Britain's latest batch of UFO files - March 2011

Originally posted by admriker444
I just dont get why this is news unless there is some massive revelation.

There are lots of other threads on ATS promising some massive revelation. None of them has panned out so far.

Such documents may not contain any massive revelation, but some of us find them interesting since they contain:
(a) reports of incidents that have not been seen by the public before,
(b) some additional information on known sightings,
(c) an insight into how government works (or doesn't work) when dealing with unusual problems.

Each of these items, particularly Item (c), may have nothing whatsoever to do with aliens...

Originally posted by IsaacKoi

Originally posted by admriker444
I just dont get why this is news unless there is some massive revelation.

There are lots of other threads on ATS promising some massive revelation. None of them has panned out so far.

Such documents may not contain any massive revelation, but some of us find them interesting since they contain:
(a) reports of incidents that have not been seen by the public before,
(b) some additional information on known sightings,
(c) an insight into how government works (or doesn't work) when dealing with unusual problems.

Each of these items, particularly Item (c), may have nothing whatsoever to do with aliens...

Oh I see

so cases we may not have heard about might lead investigators to look into it (maybe dig up something they left out). and goverment proceedures may show us how something this large might be covered up (thus showing us where to look)

if I got that right ?

Originally posted by admriker444
if I got that right ?

Basically, although the evidence may tend to disprove (rather than prove) a coverup and instead point to cock-ups and actions which helped generate conspiracy theories.

Originally posted by admriker444
whats the big deal ?

By the way, I think your view is echoed by the following headline on the website of the New York Times today regarding this release:

U.F.O. Data Released, Clearing Up Nothing

Well looks the the Mod gave us just as much as that infamous hacker Gary McKinnon did... let me make a list...



/end list...

Seems like it's just the usual load of crap, and I'm sick of the MOD and RAF. Just checked the BBC RSS page which I always have on, and this was on there just after the files were released I think, somewhere around the top 10 entries. So I went back to check just now and thought yeah, this will be right down the page by now, and it's not even on there at all. Less than 24 hours since it was made news, the RSS feed has over 80 items listed, and it's already been taken off it.

And some people think the UK government is more relaxed about UFO's? Or that we're being prepared for disclosure? Not by the looks of it.

Good post IsaacKoi

Originally posted by IsaacKoi
www.express.co.uk...

UFOS...THE TRUTH IS UP THERE

Floating mysteriously between the clouds, this orange-coloured disc sparked fears of extra-terrestrial activity.

The bizarre, fluorescent “doughnut” was spotted, photographed and reported to the Ministry of Defence by a retired RAF officer.

Although the UFO investigators declined to launch an inquiry – because the sighting was in Sri Lanka – they filed it away with other British “X-files”.

Details were published online yesterday in the latest batch from the files held by the National Archives in Kew, south-west London.

The unnamed ex-airman from Yorkshire saw the shape hanging in the sky near the city of Habarana, Sri Lanka, while on holiday seven years ago. After capturing it on camera, he sent it to former colleagues at RAF Fylingdales, North Yorkshire.

Here is the relevant image:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b6c17f757355.jpg[/atsimg]

This looks like an iridescent Altocumulus Lenticularis cloud

I've taken pics of similar clouds myself, like this one which I spotted late October last year here in the UK:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/25e8d10bc340.jpg[/atsimg]

Here are some more that I have found that look even more like the photo that the MOD released:


Source: Iridescent cloud spotted on 12 Aug 07


Source: The Cloud Appreciation Society


Source: The Cloud Appreciation Society


Source: The Cloud Appreciation Society


Source: The Cloud Appreciation Society

These are fascinating. Thanks for sharing

New Updates:

BBC WORLD NEWS AMERICA (VIDEO):
Investigating UFO Sightings - Bill Birnes on latest documents release and Rendlesham
news.bbc.co.uk...

The Unexplained (AUDIO) (credits to Proripp):
Interview with Nick Pope on latest documents release
www.theunexplained.tv...
theunexplained.tv...

MSNBC (VIDEO):
Britain releases thousands of UFO Files
www.msnbc.msn.com...

Best Wishes

Regarding the case referenced in the Brit press here:
www.telegraph.co.uk...

Can anybody find the necessary facts on date/time of the event so it can be compared with potential prosaic stimuli?

Originally posted by JimOberg
Regarding the case referenced in the Brit press here:
www.telegraph.co.uk...

Can anybody find the necessary facts on date/time of the event so it can be compared with potential prosaic stimuli?

Hi Jim

Date = 5 November 1990.
Time = About 18:00 Zulu and UK time, 19.00 dutch local time.

