Was ISKCON's Swami Prabhupada murdered by Devotees?

page: 1
3
<<   2 >>

log in

join

posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 08:43 PM
link   
Just recently, while searching for some nice mantra chanting on Youtube, I came across material that really shocked and baffled me.
It appears that for some reason former members of ISKCON and individual devotees accuse certain gurus of poisoning Srila Prabhupada!
For those unfamiliar with A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada - he journeyed to the US from India in 1965 and founded the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (as a fairly elderly man).
He is held in high regard to this day, and Krishna temples adorn and wash his statue.
I know there was a split after he his death in 1977, and infighting amongst his appointed gurus led to mass defections from the official movement.
There were also molestation and child-abuse scandals in ISCKON schools, for which the movement had to compensate victims millions, and made apologies (not like any religion is innocent in that respect).
Many conspiracy theorists also find aspects of Prabhupada's teachings revealing on global conspiracy, and find in his sermons references to the faking of the moon landing, reptilian races, alien identities and many other issues.

However, I have never heard that Prabhupada himself may have been murdered; perhaps for power from his closest gurus (whom he allegedly began to criticize as being corrupt), and possibly to shut him up on many issues.
The devotees here know absolutely nothing about this, neither from the "he was poisoned" or the "he was not poisoned" groups.

I will paste some clips that disturbed me, and hope people can fill me in on this further, because the biographies omit it entirely.

"Was the poison in the milk?"
edit on 15-3-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)


Guru confronted with killing Prabhupada:

Well, guilty or not, but the guru replies rather un-guru-like at one point!
edit on 15-3-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 08:59 PM
link   
Prabhupada "Tortured and Poisoned to death by Judas disciples - agents of sinister Illuminati":
www.prabhupada.org.uk...
Well, it probably happened to a few Popes, so it's probably not that rare?

In fairness, the official position that post-death analyses of hair and so forth refutes the poisoning theory:
www.oldchakra.com...
edit on 15-3-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 09:12 PM
link   
i had a few friends who were Hare Krishnas, living in temples at times in their lives and doing work etc. so i have a slight knowledge of Prabhupads interpretation of Vaishnavism but wow, i had never heard that theory . that first video is very interesting to say the least if true! on the outside he was a pretty old man who used most of his waking hours to work hard so it wouldnt seem out of the ordinary that he would eventually pass. but there was much to gain from his death being ISKCON is a pretty huge worldwide organization.

if you havent, you should check out the Book Monkey on a Stick. i read it years ago after familiarizing myself with the Swamis interpretations on the traditional books and i have to say it did turn me off to the whole idea. its pretty much about all the in fighting of Prabhupads main disciples fifghting over who gets what not to mention drugs, theft and even child molestation.



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 09:20 PM
link   
Thanks for the reply:
Two more clips in favor of the poison conspiracy (in fact something like that is hushed elsewhere, but it's explained more like a mercy killing - well, still murder). I must add that it irks me somewhat to show a death scenario of such a great man, but how else can one deny ignorance?


I'm not quite sure of the following clip, which seems to refer to Prabhupada's knowledge of one specific devotee (?) having designs on his life. I'm not sure why it is in reverse, or where the phrases are taken from. Guess it has esoteric meaning for those in the know.
edit on 15-3-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 09:46 PM
link   
Whatever the case, the devotees I've met are all wonderful, truly committed people, and together with the Hindu community in South Africa they feed thousands of poor, hungry people vegetarian meals every week.
The legacy of Srila Prabhupada lives on, no matter what scandals may have transpired.
I'm not sure of the top structures however, and know very little on them.
It surprised me to spot some gurus in their robes wearing big flashy watches. Although they are not anti-material things as such, that did strike me as a contradiction.
I guess it's like everywhere else - a true spiritual movement will be corrupted, possibly with deliberate agents, and human nature does the rest for them.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 12:53 AM
link   
In the second clip of my OP post (guru confronted/accused of killing Prabupada) the activist with the camera is eventually removed by police and told to go in another direction.
Why is this the case, when the Westboro sect seem to have so much freedom of speech?
What exactly is he doing differently or wrong?
Just wondering.
edit on 17-3-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 05:43 AM
link   
interesting story...
but for me there are some important details missing.
i want to hear real personal testimonies.. who was the first person to suspect he was murdred, and why?,, what have they been doing since?? How many similarly "involved" members suspect he was murdered? etc

