It's Official: Wisconsin Gov. Walker Signs Bill Taking Away Public Worker Collective Bargaining Rig

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
let them strike.....all that happened with this legislation is the eradication of a known criminal organization that has done nothing but lie, cheat and extort. Good riddens~

Source for "known criminal organization" please. I keep hearing this but haven't seen the proof.

Originally posted by Sestias
reply to post by HaveAnotherOne

 

Not all teachers make 75k a year, a lot has to do with their seniority.

And do you really think 75k is that much to support a whole family? I mean, all they do is have the future of the next generation of Americans in their hands, right? Who wants to pay for that, right?

(again, sarcasm alert)

They're doing a piss poor job of educating the next generation of Americans. 81% of schools in Wisconsin are failing NCLB. They may get passing grades for teaching em how to skip school and whine and cry and run off when they don't get their way that's for sure. Idiots.

reply to post by Whereweheaded


If you have evidence of criminal activity, take it to the District Attorney. Please, for the good of all of us, let's not let organized crime stay functional!

...Oh, what's that? No evidence? Nothing pointing towards criminal activity? Empty partisan rhetoric? Oh. Why is your food hole open then?

reply to post by HoldTheBeans


Wisconsin is ranked #2 out of all 50 states in SAT scores.
xenophilius.wordpress.com...
blog.bestandworststates.com...

For those who want to learn, the teachers are doing a hell of a job. A teacher cannot make a kid come to class or force them to learn.

YOU KNOW THAT.

reply to post by PsykoOps

Source for "known criminal organization" please. I keep hearing this but haven't seen the proof.

How about: ORGANIZED CRIME AND THE LABOR UNIONS
PREPARED FOR THE WHITE HOUSE IN 1978.
Source: www.americanmafia.com...

A majority of the locals in most major cities of the United States in the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT), Hotel and Restaurant Employees Union (HRE), Laborers International Union of North America (Laborers), and International Longshoreman's Association (ILA) unions are completely dominated by organized crime.

The officials of these unions are firmly entrenched; there is little hope of removing them by a free election process.

AUD Conference: Confronting Corruption in Labor Unions.
Source: www.uniondemocracy.org...
On October 14th, 2006 AUD held a one-day conference to assess fifty years of efforts by unionists and government agencies to drive out the mob and rid unions of corruption. The conference was held at the City University of New York and co-sponsored by the Center for Urban Research, and Building Bridges: Your Community and Labor Report. Thanks to Ken Nash and Mimi Rosenberg of Building Bridges, over the next month or two, we will post the complete audio.

PsykoOps, I have tired to shared with you how Organized Crime as infiltrated the Labor Unions in America.

So they're all corrupt and evil and must be taken down? So by that logic one walmart owner who cheats on taxes makes them all criminal.

First off, there is not a public school teacher in this nation who makes $75k a year. Not one. I've pointed out the duplicitous efforts by a few... deeply misinformed people in this regard, where they are double-counting pensions and trying to pretend you can use benefits to buy groceries. The average teacher income is ~$24k a year, with an increasing gradient that, in some well-off districts, can reach $40k a year with 25 years experience - solid middle class wages.

If you think that's a lot of money, that's probably because you're one of the hundreds of thousands of Americans who think $20k is baseline middle class. You're actually poor. Sorry, you've been had.

Originally posted by HoldTheBeans
They're doing a piss poor job of educating the next generation of Americans.

Do you think YOU could do a better job teaching six classes of students, average of 35 students per class, with an average of one hour for each group? Honest question. I know I couldn't. Even if they were all perfectly behaved (which as ANYONE who has ever gone to school knows, is not the case) that's 210 kids - and you have an average of an hour a day, sometimes less, to teach each group of them?

Do you think you could do this on $27k a year? Do you think you could do that on $27k a year, with lots of "your" time taken up by unpaid work? Really, you have to go through and grade 210 kids' worth of tests, classwork, and homework, during your own time. That's not counting the time you have to spend developing lesson plans (unpaid time) or attending training or workshops (usually unpaid, sometimes half-time if you're lucky) or the 3-4 months of the year where you're not getting ANY income.