You probably know better than me (or can easily find out), but I note that the documents refer to a re-entry of a Gorizon/Proton rocket body (or, according to another letter, the Russian Gorizont 21 communications satellite) in the atmosphere cross northern France and Germany around 6 to 6.30pm [GMT] on the evening of 5 November 1990, i.e. the same date and time.

The former explanation was reportedly confirmed by the French Serivce for the Investigation of Re-Entry Phenomena (reported in the Glasgow Herald, 7 November 1990).

NB : One of the witnesses has denied that the sighting was caused by the re-entry.

Edit : After looking up the relevant documents, saving relevant snippets and posting the information below, I have just done a couple of Google searches to see if there was additional information available to help you. As a result, I see that you had previously written about this incident, and the re-entry, in some detail (so the time I spent dealing with your query was probably wasted...):

www.zipworld.com.au...

Here are two "test cases" that are illustrative: the November 5, 1990 re-entry of the Gorizont/Proton rocket body across northern France and Germany, and (snip) Both events were observed by airline crews. Arguably, in both cases, the pilots over-interpreted their perceptions and subconsciously introduced "deductions" and "conclusions" to shape their remembered perceptions.

For other members, I'll just quote part of the article you cite in the Guardian before giving further details:

www.telegraph.co.uk...

UFO files: RAF tornado crew spotted UFO over North Sea

An RAF Tornado crew was so stunned when a UFO appeared in front of them they failed to lock radar on to it.

Though he described the plane as being as big as a Hercules it had a smaller wingspan and the engine exhaust had ''a light blue afterburner-type flame which was steady but changing in intensity''.

Two other RAF fighter jets flying out from Laarbruch nearly collided head-on with the UFO and saw it at the same time, the pilot said.

''These aircraft would have been close to being head-on to the UFO, while from our Tornado, the UFO came down our right-hand side at a great speed (ie, coming from the direction of the UK).

''We were doing 0.8 Mach and it readily overtook us.''

He went on: ''This was definitely not a Russian satellite - I am 100% certain of that.

''This was a large 'aircraft' and I could see the detail of the lights and the engine area.

I don't know if you have seen Dave Clarke's guide to the files at the link below:
filestore.nationalarchives.gov.uk...

It includes the following:

UFO sighting by RAF Tornado crew
File DEFE 24/2041 (p10, 11, 27 and 108) contains detailed discussion of a UFO sighting made by the crew of a RAF Tornado in Dutch airspace in November 1990. The report reveals the pilot suspected the object may have been a US Stealth fighter. The MoD did not investigate as the sighting took place outside UK airspace. A possible explanation of the sighting could be the re-entry of a Russian rocket-body logged by RAF Fylingdales (see also DEFE 24/2027 p35).

The relevant file is at the link below:
filestore.nationalarchives.gov.uk...

It includes quite a few pages on this incident, starting from a page or two into the file.

For ease of reference, I'll post below a few snippets.

FSR (Flying Saucer Review) article summarising event:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1d65f2d044c0.jpg[/atsimg]

Snippet from letter to MOD from a researcher:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2917cbef7ec7.jpg[/atsimg]

Orginal report regarding sighting:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bd757cf834ef.jpg[/atsimg]

Letter from MOD dated 29 October 2002 regarding time of sighting:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c068b6177fcb.jpg[/atsimg]

Article by David Clarke and Andy Roberts:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f10bcaba188b.jpg[/atsimg]

Edit: More on this sighting at:
www.ufonet.nl...

In December 2005 we put this case to the well-known Canadian satellite expert Ted Molczan. He informed us that on November 3, 1990, the Gorizont 21 communications satellite was launched with a Proton rocket from the Baikonur space flight facility in Russia. About ten minutes after lift-off, the third stage of the rocket was jettisoned. It was assigned the COSPAR identification number 1990-094C and NORAD identification number 20925.

Transcript of contemporaneous radio communications (with MP3 sound file of recording) at:
www.ufonet.nl...

Recording date: November 5, 1990
Recording time: 18:00 UTC (19:00 hrs MET)
Recording duration: 3:17 min.
Frequency: 251.400 MHz (Dutch Mil Upper)
File: EHMC_Tornados.mp3 / EHMC_Tornados.ogg

(snip)
637C:
"There's a very large aircraft, appears to be about across, a mile at our left side, at 150."

Dutch Mil:
"Confirm at your left side?"

637C:
"It's behind us now, we just passed in front of it."

Dutch Mil:
"Roger, there's no known traffic to me."

603:
"I think, uh, it's uh very large with three lights and a very bright light at the back."

637C:
"It's enormous with three lights and it's shining down behind me now."

603:
"Excellent, we've got it as well. Most odd."

637C:
"It's, uh, it looks like C-5 sort of size to me."

603:
"It's much bigger, the lights are actually blinking."

Hope this helps.