The videos were too obnoxious for me. I'd prefer something more substantial and less cryptic than what you have provided so far.
At the moment im not buying it... apparently the toxicology results prove he was not poisoned. but I will also add that no official cause of death has been detailed here either..

furthermore
if he was murdered, and people found out, it would cause greater interest and greater exposure to the teachings "they" considered dangerous...

"kill Guru, kill self"

what the expletive does that mean!??

if my own research is fruitless ill be watching curiously to see if someone else can provide something more substantial than we have currently.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 12:55 PM
link   
reply to post by EmeraldGreen
 

Yes, more info would be great.
Of course I can only say that the conspiracy exists, but not whether it is true or not (which is why the thread is titled as a question).
I guess toxicology reports are only as good as the poisons they specifically test for, so I'm sure there are many non-Western poisons that wouldn't show up on standard tests.
"Kill guru; kill self" - in my interpretation this was spoken by Prabhupada to the guru, the allegation being that he knew this was the ring leader of a plot to murder him. It was a warning of the Karmic effects of killing Prabhupada - by killing his guru (Prabhupada) the killer would in turn be killed (either in this life, or another). Similarly devotees believe that anyone who slaughters a cow is really slaughtering himself, because it is only a matter of time until they will be reborn as a cow and be slaughtered. At least that's what the agitator in the second clip seems to imply.
This guy thinks he's speaking to the killer of his guru - so yeah, understandably he's pretty obnoxious.
It may be worth watching the clips on Youtube, because they have interesting comments underneath them, especially the second clip, and at least one implies that the rumors of the murder circulated in the ISKCON community for quite some time, and that the the manner in which the guru speaks is not the style of a genuine guru.
Usually they don't speak out, and loathe to answer questions on the succession struggle following Prabhupada's death (and the guru-puja issue), or another murder involving a guru called Jayathirta beheading a devotee. In my experience they claim not to know about their movement's scandals, although they never look really surprised to hear of it.



posted on Mar, 20 2011 @ 01:14 PM
link   
I don't think Prabhupada was murdered, but it wouldn't suprise me. The continuing hoax in Iskcon is the Guru succession. Prabhupada never authorised any Guru(s) to take his place when he passed on. He never authorized any "guru by vote" system, which is in place now. Iskcon has deviated and removed Prabhupada as diksha Guru, and replaced him with a big racket, of many so-called Gurus being voted into place. The only system Prabhupada initiated was the Ritvik system, in which new devotees were initiated on behalf of Prabhupada, and this system was to continue on forever. Now Iskcon has many deviant Gurus, some self-proclaimed and conflict and competion with one another, and their main goal now is just to make money by making fictional stories with God and demi-God characters, and Hinduizing the Iskcon temples to accomodate demigod worship. iskconirm.com lays it out.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 11:10 AM
link   
I guess this topic isn't cared about, or known about by most people, and hasn't been replied much to. It's understandable. I was a Hare Krishna monk in the early 90's at New Vrindaban. This guru hoax is very interesting, and the splits and guru shanangins is very interesting, sad too, how a movement that was so great, has fallen so low, because of the criminal usurpers.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 11:59 AM
link   
Interesting segments from the biography: Prabhupada: He built a house in which the whole world can live by Satsvararupa Dasa Goswami. The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust: 1983.
The book does not describe any outright conspiracy, and describes Prabhupada's death in Vrndavana (I assume the town in India where Krishna performed his pastimes) as devotional and liberating. It also does not describe much on internal politics and any bitterness or factionalism between the devotees, or Prabhupada and his devotees. Nevertheless, there are some strange hints of a conspiracy. While "deathly ill" Prabhupada told a devotee "This will happen to you too" ("kill guru; kill self", or a general reference to death?). His eventual refusal to drink is described as a sign that he tired of his body, and the whole chapter "The last instruction" is quite interesting. His devotee Kirtananda wanted him on a liquid diet, but Prabhupada insisted on solid food before making a kind of apology for sometimes being too harsh, and using words like "rascals" (pp. 386-387).
Nevertheless, bearing a possible conspiracy in mind (and the scandals of child-abuse and factionalism which followed Prabhupada's death, with which the narrative ends) it has some interesting passages.
These concern mainly the ending, where Prabhupada became an increasing social critic with the translation of the Srimad Bhagavatam. These views went beyond already strong teachings on the godlessness of nuclear weapons, rampant sexual degradation and vicious animal slaughter. Goswami writes:

