Originally posted by JimOberg
Regarding the case referenced in the Brit press here:
Can anybody find the necessary facts on date/time of the event so it can be compared with potential prosaic stimuli?
Date = 5 November 1990.
Time = About 18:00 Zulu and UK time, 19.00 dutch local time.
You probably know better than me (or can easily find out), but I note that the documents refer to a re-entry of a Gorizon/Proton rocket body (or,
according to another letter, the Russian Gorizont 21 communications satellite) in the atmosphere cross northern France and Germany around 6 to 6.30pm
[GMT] on the evening of 5 November 1990, i.e. the same date and time.
The former explanation was reportedly confirmed by the French Serivce for the Investigation of Re-Entry Phenomena (reported in the Glasgow Herald, 7
NB : One of the witnesses has denied that the sighting was caused by the re-entry.
Edit : After looking up the relevant documents, saving relevant snippets and posting the information below, I have just done a couple of Google
searches to see if there was additional information available to help you. As a result, I see that you had previously written about this incident,
and the re-entry, in some detail (so the time I spent dealing with your query was probably wasted...):
Here are two "test cases" that are illustrative: the November 5, 1990 re-entry of the Gorizont/Proton rocket body across northern France and Germany,
and (snip) Both events were observed by airline crews. Arguably, in both cases, the pilots over-interpreted their perceptions and subconsciously
introduced "deductions" and "conclusions" to shape their remembered perceptions.
For other members, I'll just quote part of the article you cite in the Guardian before giving further details:
UFO files: RAF tornado crew spotted UFO over North Sea
An RAF Tornado crew was so stunned when a UFO appeared in front of them they failed to lock radar on to it.
Though he described the plane as being as big as a Hercules it had a smaller wingspan and the engine exhaust had ''a light blue afterburner-type flame
which was steady but changing in intensity''.
Two other RAF fighter jets flying out from Laarbruch nearly collided head-on with the UFO and saw it at the same time, the pilot said.
''These aircraft would have been close to being head-on to the UFO, while from our Tornado, the UFO came down our right-hand side at a great speed
(ie, coming from the direction of the UK).
''We were doing 0.8 Mach and it readily overtook us.''
He went on: ''This was definitely not a Russian satellite - I am 100% certain of that.
''This was a large 'aircraft' and I could see the detail of the lights and the engine area.
I don't know if you have seen Dave Clarke's guide to the files at the link below:
It includes the following:
UFO sighting by RAF Tornado crew
File DEFE 24/2041 (p10, 11, 27 and 108) contains detailed discussion of a UFO sighting made by the crew of a RAF Tornado in Dutch airspace in November
1990. The report reveals the pilot suspected the object may have been a US Stealth fighter. The MoD did not investigate as the sighting took place
outside UK airspace. A possible explanation of the sighting could be the re-entry of a Russian rocket-body logged by RAF Fylingdales (see also DEFE
The relevant file is at the link below:
It includes quite a few pages on this incident, starting from a page or two into the file.
For ease of reference, I'll post below a few snippets.
FSR (Flying Saucer Review) article summarising event:
Snippet from letter to MOD from a researcher:
Orginal report regarding sighting:
Letter from MOD dated 29 October 2002 regarding time of sighting:
Article by David Clarke and Andy Roberts:
Edit: More on this sighting at:
In December 2005 we put this case to the well-known Canadian satellite expert Ted Molczan. He informed us that on November 3, 1990, the Gorizont 21
communications satellite was launched with a Proton rocket from the Baikonur space flight facility in Russia. About ten minutes after lift-off, the
third stage of the rocket was jettisoned. It was assigned the COSPAR identification number 1990-094C and NORAD identification number 20925.
Transcript of contemporaneous radio communications (with MP3 sound file of recording) at:
Recording date: November 5, 1990
Recording time: 18:00 UTC (19:00 hrs MET)
Recording duration: 3:17 min.
Frequency: 251.400 MHz (Dutch Mil Upper)
File: EHMC_Tornados.mp3 / EHMC_Tornados.ogg
"There's a very large aircraft, appears to be about across, a mile at our left side, at 150."
"Confirm at your left side?"
"It's behind us now, we just passed in front of it."
"Roger, there's no known traffic to me."
"I think, uh, it's uh very large with three lights and a very bright light at the back."
"It's enormous with three lights and it's shining down behind me now."
"Excellent, we've got it as well. Most odd."
"It's, uh, it looks like C-5 sort of size to me."
"It's much bigger, the lights are actually blinking."
Hope this helps.
You probably have direct contact with Dr David Clarke. I'd be happy to pass on any queries to Dave, or Andy Robert or any of the various other
researchers have done work on this case in the UK.
All the best,
edit on 4-3-2011 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)