You probably have direct contact with Dr David Clarke. I'd be happy to pass on any queries to Dave, or Andy Robert or any of the various other researchers have done work on this case in the UK.

All the best,

Isaac

I pretty much gave up on the MOD when I e-mailed them a while back. They didn't even reply directly and passed it on to the RAF to respond to :



I should've asked them if Nick Pope was just a pen pusher, might have at least got a laugh with the response. Will probably try asking them something else in the future. I've got a lot of respect for most of the people that work for the RAF, MOD, etc, it's just the leadership I can't get my head around. The people that make sure the type of response above is given to our questions.

Attaboy, Isaac -- exemplary work that sadly shows, by its absence EVERYWHERE ELSE, the incompetence of the mass media in properly covering this subject, and the disinclination of the pro-UFO websites to pursue prosaic explanations before eagerly swallowing another wonderful miracle tale.

As i posted on the other thread moments ago,

Thanks, Isaac -- I see that I carelessly misread the garbled new account to suggest there was some radar detection from the aircraft (without achieving target 'lock', quite another level of radar tracking).

So it's an old case in the body of evidence that on occasion pilots can be misled by their well-trained and safety-optimizing perceptual processes that enhance their survival but also generate, from 'bnoise', some spectacular pseudo-UFO reports. Yet those who argue from a desired conclusion must insist that pilots cannot be so easily fooled by aerial apparitions.

Originally posted by JimOberg
Attaboy, Isaac -- exemplary work that sadly shows, by its absence EVERYWHERE ELSE, the incompetence of the mass media in properly covering this subject,

But isn't virtually everyone - skeptic, debunker or believer - already pretty dismissive of the competence of the mass media in properly covering this subject?

This isn't really news to anyone, is it?

All the best,

Isaac

CIA documentation which discusses UFO reports in the context of "psychological warfare" have been mentioned by several people in various threads, so I thought I'd post a bit of information on these references.

Several of the new UK files contain copies of documents produced by the CIA and other agencies/entities in the USA. The material seems to have been printed off the Internet, either by the MOD itself or one of the various people that enclosed material in attempts to get the MOD to take a more active interest in UFO research. The main batch of material from the USA (which is duplicated in a few files) begins with several pages about www.majesticdocuments.com and the contributors to that website. See, for example, the copy which begins in DEFE-24-2026-1-1 at page 337 of the PDF at the link below:
filestore.nationalarchives.gov.uk...

The relevant references to UFO reports and "psychological warfare" appear in a memo dated 24 September 1952 to the Director of Central Intelligence from Marshall Chadwell. See, for example, the copy of the relevant page in DEFE-24-2026-1-1 at page 361 of the PDF at the same link, i.e.:
filestore.nationalarchives.gov.uk...

For those not familiar with this particular CIA document, on 24 September 1952 a memo from H Marshal Chadwell (CIA Assistant Director for Scientifc Intelligence) to CIA Director Walter Smith discussed CIA research and the national security implications of “the problem of ‘unidentified flying objects’, i.e. flying saucers”. Chadwell stated that he considered “this problem to be of such importance that it should be brought to the attention of the National Security Council in order that a community-wide coordinated effort towards its solution may be initiated”. That memo included the following:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/daaf419ef612.jpg[/atsimg]

While some of the coverage of the reference to "psychological warfare" in the CIA document included in the latest release in the UK implies that the document is a new revelation, it has in fact been available for quite a few years and has been discussed in several UFO books. Rather than post a long list of relevant books, I'll post a link below to a draft webpage relating to that memo which at the moment basically only includes the table of references to discussion of that memo in quite a few books. (The advantage of posting the link is simply that the contents of the table can be sorted by author, length of discussion and date).
www.isaackoi.com...

The UK files do not contain most of the CIA documents relating to this issue, which may be worth a separate thread (if time ever permits...).

All the best,

Isaac

Originally posted by IsaacKoi

Originally posted by Thunda

Originally posted by IsaacKoi
In fact, at least previous releases have included documentation relating to that incident.

Thanks for posting these- Part 4 seems to be 'damaged' in some way and I cant open it once downloaded- any ideas?

Mmm.

I've found another copy of Part 4 on another website:

www.crowdedskies.com...

Let me know if you have any problems with this copy. If so, I should have a PDF of the file at home so should be able to email it to you.

All the best,

Isaac

edit on 3-3-2011 by IsaacKoi because: (no reason given)

Thanks, Isaac- got it now,

Thunda

There's not long left to download the latest released files for free for anyone interested. I think they're supposed to be free for a month and they were released on the 2nd March, so not sure what's happening there. I just downloaded them though so it can still be done. They might be about to close the page though.

ufos.nationalarchives.gov.uk...

The size of the whole lot is 964mb....stupid pdfs.