Solutions to assist Japan. FROM OUT OF BOX THINKERS.

reply to post by ripcontrol


MIT, Cal-Tech, Berkley.... Cancel their Funding?

well i think it is pretty much beyond salvage, the Japanese have been understating the damage to the Reactors from the beginning, they claim it's a level 5 so we know it's actually at level 7, the Japanese PM say'snot to be pessimestic, how about being realistic, if they would come out and say we just can't stop the problem, maybe the rest of the world would devise a solution, but they keep stating it's under control.

Originally posted by Brainiac
reply to post by Illustronic

 

Exactly, 2011.

1. No one No Government is going to suggest Nuking the "Nuclear Reactors" the whole point is to prevent the spread of Nuclear Fallout.

2. Everything they have tried seems to have failed, and i think even if they manage to get power hooked up to the Reactors, which if they can manage to do that would be amazing, since to me the Reactors look like they've pretty much blown up...

The other Nuclear Accidents had one thing in their favor, for the most part the Reactors hadn't been subjected to an Earthquake or Giant Tidal Waves... Hmm...

I respectfully disagree. In fact, I'll wager the idea is on the table. If the problem gets any worse, you may find that there may be no choice. Look in the news for one of the reactors to "go critical" and explode, doing damage of course, but the "crisis" will be over, bittersweet. Reactors cannot explode like nukes, when you see that happen, you will know what they did.

The United States of America can airlifte 170,000 troops out of the United States of American to any part of the world in about 4 days. But they couldn't get 50,000 people out of New Orleans in three weeks. Same with Japan or anywhere else, if you are a civilian you are on your on.

ok i got one a monkey coud do :
1 dig around plant in a circle
2 tunnel under it
3 place explosives
4 blow explosives
plant goes down 4 stories
5 add coolent to circle around plan flood plant
6 send me an alian ware laptop for my genious and ill be happy to save you from the next one too

how about a controlled tsunami...drop some explosives in the ocean and have "blockers"in place to chute the water to the necessary areas..carve an area where you need water to collect and in flow and outflow trenches..im no engineer but im pretty sure they could accomplish this..i looked on google earth ans if a tsunami managed to get in land to do damage then the same way may be its salvation.

reply to post by Brainiac


It's beautiful to dream of such things, to extend the imagination to what "could be". These ideas and collaborations of thoughts by all on this thread tend to inspire confidence in finding a solution.
"Doomed Situation" is always a plausible outcome in "never before seen" catastrophes, but even in worst case scenarios such as the potential leak of high amounts of lethal radiation; where we find ourselves upon the precibus of destruction, the absolution of courageous acts become evident, and we find a way.

As we have before, we will persevere. I hope.

I don't know much on the subject,but what if they could build a concrete structure lined with 2 ft of lead and put the rods in it or so.Would that help?

reply to post by Illustronic

And how could any of this get to help a situation half the way across the world with no scope of technological specifications available? That's also out there close to Star Trek solutions.

How does NASA protect the environments against radioactivity for astronauts? What I mentioned is not a "Star Trek" solution at all. We have the technology.

During the 80's various "secret" contracts with American electronics businesses brought this technology into being because of the Cold War. We have shielded equipment that will work in an unstable nuclear/radioactive environment. Do you think the Stealth Bomber/Fighter would 'stop working' because of an EMP pulse or radioactivity?

Demron Fabric - anti radioactive suit (200 sent to Japan) www.radshield.com...

Ultra Low Power Microchip Radiation-Resistant, Ready For Space. sciencedaily ( Oct. 9, 2003) — A breakthrough for space technology achieved by the University ...
Link: www.sciencedaily.com...

Also
www.scientific.net...

Like I said, we have the technology - NOTHING Science Fiction about it.

reply to post by kroms33
It is ashame that those 200 suites will not go to the men inside the reactor, that are as good as dead, that have done all humanily possible. These will go to the Politicians that will be photographed out in front of the place about 20 miles away claiming they saved the day.

Dumping cement would help be one wants the job of doing it. Plus it would take a whole hell of a lot of Cement.

reply to post by coolottie


I agree. Sad isn't it?
I think that any country with atomic energy should be required to provide each and every citizen with one of these suits... I mean, we pay enough money in energy bills right? Why should we pay with our lives because they can't shut down a melting reactor?

On the web site, these suits are $1100USD...

The people inside that reactor - fighting to save Japan and the rest of the world from a catastrophe are heroes.

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


I keep thinking of the robotic snake cam they were going to use to search in the rubble. What if you had a robotic fire hose that could crawl through the wreckage directly to the reactor or containment pools. It seems to me that they are going to have equipment that wants electricity but the line may have been severed by.the explosions. One of these carrying an electrical line could crawl up past the break and "bite" on to deliver an electrical connection.




these irrigation devices are self propelled and able to walk over the crops if they were taller they could walk right over the plant and spray water


Most importantly why not get something in there to collect the radioactive dust before it disburses!!!!!!!!!

