you become, to allow yourself be taken advantage of to that extent in Benghazi. Now you are hungry, thirsty. We don't have a natural disaster like the one that happened in Japan recently, thank God, we have everything, we have our natural resources, but those traitors have been taking advantage of us. Those infidels and traitors we will have to deal with, we promise to deal with. But the peaceful individuals of our people should remain, whether they want to stay at home or go out to the squares, but they should put down their weapons, throw away their weapons. There is no danger, they should not feel unsafe. There is no single officer in Benghazi who did not call us who had been warning us that they have been threatened by people like Zarqawi of being slaughtered. Those who have been forced to follow those infidels, they have been forced to, those also will be forgiven, will be granted amnesty. Those are my children, and we should not leave those children to distort the image of our country after such a bright history.

You have been forced except those who were under compulsion, but who had faith in their heart. One of the companions of the prophets, Yessuped Amar(?), who has been tortured, who was forced to say he did not believe in the prophet, Muhammad of Islam, and he could not face the prophet afterwards. And the prophet told him later, do not worry, the prophet has forgiven you, except those who were forced to say or confess or utter things that were against their hearts. Those who were forced to say things, you were forced to say those things against your people, against myself, you are my children. And those in the special forces, the officers, the free officers of this country, you have sworn to defend the Great Revolution of September. Defy the enemies, we are coming to your rescue. We will turn the sad and somber situation into celebrations. We will wipe out this black page of our history, all those honest, brave officers, members of the revolutionary committees, and university students, and female revolutionary committees, get pretty, rebel against the infidels and the traitors. The world needs to see those tomorrow, they need to see that Benghazi is a free city; it is not a city of traitors.

Benghazi I have liberated myself with my gun back in 1969 in the September revolution. We cannot believe the people who would see from one city to the other. Destroy any fortified points that you can get to. And if they run away, you take their weapons and you take control and you take charge of the city. The same thing applies to the rest of the population. The Shawazi(?) tribes, the Jawazeel(?), those are brave tribes, we have been proud of. They have an honorable history before the whole world. Let the world witness one more good deed. From tonight, those who escape, those who fled, those who decide to flee, you take their weapons, you keep them safe. Do not let these people fool you, killing eachother. Is it possible, each plane that flies, crashes... is that real? Can that happen? There is a cemetary that has been bombed. Is that possible? How could you bomb a cemetery, you are bombing dead people. Your grandparents are buried there, how could you bomb the remains? These planes are supposed to be the breaking Palestine, or confront the new crusaders, who are coming to colonize our country. Is it possible, is it real, that our planes are fighting eachother? All the living people should surround the traitors and attack them to take control, to take charge. There is no way out. This is our destiny. What indicates to us about this current enemy, and their existence, where are they, where are they hiding, in what room? The shooting... they are able to tell you that a plane has hit B[?] where I live, B[?] has been the center of celebrations. They said that the pilot has died trying to attack B[?]. These are rumors, and they are spreading lies on television and radio stations. These are all lies, and they are so desperate, and there is nothing else that they know or can say. They are over, they are finished, whether they have cars or donkeys, they are finished, they are wiped out.

Tomorrow, we will find only our people, the young Libyan people, the children, you will all go out and cleanse the city of Benghazi. A small problem that has become an international issue, and they are voting on it tonight. Because they are determined, as I sit, we are determined as they have said, we will track them down and search for them alley by alley, road by road, the Libyan people all together will be crawling out. Massive waves of people will be crawling down to rescue the people of Benghazi who are calling out for help, and they are asking us to rescue them! We should run to the rescue, we should run to their help, and me, Muammar Qaddafi, I will die for my people. With the God's help. No more fear, no more hesitation, we are no longer reluctant, the moment of truth has come. If you see the cars carrying loudspeakers, destroy them. Destroy the broadcasting stations. Those are the ones that are telling lies to you, and they tell you, come and see the pilots who have surrendered themselves, come and see the plane that we have shot down. They are lying! Our children, they are the ones who have destroyed these planes.

Just like the Franco (Francisco Franco) in Spain who rolled into Madrid with external support and they asked, how did you manage to liberate Madrid? He said, there was a fifth column, the people of the city, those, the fifth column, you are the fifth column within the city! This is the day which we should liberate the city. We have been looking forward to this day. And tomorrow, we will communicate again, and our crew will continue programs in the south. And with our bare chest and bare heads we are confronting the dangers facing the challenge. We did not initiate this violence; they started it. Of course, these words will have an impact on the traitors and the infidels, those that tonight they will panic, and they will collapse. You are capable of doing it, you are capable of achieving it. Let's set our women and girls free of those gangsters, those infidels, and those traitors. God is great.