C'mon, do you think YOU could be the educator / babysitter for these 210 kids, and do it effectively, on so little pay for so much work? You think you could? Well, okay. Here's a school administrator. He's telling you that you need to set aside all your lesson plans, and teach these kids - all 210 of them - how to fill in bubbles on the upcoming test. Why? 'Cause he gets a bonus if they ace it (you don't). So you have to set aside the books and lessons and spend your day telling them the same #2 pencil, fill the bubble completely garbage that they already know. oh, and if you dare try to teach anything not found in the approved textbooks, you can be "corrected," up to and including docked pay.

And did I mention harassment from parents who demand to know why their child is not getting A+ on everything in your class? You are of course not allowed to point out that the reason their son does poorly is 'cause he spends gym period getting high and is otherwise a useless little dumbass who will probably die in a McDonalds deep fryer. So you end up having to accept their blame and abuse.

Still think you could crank out 210 little Einsteins every year, Beans?

81% of schools in Wisconsin are failing NCLB.

Because NCLB is designed that way. Seriously, man, it's there to provide a method of privatizing schools, NOT helping them! That's why when schools do poorly, NCLB punishes them, making things worse, rather than actually helping them out!

They may get passing grades for teaching em how to skip school and whine and cry and run off when they don't get their way that's for sure. Idiots.

That's because they have to put up with harassment from parents who just can't understand that little Billy's dumber than moss, and it's probably genetic. Pair that up with voters who demand teachers be fired if their dumb-as-moss children don't get excellent grades, and what kind of situation is being set up? Screw it, little Billy gets his A+.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
First off, there is not a public school teacher in this nation who makes $75k a year. Not one. I've pointed out the duplicitous efforts by a few... deeply misinformed people in this regard, where they are double-counting pensions and trying to pretend you can use benefits to buy groceries. The average teacher income is ~$24k a year, with an increasing gradient that, in some well-off districts, can reach $40k a year with 25 years experience - solid middle class wages.

What in the hell are you talking about? 24k per year average? 100% wrong.
Teacherportal.com link to average salaries.

Notice only a few of them are under 40k per year and 14 of them are over 50k per year AVERAGE. Notice that is salary, not total compensation package.

The 100 highest-paid teachers in Illinois have salaries ranging from $142,310 to $766,372:. Salaries for teachers vary widely. According to one newspaper report in 2003, Leepertown School District in Bureau County has the lowest pay in the state, with an average teacher's salary of $24,616, while District 211, a high school district in Palatine, Schaumburg and Hoffman Estates, is at the top of the list with an average teacher salary of $87,407, most for nine or ten months of work.

Source

You sure there is not a single public school teacher making over 75k per year?

There are more than you can count.

Pulling numbers out of thin air only gets you humiliated, you should try to stay away from it.

Originally posted by HaveAnotherOne

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
First off, there is not a public school teacher in this nation who makes $75k a year. Not one. I've pointed out the duplicitous efforts by a few... deeply misinformed people in this regard, where they are double-counting pensions and trying to pretend you can use benefits to buy groceries. The average teacher income is ~$24k a year, with an increasing gradient that, in some well-off districts, can reach $40k a year with 25 years experience - solid middle class wages.

What in the hell are you talking about? 24k per year average? 100% wrong.
Teacherportal.com link to average salaries.

Notice only a few of them are under 40k per year and 14 of them are over 50k per year AVERAGE. Notice that is salary, not total compensation package.

The 100 highest-paid teachers in Illinois have salaries ranging from $142,310 to $766,372:. Salaries for teachers vary widely. According to one newspaper report in 2003, Leepertown School District in Bureau County has the lowest pay in the state, with an average teacher's salary of $24,616, while District 211, a high school district in Palatine, Schaumburg and Hoffman Estates, is at the top of the list with an average teacher salary of $87,407, most for nine or ten months of work.

Source

You sure there is not a single public school teacher making over 75k per year?

There are more than you can count.

Pulling numbers out of thin air only gets you humiliated, you should try to stay away from it.

edit on 11-3-2011 by HaveAnotherOne because: (no reason given)

Thanks for the info. I wasn't pulling numbers out of thin air, but I'll take teacherportal's numbers over the source I'd been getting.

I'm not seeing $75k anywhere here, so the premise remains.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

...Oh, what's that? No evidence? Nothing pointing towards criminal activity? Empty partisan rhetoric? Oh. Why is your food hole open then?

You need evidence? Why are your fingers still typing?

Labor Racketeering.
Source: www.fbi.gov...
Labor racketeering is the domination, manipulation, and control of a labor movement in order to affect related businesses and industries. It can lead to the denial of workers’ rights and inflicts an economic loss on the workers, business, industry, insurer, or consumer.