Reach over/into the plant with an offshore construction crane and suspend a giant "tent" over the parts of the plant producing dust and filter as much of it out that you can.

reply to post by Brainiac


First, 'they' are not trying to get their damaged nuclear facility 'back in operational capacity'. That's ludicrous! It's done, gone, it's now a failed nuclear power plant.

(On other boards I could read different posts while I reply, I cannot here, which is why I may post so much on a particular thread, because I'm not a computer mind).

I may backup a couple of pages, but I now have a nice glass of scotch on hand, and it has been a sleep deprivation work week for me so I offer no promises. I only understand enough that most of these suggestions are not realistic, today.

We can all envision a 'perfect world society' but in trying to achieve such a state of 'nirvana' , you also thwart the the very factor of the free human instinctive impulse to discover. It separates us from the ape. Because we can learn from yesterday, tell your friend what you want for breakfast tomorrow, all with the opposable thumb that facilitates you to be able to use tools you invent.

By getting the Media to leave it alone so they can be left to clean up without having the comfortable side of the world watch and screaming at them to clean it up as if it were as easy as a snap of the fingers. It adds unneeded pressure on both the government as the world watches, a small mistake and they bring out the pitchforks in fury, and to leave the people in the shelters alone for them to recuperate.

How about building an air tight shell over the area and pumping out all the air. Since the rods get extremely hot when in contact with the air this might allow them to cool quickly. If it does not bring down temp fast enough pump coolant into the structure. Once cool enter in through air lock and begin clean up process potentially with remote control bulldozers, and robots. I realize that building such a structure would be very difficult, but it might be possible to build one out of thin metallic sheets such as gold foil like space craft that went to the moon. As long as it is far enough from high heat it just might be possible.

Just sayin...

reply to post by MischeviousElf


Yes, why is every fire engine in the country not there? Maybe they do not want to stop this thing from melting down at all. Has anyone ever considered that?
Also, have you noticed that one by one after another there has been a massive disaster involving our main energy generating sources. To show us how dangerous our old ways are? WHO could be doing this?

The natural temperature is absolute zero, -270 some degrees below zero celsius. Heat is created as a by product of imperfect energy conversion. This means that you can add heat, but you cannot add 'cool'. In order to cool down, the heat must be removed and transfered to a medium, moved to a heat exchanger to move that heat to a different medium, and the medium returned to the reactor core. This means that simply freezing the uranium, dropping icecubes into it, dropping the reactor in a cold climate won't work. Without circulation of a medium capable of absorbing the heat from the core, the core will just heat up the medium.

As for radiation hardened electronics, it does exist, but space is nowhere near as hostile an envirunment as the inside of an atomic reator. Radiation litterally cuts the pathways inside the chips to pieces, or knock electrons off their path. Even radiation hardened electronics would be in an environment much more hostile than it was designed for.

If we really wanted a quick and dirty option to buy us more time before a permanent solution must be found, perhaps this could be achieved. Design a simple open-top quadratic steel structure to fit around a reactor building. The structure would have water containers on the inside, industrial strength heat exchangers, water connections and wind turbines on the outside. This design could be done in a few days, and turned over to a south korean shipyard to build in a week.

A helicopter deposits a layer of sand around the reactor building and the structure is placed around the reactor by several large helicopters. Then water is pumped in through the connections from the outside, and helicopters dump water into the structure.

Result, Water is contained, uraniumfuel is under water, wind turbines power the water circulation and heat exchangers remove the heat from the water. The bonus is that the people working on the power plant can focus on the other reactors, atleast for a short time.

Solution:

The way to cool these reactors would be to do the following: Remember, these reactors are “dead” and need to be cooled and capped.

1. Construct a temporary 'bladder' around the building, higher than the melting rods using waterproof materials.
2. Inject water – filling the bladder system completely.
3. Use the ocean water to maintain safe level of water to cool reactor core and spent fuel rods. (this process would lower the level of radiation so that workers could be able to begin to cap the reactors). Additional cooling methods such as using liquid nitrogen to cool the water could also be used to speed up the cooling process.
4. Once the reactors in question have achieved stability they can begin filling bladder and reactor core/spent fuel rod containment units with sand and concrete.
5. The reactors that have been entombed by sand and concrete should be sealed off by a lead shielding to prevent any further environmental damage.

That would work. The problem is constructing the 'bladder' around the reactors. With the high levels of radiation, workers would not last long at all unless they were equipped with proper Demron anti-radiation suits.

Also, I don't see why the Demron suits couldn't be applied to robots to protect their electronics.

All of these ideas that require large structures to be built will probably not work. Engineering a massive structure is difficult enough without doing it in a hostile radioactive environment. In fact it's quite impossible. For any solution to be viable, it needs to be utilized with material and logistics that are already on hand. Possibly being used for some other completely unrelated purpose. A controlled nuke fits the requirement, but if that seems too drastic, there may be other avenues. I can't remember who said it, but another tsunami might be just the ticket. Whatever is done, it will have to be on that kind of scale.

they should pour 50 tons of potassium iodide on it so it can block the sodium iodine