Prabhpada's writings also combatted the false teachings of bogus yogis, gurus and "incarnations," who had appeared like a tidal wave of falsity in Kali-yuga, both in India and the West. His writings criticized modern political institutions also, analyzing why monarchs fell, why democracy was also failing, and how dictatorship would increasingly harass the citizens. The governments' policies of abusive taxation and their propaganda to bring people to the cities to work in factories, abandoning simple, agrarian life, were all discussed in the light of scriptures....Prabhupada's criticisms were strong and authoritative ... he was not a timid scholar pointing out some obscure historical references.
(P.335.)
The first notable incident was a car crash in Mauritius, a largely Hindu island that the Swami was touring en route to oblige an invitation to Africa. A van drove straight into the car carrying the Swami and his entourage. There was a rather bizarre (or fortunate) exchange of seats before the time, and the Swami's life was saved by leaning on his walking-stick. It is described as an accident during which nobody was killed, but the effect on Prabhupada was significant, and it shook him considerably (in a conspiracy interpretation perhaps a bit much for a spiritual person facing a mere accident). He became intent on completing his translations, and less inclined to travel (cancelling his African visit), and some devotees did not want him to leave India.
We get some insight from quoted conversation (my highlights):

Suddenly Prabhupada spoke. "There's a very big conspiracy against us." "By the church?" guessed Dr. Patel. "Not the church," said Prabuhpada. "By the society?" Prabhupada uttered a thoughtful "Hmm," then added , "Now they are determined to cut down this movement." He didn't give any details, and neither Dr. Patel nor the others could draw out what was on his mind.
(P.344.)
edit on 1-4-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 12:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by tom502
I guess this topic isn't cared about, or known about by most people, and hasn't been replied much to. It's understandable. I was a Hare Krishna monk in the early 90's at New Vrindaban. This guru hoax is very interesting, and the splits and guru shanangins is very interesting, sad too, how a movement that was so great, has fallen so low, because of the criminal usurpers.

I certainly never got the impression that they were a "low" movement when I met them as a student.
I still don't.
In my experience they had already evolved somewhat, and there was less focus on gaining devotees to live in ashrams (it was actually quite hard to get a place in one). Rather the focus was on families and room-mate devotees to hold down jobs, live as householders and attend congregational services. It was very integrated into society.
However SA has a large Hindu population (originally brought as indentured laborers in the 19th century to work Natal's sugar-cane fields), so Bhakti Yoga was already somewhat established before ISKCON.
There was no special boarding school or closed communities.
So maybe the potential for abuse and false teachings by individual "gurus" wasn't really possible.