The historical involvement of La Cosa Nostra in labor racketeering has been thoroughly documented:
More than one-third of the 58 members arrested in 1957 at the Apalachin conference in New York listed their employment as “labor” or “labor-management relations.”
Three major U.S. Senate investigations have documented La Cosa Nostra’s involvement in labor racketeering. One of these, the McClellan Committee, in the late-1950s, found systemic racketeering in both the International Brotherhood of Teamsters and the Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees International Union.

In 1986, the President’s Council on Organized Crime reported that five major unions—including the Teamsters and the Laborers International Union of North America—were dominated by organized crime.
In the early 1980s, former Gambino Family Boss Paul Castellano was overheard saying, “Our job is to run the unions.”

Labor racketeering has become one of La Cosa Nostra’s fundamental sources of profit, national power, and influence.

FBI investigations over the years have clearly demonstrated that labor racketeering costs the American public millions of dollars each year through increased labor costs that are eventually passed on to consumers.

Labor unions provide a rich source for organized criminal groups to exploit: their pension, welfare, and health funds. There are approximately 75,000 union locals in the U.S., and many of them maintain their own benefit funds. In the mid-1980s, the Teamsters controlled more than 1,000 funds with total assets of more than $9 billion.

Labor racketeers attempt to control health, welfare, and pension plans by offering “sweetheart” contracts, peaceful labor relations, and relaxed work rules to companies, or by rigging union elections.

Labor law violations occur primarily in large cities with both a strong industrial base and strong labor unions, like New York, Buffalo, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, and Philadelphia. These cities also have a large presence of organized crime figures.

There's a little information for you,,, I know you have a hard time reading, But try, there is more for you to learn.

reply to post by guohua


You've cited information that is, at the most recent, 20 years old, at the oldest 33, to point towards SOME union INDIVIDUALS, having some tie with the Italian Mafia, an organization that has been functionally extinct for almost as long as it's been since these reports are published.

My statement remains. if YOU have EVIDENCE of criminal activity, take it to your district attorney. They'd LOVE it if you did. Seriously, you have unions in your area. If they're criminal organizations, take it to the authorities. Don't post this decades-old rhetorical garbage on the internet. We're not talking about 1978 here.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


How about these sources: The Average Salary of a School Teacher in America
www.ehow.com...

Kindergarten and Elementary School Teachers According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average annual income for kindergarten and elementary school teachers in 2008 was $52,240. At least a bachelor's degree and formal state teacher certification is required to teach any grade in this range in the public school system. The median annual wages of elementary, middle, secondary and kindergarten teachers in 2008 was between $47,100 and $51,180.
Middle School Teachers According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average annual salary for middle school teachers in 2008 was $52,570. The lowest 10 percent of teachers in any grade earned an average salary between $30,970 and $34,280 in the same year. This lowest salary range is also similar to the average salary earned by beginning teachers with a bachelor's degree, which was $30,227 in 2005-2006 according to the American Federation of Teachers.
HIgh School Teachers According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, high school teachers earned an average annual salary of $54,390 in 2008. A bachelor's degree and teacher certification are required to teach public high school. The top 10 percent of teachers in all grades earned an average yearly salary between $75,190 and $80,970 as of May 2008.

Does this help?

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Yeah I asked for the proof also and got a blanket 'all unions are evil' response. So the cure for this would be to stop them completely instead of doing the logical thing which is to find the corrupt ones and charge them. Also stop them from functioning as intented. Not to mention that I have not seen any proof of these particular unions who lost their rights being corrupt.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


A simple Google search would've proved you wrong. That too difficult for you?

Here, I'll help. Click this link for google results for average teacher salary.

As for over 75k, try using the 2nd link in my above post. That is simply from the state of IL.

Please tell me you really aren't a teacher. If so, thats absolutely frightening.

Wouldn't it save a whole lot of money if we homeschooled our kids and take online classes? Let's put our children's education back to the parents. I'm game, anyone else?

reply to post by queenofsheba


We'd also save a lot of money by policing ourselves and putting out our own fires. You want to do that too?

i'm game. Sounds like anarchy but lets do it.

Wouldn't it save a whole lot of money if we homeschooled our kids and take online classes? Let's put our children's education back to the parents.

If both parents are working...homeschooling is a difficult option....unless you pay someone to do it which is kinda pointless. Your kid isn't going to learn unless he/she is trying/wants to. A teacher can't make someone learn.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Try MSU » MSU Libraries » Jon Harrison's Home Page » Criminal Justice Resources Resources » Organized Crime
staff.lib.msu.edu...

The Changing Face of Organized Crime In New Jersey : A Status Report
www.state.nj.us...
State of New Jersey Commission of Investigation, May 2004. Contents : Prohibition/Demand Paradox, Organized Crime and Corruption, Narcotics : the Ubiquitous Scourge, Asian Organized Crime, Eurasian Organized Crime, Cuban/Latino Organized Crime, Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs, and La Casa Nostra.
(Last checked 12/05/09)

Chicago Crime Commission
www.chicagocrimecommission.org...
The Chicago Crime Commission stands as one of the oldest and most respected citizen crime commissions in the nation. The Commission is dedicated to eliminating crime with programs that form coalitions with the business community and the public.
(Last checked 12/05/09)

Criminality in Labor Unions
Campus access
Off-Campus Access for MSU Students : Type in title in quick search box.
Efforts to clean up corruption-tainted unions and to expel criminal elements from their ranks have been given new urgency by the New York waterfront scandals. While criminal penetration of A.F.L. and C.I.O. affiliates is certainly not extensive, a series of disclosures during recent years has created mounting alarm among the top leaders of organized labor. Limited reforms after earlier investigations, and occasional convictions of labor racketeers, seem to have had no lasting effects. It is now recognized that, unless radical remedies are applied wherever corruption is found, serious and possibly permanent injury will be suffered by the whole labor movement. Article includes Multiple Exploitation by Racketering Unions, Labor Racketeering and the Law, and Self-Policing by Labor Organizations. H.B. Shaffer, Editorial Research Reports via CQ Researcher Archive, March 4, 1953.
(Last checked 12/05/09)

Declaring War on Organized Crime (Ronald Reagan, 1986)
www.thelaborers.net...
Waterfront extortion in New York City, mob wars in Philadelphia, threats against a Federal prosecutor in Cleveland and the families of F.B.I. agents, attempted bribery of State officials in Louisiana, protection rackets for bookmakers and pornographers in Los Angeles. And in places too numerous to mention all across America: piracy of union pension and welfare funds; toxic wastes spewed out along our highways, according to state investigators, and into our wildernesses; legitimate businesses fronting as fencing networks for thieves and hijackers; corruption of college athletes through sports-rigging schemes; an invisible tax on food purchases and construction costs imposed by illegal syndicates and paid for by American citizens. This is the face of organized crime in America in the 1980's; far more encompassing and wide-reaching than in the past, but in its essential characteristics not all that different from the face of organized crime a generation or two ago - a point on which I can cite personal experience. Like all too many Americans, I've seen the mob at work. Source : New York Times, January 12, 1986, Section 6; Page 26, Column 1.
(Last checked 12/05/09)

You know, I like that freedom of speech applies to the civilian populace, and not just the federal government.

We have this right thanks to the good fight fought by 'radicals' such as the Wobblies in the IWW labor union and the Georgists.

What about the 1950s - early 1970s, when unions were at their most prominent? Housing booms, low inflation, higher rates of students attending colleges, the gross national product rose by leaps and bounds along with the purchasing value of money. Unemployment was at record lows. In the 1970s, union power was cut (along with the last remaining scraps of American protectionist trade policies), and we, as a people, have been in economic decline ever since. The giants of the corporate world have only gotten bigger. This fact is also illustrated in the fact that countries with high union membership have some of the best performing economies. Part of this has to do with the fact that studies have shown that unionized industry has a higher productivity than non-unionized industry, along with lower employee turnover.

Unions, protectionist trade policies, and a government willing to judge economics based on the good of the people and not the bottom monetary line of big corporations is what makes a country thrive.

reply to post by David9176


Lots of people homeschool their kids with excellent results. See, people don't want to teach their kids and want to send them off to public school (free and free babysitter) but don't want to pay the teachers,,,hmmm...what's wrong with this picture?

reply to post by David9176


Exactly my point..if both parents are working. And why can't we live off a sustainable union wage (gasp-oh no the Union),..nah, lets all work for peanuts and leave the kids home alone. Mom and dad must work, work and work. Poor kids.