Goswami describes the Western devotees as Prabhupada's "children", many of whom had just left the counter-culture.
They had to grow up very quickly following his death, and obviously some were not ready.
Added to this perhaps is the problem of being a fringe group in a mostly disapproving Western society, and the in-group mentality this creates.
However, the "vultures" obsessed with money were there, already in the Swami's lifetime.
Some temples petitioned him to sell jewelery and other business shenanigans. However, he insisted they only sell devotional books. The devotees I met only sold books, and some trinkets like incense and devotional CDs.
I see that some of the Youtube contributers who support the murder conspiracy sell a range of general conspiracy items. Perhaps they create the conspiracy to sell products? Also a possibility.
The fact is that Prabhupada himself believed there was a conspiracy (see above quote).
It would seem from descriptions that if he was murdered, perhaps old age meant he left with little resistance, or as a martyr resigned to his fate (either way, it is believed his fate was liberation into the spiritual world).
Of course the NWO are quick to co-opt any movement or counter-culture, but for me that does not undermine the spiritual nature of his teachings for the well-intentioned devotee.
edit on 1-4-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 02:30 PM
link   
The above conversation between Dr. Patel and Prabhupada (Bombay January 9, 1977) on p. 344 continues in a fascinating manner.
Dr. Patel is described as an "Indophile" and replies that whatever conspiracy Prabhupada is alluding to will not threaten him in India. The Dr. is in a group of doctors and lawyers.
Yet, Prabhupada was not universally welcomed in India.
For political reasons Indira Ghandi only gave the Swami a short audience (despite her apparent personal approval of the Swami and his teachings).
There were seemingly visa issues concerning Western devotees.
(Some Indians were already concerned that they were swamped by Western hippies, and they did not immediately see a difference with ISKCON devotees. Some propaganda films falsely depicted the devotees as pot smoking libertines intent on corrupting India's youth.)
Indian modernists and communists did not like the return to traditional beliefs, or the idea of re-converting India to Vaishnavism with Western devotees.
ISKCON not only argued against "atheistic science", but also against the impersonalist stream in Hinduism (although never dismissing it) and some "fake" gurus.
Even in the 1990s I saw arguments between followers of Sai Baba and devotees.
All this came not too long after "partition" between Hindustan and Muslim Pakistan, in which the NWO (I believe) prompted religion to cause much slaughter.

So for me, this is where the metaphor of "snake" becomes relevant, as it is used in the second clip.
For a believer in reincarnation across species calling somebody an animal has specific meaning.
Snakes are usually and traditionally respected in India. In some festivals they are even fed.
However, the bad part of the snake consciousness is that it can creep into your own dwelling and bite you in your sleep.
Of course the problem with all this is that there are so many possibilities, and the finger-pointing can dishearten falsely accused genuine devotees. But that kind of confused disorder is perhaps what was intended.

P.S. The car accident in Mauritius is described by Goswami:

One day Prabhupada was leaving to take a ride in the countryside, but as he was about to enter the car on the right side, Pusta Krsna Swami suggested, "Srila Prabhpada, come to the other side. It's safer." And Prabhpada complied. ... At one point, they stopped and walked along a cliff beside the sea. When they returned to the car, Brahmananda Swami opened the right-side door and Prabhupada said, "No, the other side is safer," just as Pusta Krsna had previously suggested.
A few minutes later, as Prabhupada's black Citroen was rounding a curve, a Volkswagen suddenly appeared, heading toward them in the same lane. ...
(P.326.)
edit on 1-4-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 03:33 PM
link   
Why the above exchange of seats?
Well, not to be sarcastic, but it's not the only car accident that subsequently befell a bean-spilling celebrity who predicted a conspiracy on their lives.
Prabhupada completed the translation on his beloved Srimad Bhagavatam.
His ideas and mantra are known all over the world, even where people combine them with personal beliefs.
They no longer belong to any "movement".
Considering that spirituality wanes in our final cyclical age of the Kali-Yuga (the age of quarrel and hypocrisy), perhaps over-all, in that respect he would be pleased.
edit on 1-4-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 03:21 PM
link   
reply to post by halfoldman
 

How ominous: "The other side is safer".
Luckily Prabuphada trusted one person more than another.
Since he refused to swop seats again, that trust was not misplaced.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 10:58 AM
link   
I think the Swami would agree if I posted the Maha-Mantra, sung by the devotees and George Harrison:

edit on 31-5-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 01:57 PM
link   
A devastating clip for ISCKON, in which the "fake gurus" who allegedly hijacked ISKCON after 1977 are accused of murdering devotees and other crimes (let alone sins) or turning a blind eye to them. Some became fat like pigs, while others lived double lives in hotels and mansions outside the temple.

The Srila Prabhupada murder charges are discussed from about 24 minutes into the clip.

The $400 million child molestation charges under the "false guru" rule effectively bankrupted the organization.

Religious punishment for false gurus includes a planet where people are repeatedly thrown off mountains without dying, or a planet of hot copper that is painfully hot to any touch. After being in this hellish state for a long, long time, they must begin spiritual evolution through the species again, perhaps as an earthly bacteria or worm.

It's a pretty devastating litany of accusations and warnings of hell for the current gurus.
The criticism stems from within the Krishna Consciousness paradigm, and it's about accusations of internal corruption, rather than inter-faith accusations.

I'm not sure all these accusations are correct, or how much the majority of gurus really had to do with child molestation and financial corruption. Some gurus clearly lost the plot and were expelled.
However, this is not seen as morally good enough for some critics.

Since the "death" of Srila Prabhupapda, many former members clearly felt very betrayed.
There are allegations of poisoning; child abuse; illicit sex; drug abuse and financial siphoning into personal accounts:

Some of the views of hell presented here make Christianity's horrors of hell pale in comparison.


edit on 25-3-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 02:16 PM
link   
A rebuttal to the anti-guru clip above.
A former guru and psychologist gives his view (notably in classic guru style):




posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 10:26 PM
link   
The first video is very disturbing. I've been to Hare Krishna temples and I have always liked the Hare Krishnas. If one is interested in things "far east" they are an especially interesting group.

It is sad to see Swami Prabhupada looking so frail. He is very composed, however.

If the voice asking about the poison is truly there in the room and truly referring to poison about to be administered to the Swami, then that is a disturbing revelation, to be sure. What could be going on? Is Doctor Kervorkian just out of view in the scene? Is it a Kervorkian-style example of assisted suicide? Has the Swami consented to this, or requested it?

The clip begs a lot of questions.

I've read Monkey on a Stick. It is an interesting story. I have no way of knowing how much of it is true, but I'm willing to believe that the story is substantially true and can be verified. It is a little like the "biography" of a rock band. A lot of stories are told. Are they all, literally, exactly, completely, true?

The 1970s was a very odd time. 1960s "idealism" was pretty much in the dumper by the mid 1970s.

I spent a couple of nights in the Hare Krishna temple in Amsterdam during that period. Quick impressions: nice, very sincere people, the top guy was an American, I believe, who looked blissed/stoned (?) out of his gourd and told me what a lucky "boy" I was to have landed there. (I was 27 at the time.) Met two other American "Krishnas" there who were unusual, both had worked in the media in the states, one for the Johnny Carson show in some capacity and the other was an independant film-maker who got strung out on heroin in India and went to the Himalayas to kick the habit, eventually winding up in Amsterdam at the temple. (The former addict was nice, the Carson guy was a pushy sales type. They wanted me to stay at the temple permanently.) Vondel Park is nice. It was fun to watch the "Carson" guy asking older Dutch businessmen for "all" their money.


That was a long time ago.

One of the funny little things in Blade Runner was the scene where the drumming, chanting, Hare Krishnas wind their way along the sidewalk in LA of the future.

That people who are sincerely into the message of Swami Prabhupada continue to practice and to purify their hearts and minds, is all that really matters.

Thanks for the thread, though, to the OP. It is an interesting topic. Something to ponder.
edit on 27-3-2012 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 11:39 PM
link   
reply to post by ipsedixit
 

Thanks for the fascinating post!

For more information on ISKCON dramas and the poisoning allegations see the PADA - Prabhupada Anti-Defamation Association: www.harekrsna.org...
It also has links to more literature.
This page refers to the poisoning specifically: www.harekrsna.org...

Once again I must add that I'm not sure if all these allegations are true, and how many people in ISKCON were involved.
edit on 27-3-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)





new topics

top topics



 
3
<<   2 >>

log in

join